Winter - Where Do They Go

[SWWASAS]

In the PNW geothermal might be an answer to winter survival.   There are quite a few active geothermal areas around our volcanoes.    Certainly lava tubes have a moderate temperature year round.    BF have had millennia to find natural warm shelters.     Even without such shelters, BF might do fine in the moderate climate of the PNW with temporary shelters to make it through the winter storms where it does snow any significant amount.    Those happen and then the snow level goes up in a few days.    Those of us who live here know that all you have to do to get out of snow is go to lower elevations.  Deer seem to have figured that out.       Having lived in Minnesota and North Dakota  I cannot even begin to explain BF survival there or anywhere in the upper Midwest.  

[Guest]

Just for the sake of argument lets say they (BF) have have cabins with wood stoves.    Now they have to go get wood to feed the wood stove where are the tracks?  They have to eat, where are the tracks from collecting food.   I think it would be impossible for the to stay incognito for long, track ways would be found and followed.   It just doesn't add up. 

 

Winter caloric intake has to be very high, you know how many dead moose in Alaska have been reported with BF tracks around them?  Zero to my knowledge.    Crude stick structures/shelters are just not going to cut it here in the winter to live in. 

[Terry]

The winter caloric intake requirements would require additional food gathering activity, and where are the telltale tracks of that activity?

 

It is a conundrum.

You can' make a living in the winter without leaving lots of sign.  Winter is the main reason I don't feel bf exists...at least in snow country.  Most excuses you read are from folks who don't understand the conditions and reality of a real winter.

 

t.

[Incorrigible1]

 

The winter caloric intake requirements would require additional food gathering activity, and where are the telltale tracks of that activity?

 

It is a conundrum.

You can' make a living in the winter without leaving lots of sign.  Winter is the main reason I don't feel bf exists...at least in snow country.  Most excuses you read are from folks who don't understand the conditions and reality of a real winter.

 

t.

 

More special pleading just doesn't cut it. It's damned tough out there, folks, in the dead of winter. Any creature would necessarily have to move about to gather the necessary daily calories, and that leaves sign. You cannot explain that away, easily.

 

Waiting for a sufficient theory, or explanation. Ain't hearing much.

[Kiwakwe]

A couple of trackways in ME from Bigfoot encounters, a conundrum nonetheless:

 

Gardner, Washington County, Maine 2005

Richard "****" Brown of Sidney, Maine and a Windigo researcher for 40 years reports the last tracks he found was on 12 January 2005. They were 1 mile north of Route 201 in Gardner, Maine. They measured 16" long, 7inches at toes. The stride was 7 ft. It was at 2:30 pm. The tracks went for a mile then I quit.

**** Brown via Ron Schaffner January 19, 2005

 

 

Sagadahoc County, Richmond, Maine
February 2000

On February 15, 2000 bigfoot investigator Richard Brown, while out looking for bigfoot sign, found two sets of tracks in Richmond, Maine. These tracks were about one mile apart, the first going east, it was a 16 inch track; these were just off the White Road in Richmond. The second set of tracks were also 16 inches; one mile away going west to White Road. Both sets a tracks were over a mile long.

Investigator Richard Brown

   

 

[FarArcher]

I'm guessing they have some deer and other food in natural cold storage.  Bring it into the cage and let it thaw. Yum

 

That would be my guess.  I never cease to be amazed at the number of caves and compact, covered crevasses in terrain you'd never believe would have any.

 

Caves are cool in the Summer, and assuming these things are not idiots, I can see them collecting and setting aside food stores enabling them to "hole up" in harsh winter conditions.  Deer meat for example, especially hind quarters will somewhat dry and preserve itself in cool dry conditions - and of course, they can take additional animals during winter.  

 

Animals often are more active just before storms, ripe for ambush hunting.  And when the storms come, they would eradicate most any signs made prior to the storm.

 

While there seems to be minimal tracks - I read many narratives where tracks were in fact left in the snow.  I think some Special Forces ran across tracks near Fort Carson, followed the tracks for a while, before they got a bad feeling, and then recalled they had no ammunition for their rifles - as it was a training traverse.  And rather than continue to track, they had a sudden change of heart.

 

It's a good question.  I think the answer is going to depend on how intelligent they are.  At best, we can only speculate.

