Active Skeptics Where Is Your Evidence

[Guest Cryptic Megafauna]

 

If I have proof am I obligated to provide it?

And if so, to satisfy who and what protocol?

I certainly would not provide proof to an online forum.

How smart is that?

Oh you know just the common decency to share an extraordinary entity with your bigfooting peers at least.  Then there is also the general benefit to the human knowledge bank.  Why not take your lead from St Roger who shared his "proof" with the world and had a ball doing it.

 

^I have a Griffin in my attic.  But you'll just have to go out and see one for yourself I'm not required to share it since it took a lotta hard work to lure it in.

 

So Crow Logic, why leak my great proof to this forum, specifically, is there any science going on here?

 

On here I will cross paths with analysts with degrees that can lead to acceptance and peer reviewed data being published, studies being done, etc.?

 

If I tell Crow Logic my "big secret" how does that help humanity, science, the furtherment of knowledge?

 

If you can answer that, Crow Logic, perhaps I can make you a rich man or at least increase your internet renown for your meme? And plus you have more material for the skeptical barbs, not that I am not a respecter of skeptical barbs.

Edited April 1, 2016 by Cryptic Megafauna

[FarArcher]

 

 

Got proof? If not, what do you have, besides your steadfast proclamations?

 

I know where a clan lives.  I know where that clan gets their water.  I know where that clan feeds.

 

Thus, any time I decide, I have the proof.

 

But I can't let a top scientific outfit like the Smithsonian get it, as they've already lost over a dozen giant skeletons and skulls.

 

If that's the kind of "proof" you speak of.  The kind agencies, universities, and scientific organizations seem most unwilling to share.

 

Well do you now?  And what is the mechanism that prevents you from contacting, John Green, Jeff Meldrum, Jack Bindernagle, Loren Coleman, Kelly Shaw?  Any one of them would jump at the chance. 

 

 

Mechanism?  There seems to be an occasional lack of foresight when this subject is broached.  What exactly makes you assume that contacting these folks would put this thing to bed?  You get the right evidence, any anthropologist can come to the right conclusions.

 

 

I know some like to scoff and blow about not obtaining and releasing evidence if you have access.  Again, that requires a lack of foresight.

 

Scenario 1:  I return to that mountain, I get a really good, clear, detailed photograph and release it.  Some will say it's contrived, some will say it's faked, some will say it's real, and I've just jumped on the Bigfoot Carousel - just one big circular ride that goes nowhere.  No thanks.  I don't have the inclination, patience, nor hunger.

 

Scenario 2:  I return to that mountain.  I know where a clan lives, where they drink, and where they hunt.  I know where to go, how to bring them in, what precursor engineering is required to neutralize their significant behaviors, capabilities, and tendencies, what we can get away with and what we can't, what to bring, how much to bring, what arouses their curiosity, what they're adverse to, who to bring and their capabilities, and exactly what all this costs.

 

Now, instead of a single photo, I'm able to collect videos of multiple visitations.  Maybe ten visits, maybe twenty visits, maybe more.  Each visit is captured with five or six different cameras with different capabilities through different technologies, from two angles, concentrated in two separate, identical locations.

 

Twenty visits, for example, captured by five cameras, means from one angle, there are 100 separate videos.  And the duplicate pod at a different angle, doubles that number.  Twenty visits means 200 separate videos.  Each captures elements the others don't.  Lots there for comparative analysis.  

 

Twenty visits over four months is easily doable.  If we just went and pitched tents for four months, we'd have that many visitations with them walking around our tents, and frequently just standing outside.  

 

I've already had my up close and personal. 

 

I don't care to benefit the human knowledge bank.  I have no burning desire to convince skeptics.  I'm certainly not an enthusiast.  I'm not impressed by academia.  I'm not a Bigfoot Researcher, many of whom I admire here, who put in the work.  That's just not me.

 

I go, it will be done right or not at all.  

 

 

And I expect to at least recover my investment.  I was born at night.  Just wasn't last night.

