This Bigfoot Problem

[FarArcher]

44 minutes ago, Cryptic Megafauna said:

Harvest, as in getting harvested.

Gee that's a pretty big human you have hanging up in the cave.

Yea, don't you like the ways his eyes bug out like he was surprised or sumthin sumpthin?

I hear they go good with acorn stew.

 

CM, for anyone that goes to remote areas, that's always a distinct possibility.  

 

As narratives from many peoples through the millennia relate - humans have been prey for these things - just not the sole source of food.

 

They're the ultimate ambush predator.

 

 

Edited September 8, 2016 by FarArcher

[Twist]

6 hours ago, Rockape said:

 

I think CM is saying Far Archer would be hanging in Bigfoot's cave. 

 

Good eye.  I totally read that wrong the first time. Maybe, Far Archer is really hairy.  JK 

[guyzonthropus]

Counter-tactics? Ok, sure, but if that's the key to a guaranteed success, then one must be aware of their entire "tactical library" in order to prepare sufficient responses to singular and interwoven strategies capable of switching to others on the fly, on the run, and on their turf. That's a pretty tall order over the course of such a high-stakes game of "forest chess"...to presume one has determined every possible response they might come up with, as individuals and as a group of unknown number, such that effective countermeasures may be developed and implemented, strikes me as unrealistic. The potential for unforseen aspects or elements is considerable...

 

After killing the one, holding off the immediate group could well prove difficult as some try to retrieve the body, demanding your attention, distracting you from those positioning for their own assault. If there are other groups within a relatively(for them) short distance, who's to say they wouldn't be called in? This could enable on going "interactions" all night, and in such situation, would they necessarily cease their attempts with the rising Sun? If no humans escape, body(or parts thereof) or no, it doesn't matter what they saw. I'd wager a guess they grasp that idea.

 

One can't really say with much certainty just what they've already dealt with in terms of humans trying to take a specimen and bring it out.  There could be countless individuals and groups intent on doing just that who simply never made it out due to strategies and abilities these creatures may possess.

 

With the length of those arms, just think how many tricks they could have up their sleeves, should they ever wear a shirt!

[guyzonthropus]

Of course, amongst your knowledges could be the means to take one used by those who have done so already, and who it is they sell them to, foregoing the whole issue of official or governmental disclosure entirely.....

[Guest Cryptic Megafauna]

9 hours ago, FarArcher said:

 

CM, for anyone that goes to remote areas, that's always a distinct possibility.  

 

As narratives from many peoples through the millennia relate - humans have been prey for these things - just not the sole source of food.

 

They're the ultimate ambush predator.

 

 

I will have to disagree on that one but each to their own, I've given my logic in other threads so I won't bore you by going over them again.

I could agree they are the ultimate in stealth recon., but that's as far as I'm going till someone sends me the video. 

[FarArcher]

Well, CM, one can elect to ignore centuries of narratives I suppose. 

 

One can ignore the tapestries, paintings, drawings, sculptures, and metal pressings that depict these attacks in Europe, one can ignore the multiple narratives in the Himalayas of attacks on humans, one can ignore the narratives of attacks on humans in eastern Russia around the Ural Mountains, one can ignore all the Native American tribes narratives of kidnappings and attacks on humans, but to do so would indicate to me that one is ignoring a significant repository of human experiences.

 

When the same, identical narratives are shared across continents, spread over millennia, and were experienced and reported without contact from other peoples and again separated by continents - well - I find that a bit fascinating.  Different peoples describe the same appearances, the same behaviors, and even draw the same things.

 

If one's criteria for proof is a video - a very recent technology - you're going to miss a lot of data.

 

[Yuchi1]

^^^ Precisely why you should be armed with big bore capability when afield as you may run into one having a bad hair day.

[FarArcher]

2 hours ago, guyzonthropus said:

Counter-tactics? Ok, sure, but if that's the key to a guaranteed success, then one must be aware of their entire "tactical library" in order to prepare sufficient responses to singular and interwoven strategies capable of switching to others on the fly, on the run, and on their turf. That's a pretty tall order over the course of such a high-stakes game of "forest chess"...to presume one has determined every possible response they might come up with, as individuals and as a group of unknown number, such that effective countermeasures may be developed and implemented, strikes me as unrealistic. The potential for unforseen aspects or elements is considerable...