[Incorrigible1]

We can speculate from now until the horizon, but there ain't no physical evidence. It's special pleading.

[Guest magnum peditum]

I don't consider PNW Winters as mild in the context of having to survive out in it. No it doesn't freeze at the lower elevations. And mostly thinking of Cascade Western foothills. But it's almost worse to be wet and in mid 40's. About this time of year it rains seemingly constantly. Just dreary, cold wet day after day. Windstorms, dark. It can be a challenge. I remember hearing that being wet and cold is about as bad as it gets in a survival situation.

[TritonTr196]

Some possibly connected points.  The speculation is all theory.

 

1.  I suggested a while back that they could maintain middens in their shelters that generate heat like compost piles.  To start with, a shelter could be built around a tree stump that is already beginning to rot, and then decaying vegetable matter, urine and feces could be added to the mix on a continuing basis.  With enough insulation, even snow over the wooden frame, the shelter could be maintained at a warm enough temperature to be comfortable.  Someone, I think it was Kathy Strain, made out a report a while back about what she interpreted to be a bigfoot shelter.  She described the bedding she found as layers of rotting vegetation, urine and feces.  This is consistent with the midden heating theory and goes a long way to explain the odor so often reported.

 

2.  I have found what appeared to be dismantled shelters in Northeastern Alabama and Northwestern Georgia.  A flat level area on the side of a draw with a stream below it with packed earth indicating extended use, and a tangle of logs, branches and other materials thrown down the slope toward the stream.  The tangled materials were not deadfall from trees that had grown in that area.  They had been moved there from somewhere else, presumably used to build the shelter, then dismantled and discarded down the slope.  There was no evidence of the use of axes or saws to cut the discarded branches and logs.

 

3.  The BFRO a few years back had an article on strangely decaying tree stumps that were found in the Sierras.  They were generally located in small cleared areas and could have been the basis for midden heating for shelters that had since been dismantled.  The accelerated decay shown was consistent with what one might expect in the center of midden pile.

 

4.  A couple of years ago someone posted on this forum a short video of a crude wooden structure of logs and branches.  It was shaped sort of like a very large pup tent from the angle shown in the video.  The person who filmed it had hiked to a high elevation during the first, rapid thaw of the early spring, and come upon the structure.  It still had patches of snow on it, but snow was clearly melting and dripping down through the open areas between the logs.  There was a sizeable plume of steam, but no smoke, emanating from the structure, so clearly the melting snow was falling on some source of heat inside of the structure.

 

5.  Edit to include one additional point:  There is a member on here that I've lost track of who told the following story, abbreviated here:  He was on a boy scout outing and against the instructions of the troop leaders, he and another scout took a canoe downstream into an area with rapids.  Their canoe capsized and he struck his head on a rock.  Unable to find him, his companion made it back to camp and a search ensued.  In the meantime, the injured scout had intermittent conscious moments where he recalled being picked up and carried, then a second one where he recalled regaining consciousness briefly, felt that he was laying on dry earth in a poorly lighted area with a warm current of air bearing a stench flowing past him, and observed a large, bare hair covered foot step past him.  He was later found on the bank of the river in the same spot from which he had disappeared, as if he had been returned to that same location once the search started.  He was taken back to camp and treated, but no one wanted to be near him because of the awful stench he had picked up on his body and clothing.

Hello JDL, the places you mention in #2 do you happen to live near these areas?

[BobbyO]

There are reports from both Alaska and British Columbia from the winter months so firstly there is recorded reports of them in the winter months in that part of the world and secondly, Alaska specifically wouldn't be the greatest place to debate "where do they go?" in winter due to its size, extreme weather and lack of people.

[Guest]

You are correct there are some winter sightings.

 

Alaska is big, for sure.  There are 5703 general aviation aircraft in Alaska (thanks Google).  There is a saying up here, that 10% of aircraft do 90% of the flying, I happen to agree.  That means 570 probably fly about 100 hours a year, some more.  The other 90% who knows, we won’t even count them.   I think 100 hours a year is a good average though.   That’s comes to 57,000 flight hours annually of general aviation pilots flying this state from one end to the other looking out the window as they go.   Most planes have at least 2 seats, that’s a second pair of eyes – looking out the window.   The see every kind of wildlife the state has, winter and summer.   I just don’t hear about BF sightings from the air, yes there have been a few, but not many.   How come?   It just doesn’t add up.   Law of averages pilots should have the bulk of reports.   Even though Alaska is vast, in reality not much of it is unseen.   A flight of 57,000 flight hours – looking out the window, cannot be shrugged off.   