Edited April 1, 2016 by FarArcher

[Guest Crowlogic]

^ You forget that non bigfoot anthropologists are not buying bigfoot for any reason.  So you go where the friendly audience is.  You've painted a picture that you've got the goods enough to deliver them.  But you haven't and won't.  We see this time and time again and you either are not as well versed in your clan or you have no clan at at all.  Understand once the bigfooter engages with those who demand more than air the game gets tougher.  Get your excellent video and photos and send them to the bigfoot pros you'll get their attention if the evidence is worth anything at all.

Edited April 1, 2016 by Crowlogic

[norseman]

Video no matter how compelling proves nothing. But he has already said he cares not for proof.

[Incorrigible1]

 

I have a dragon in my garage.

 

I want a dragon too.

 

 

::Poof!!:: You got it.

[SWWASAS]

Would that be "Puff" the Magic Dragon?      Legal in Oregon and Washington   If Crow's theories have validity, the BF reports in Oregon and Washington would be way up after the legalization of pot.    Anyone with data base access have any comments?    As Crow says, show me the data!

Edited April 1, 2016 by SWWASASQUATCHPROJECT

[FarArcher]

^ You forget that non bigfoot anthropologists are not buying bigfoot for any reason.  So you go where the friendly audience is.  You've painted a picture that you've got the goods enough to deliver them.  But you haven't and won't.  We see this time and time again and you either are not as well versed in your clan or you have no clan at at all.  Understand once the bigfooter engages with those who demand more than air the game gets tougher.  Get your excellent video and photos and send them to the bigfoot pros you'll get their attention if the evidence is worth anything at all.

 

It's not a matter of painting a picture about the goods.  It's a matter of knowing exactly where a clan lives, and exactly what to do when you get there.  I'd say sharing that same mountain with them for four months - yeah - we're more well versed than most.  Had a lot of time to ponder what they were doing, and why.  And how.

 

Items you are completely ignorant of, but apparently expert enough to comment on.  What kind of baloney pose is that?

 

And I don't bait that easily, as to foolishly engage others in the BF community who "demand more than an air ball."

 

 

NORSE - you are absolutely correct.  Video alone won't quite do it.  

 

But I think you'll agree that getting lots of video while video opportunities are there for the taking - would be a good thing.  The other is just a matter of cleanup and packout.

[Guest Crowlogic]

^Well the burden of proof rests on your shoulders Far Archer.  I have my Griffin in the attic but heck no I see no reason why I'll share it.  It chose me so I'm special.  I know it's habits and what it likes to eat etc etc.  Sooooo you have a mountain, a clan, and a lot of dancing why you are no different than any other habber that's come down the pike.  Now if I'm wrong and you have posted compelling evidence that is not verbosity please link it to us.  In fact I'll even post a photo of the skeptic no bigfoot proof demanded in this thread.

 

Edited April 1, 2016 by Crowlogic

[ShadowBorn]

I have a dragon in my garage.

Incorrigible1

I see Dragons all the time when I step into a pet store in the reptile section, so I have no problem believing in them or that you may have one in your garage. This is where we differ in what Faracher or any one of us have seen in the wild, that the same goes with what you saw in the air.  I have no problem believing what you saw since it is natural to assume that there could be critters that we still have not acknowledge yet, but this is my choice to take your story on faith. I take Faracher or anyone else's story on faith since I have encountered them, although I may be skeptical at first. But are we not all skeptical of each other in a way. My skeptical way is not to give clues of this creatures behavior so that I can weed the hoax and come with a true behavior of this creature, But then should we not all be doing this and reserve behaviors as to not alert hoaxers of certain behaviors. But here I go again where I have no idea what I am talking about since I am a amateur who does not care about trying to prove them.. Yet I have stuck around when I could have left. But there way to many intelligent people here who know the truth or are reaching for the truth.

 

 

 

                                                                                                                                       

Edited April 1, 2016 by ShadowBorn

[Incorrigible1]

To anyone unaware, Carl Sagan wrote of the dragon in his garage in his book The Demon Haunted World.