 

There are reports summer/fall of BF sightings here.  But very little in the winter, there are some, but the vast majority is when snow is gone.  Where do BF go?   They go somewhere.  I would think mountain pass routes would be used and not climbing over the Alaska Range from the interior would be prudent.   Around 2800 feet is tree line in the central Alaska Range, if I was a BF I would not go above tree line you would be seen in very short order.   That leaves traveling in along rivers in riparian habitat south, or staying in the boreal forest for cover.  Checking the map, (thanks Google Earth) the Alaska Hwy does that very thing.   That could mean there should be more sightings on that route than others.   Ha, this BF stuff is easy.  I checked reported sightings along the Alaska Hwy vrs the rest of the state.   All I can report here is there is a conglomeration of web sites and reports and my head was spinning by the time I looked at two web sites.   I suspect, that theory doesn’t hold true.  

 

When you play the game of connect the dots at some point things should start to make sense and straight lines should appear.   Not the case here.    

[Yuchi1]

^^^ If there are sightings in summer/fall but no trackways found in winter, simple logic would dictate they hole up somewhere or, wear moose shoes in the snow.

[norseman]

I have seen tracks in snow as a boy with my father. Ive seen reports of trackways in snow. They are not very common, but neither is anything else concerning Sasquatch.

The only comparison I can make is to cougar hunting. A guy may go a month before cutting a good fresh set of cougar tracks to turn his dogs out on. cougars are rare and steady snowfall buries tracks quickly. Its not an easy game.

And I think Sasquatch is even more rare than a cougar.

I think the only possible scenario that works is that these creatures gather edible plants all summer and store it in a den. Come winter they crawl in. If tracks are found then something has gone wrong and they are moving to a different valley in search of food.

They cannot be searching far and wide for wild game to eat, otherwise they would like the cougar be eventually found. No I think the reason we dont see many Sasquatch tracks in winter is the same reason we dont see Bear tracks in winter. But as an Ape I do think Sasquatch must eat all winter long.

[Guest Cryptic Megafauna]

Hominids like apes can go into a light hibernation (as can we) 

I agree not lots of plants to eat in winter unless stealing nut catches from rodents.

The only large animals that move around are animals with feet modified to float on snow, and they are predators.

BF would sink up to his chest and expend too much energy for almost no food resources.

So either hibernate or move to lower elevations.

Edited February 15, 2016 by Cryptic Megafauna

[SWWASAS]

Those who pronounce there are no trackways in the winter have not looked from an airplane.    I have and they are out there.    There are trackways all over the back country in the winter.      The real problem is human access on the ground.   In the PNW   Forest roads are unplowed with gates locked shut in the winter.       To get there on the ground requires overland travel on skis or snowshoes.      The next good day I will take my airplane out in Skamania Country Washington and show you trackway pictures.   Tracks are all over the place, but getting there on the ground would require mounting a expedition of sorts because of road closures.   I looked at the famous Skookum Meadows area from the air once in the winter.   You probably could not get any closer than 50 miles in a vehicle.     But there were large bipedal tracks all over the area.   For those that do not know,   snowmobiles are only allowed in designated areas in the Gifford Pinchot National Forest.    They are prohibited everywhere else.     For a vehicle to operate on a National Forest road it has to be street legal.     Snowmobiles are not street legal in the State of Washington so cannot be run on National Forest Roads.   So snowmobiles are not the access solution.     Those areas designated as snowmobile play areas are so busy with humans and snowmobiles BF would not be anyplace near.      Joint use trails are designated no motor vehicles.       So to get in back country in the winter requires skis or snowshoes and starting from the nearest open road which could be dozens of miles away.       The forest service intends to keep people out of the back country in the winter.     Just to cut down on the vehicle stuck in the snow and lost human problem.     I do not blame them for that but the result is severely limited access for those that do want to get in there in the winter.