 

The Dragon in My Garage
A story from "The Demon Haunted World", by Carl Sagan

"A fire-breathing dragon lives in my garage."

Suppose I seriously make such an assertion to you. Surely you'd want to check it out, see for yourself. There have been innumerable stories of dragons over the centuries, but no real evidence. What an opportunity!

"Show me", you say, and I lead you to my garage. You look inside and see a ladder, empty paint cans, an old tricycle - but no dragon

"Where's the dragon", you ask.

"Oh, she's right here", I reply, waving vaguely. "I neglected to mention that she's an invisible dragon".

You propose spreading flour on the floor of the garage to capture the dragon's footprints. "Good idea", I say, "but this dragon floats in the air". Then you'll use an infrared sensor to detect the invisible fire. "Good idea, but the invisible fire is also heatless", I say. You'll spray-paint the dragon and make her visible. "Good idea, except she's an incorporeal (bodyless) dragon and the paint won't stick!"

And so on. I counter every physical test you propose with a special explanation of why it won't work.

Now what is the difference between an invisible, incorporeal, floating dragon who spits heatless fire and no dragon at all? If there's no way to disprove my contention, no conceivable experiment that would count against it, what does it mean to say that my dragon exists? You're inability to invalidate my hypothesis is not at all the same thing as proving it true. Claims that cannot be tested, assertions immune to disproof are veridically worthless, whatever value they may have in inspiring us or in exciting our sense of wonder. What I'm asking you to do comes down to believing, in the absence of evidence, on my say-so.

[Guest Cryptic Megafauna]

I have a cryptid in my pocket, attic, wanna see it?

[norseman]

Biological creatures leave behind physical evidence, and that is what is acceptable to science.

Tracks and sightings should be leading us to physical evidence, thus far it has not.

The disconnect is in vocabulary, what is evidence? A body, bones, hair, scat, saliva, blood.....not tracks, sightings, pictures or film.

[FarArcher]

So far, every photo or film I've seen is severely lacking.  Some look like they were taken on the far side of the back forty, or they're shaky, or they're out of focus - on and on.  And I'd agree, those photos and videos are insufficient to qualify as real evidence.

 

But no one yet has gotten in close, high resolution, multi-spectrum and full spectrum photos and video.  With a known measurement alongside them.

 

Body is better, for sure.  

 

Two or more would be even better.  

[ShadowBorn]

Biological creatures leave behind physical evidence, and that is what is acceptable to science.

Tracks and sightings should be leading us to physical evidence, thus far it has not.

The disconnect is in vocabulary, what is evidence? A body, bones, hair, scat, saliva, blood.....not tracks, sightings, pictures or film.

This leads the argument of the skeptic side that prints are not sign of a physical biological creature left behind, yet, there are reports that says differently. This is all data that has been collected but not studied if the same creatures made them from different parts of the states. You know how data is collected on killer whales by getting to know a pod by there top fin, well the same might be done with there prints. 

 

We have no idea how deep fararcher was when he had his encounter or how far deep this clan is. Neither can he guarantee the safety of others but himself in case some thing was to go wrong either.. So only he himself if he is willing to go back and get this high def with proper planning. But he makes the choice . I am interested to understand what I saw and have already fulfilled that in so many ways.

 

But tracks are left overs of a physical entity, just like us and our ancestors who have left tracks before us. If I find a human track on the ground , well that is physical evidence that a human has been there. It happens in crime scenes with shoes that shows a person has been at a scene . If you find tracks and they disappear that does not mean they disappeared off the face of the earth. It just means you have not looked hard enough to find them and that you must look harder. The first physical evidence looked at on these creatures was tracks ,then came the rest. 

[norseman]

No, because tracks ARE NOT physical evidence. Tracks can be faked......scat cannot be faked. Photos can be faked.......a femur bone cannot be faked. Etc, etc......

Do you see?