 

After killing the one, holding off the immediate group could well prove difficult as some try to retrieve the body, demanding your attention, distracting you from those positioning for their own assault. If there are other groups within a relatively(for them) short distance, who's to say they wouldn't be called in? This could enable on going "interactions" all night, and in such situation, would they necessarily cease their attempts with the rising Sun? If no humans escape, body(or parts thereof) or no, it doesn't matter what they saw. I'd wager a guess they grasp that idea.

 

One can't really say with much certainty just what they've already dealt with in terms of humans trying to take a specimen and bring it out.  There could be countless individuals and groups intent on doing just that who simply never made it out due to strategies and abilities these creatures may possess.

 

With the length of those arms, just think how many tricks they could have up their sleeves, should they ever wear a shirt!

 

You bring up some good points, to be sure.

 

Guyzon, when you get down to it, there are far fewer tactics than one might assume.  Some confuse strategy with tactics, and that's easy to do.  Strategy has to do with one's approach to the battlefield, and Tactics are what one does once ON the battlefield.  Tactics really, are very few, and can pretty much be learned in one afternoon.  Variations within each of the few tactics are fluid, but even then, it's still an extension of the one tactic of the moment.  The purpose of all tactics is to divert an opponent's attention for the purpose of closing with - and destroying through envelopment, penetration, or breaking your opponents ability to mutually support each other.

 

Once you fully understand that, you won't be reactionary.  The fact that these opponents are without firearms simplifies their options considerably - and likewise simplifies counter tactics.  

 

They will have a very limited number of responses.  We will use layered defenses - and I'm not getting into specifics - but know that each one counters a known capability.  Doesn't matter if they harass, bum-rush, try misdirection, envelopment, or flanking.  Once one has been dropped, one rifle covers that and anything that approaches it, regardless of any other actions.

 

Team members must be highly disciplined, given to working the problem, and remaining on task regardless of the noise.  And everyone must trust the others to cover their responsibilities.  That comes from working together - and being stressed and proven multiple times.

 

You're right.  Sunup won't entirely stop them, but they have no advantage in daylight, and they instinctively increase their distance between them and humans.  It's automatic.

 

Our problem will be egressing the mountain.  LZ Albany, Varus legions - those are examples of the dangers of being strung out.

[norseman]

Well that is the difference....ONE.

 

I have no doubt one of these things could pull your arms off and beat you to death.

 

But once you ascribe tribal like warfare to them? Its logical to ask why we evolved into the dominant species. If our ancestors faced armed conflict with groups of creatures bigger, stronger, faster and as smart as we are? We should be extinct.

 

Why today settle for scarying humans off a picnic basket when your tribe could ransack a supermarket? A 7/11? Farmers markets? 

 

I dont think their cognitive abiities allows for that sort of planning or strategy.

 

As a whole they avoid humans desperately despite individual encounters in which they may take advantage of the situation.

[FarArcher]

Native Americans were pretty good warriors, but the never adapted the principle of organized campaigns.  They instead preferred small skirmishes, hit and run, small battles, small ambushes, and each incident was to their satisfaction.  Tribe fought against tribe, raids against other tribes provided them with goods.  They never really organized. And they were men.

 

These things are ambush predators.  Ambush predators that practice the equivalent of small unit tactics - and it's not a conscious, pre-planned decision - but the tactical excellence comes natural as they practice and execute their skills every day.  This isn't rocket science.  

 

Their cognitive abilities in fact DO allow for action based on practiced, practical applications they use in everyday life.  Learning and memory can be as simple as a go/no go series of lessons learned over time, depending on success/no success.  

 

Wolves hunt in packs, and do quite well - coordinated attacks, communications and all.  Porpoises love to hunt in packs, also communicate, coordinate, and they too, do quite well.  Cognitive abilities are not a function of only humans.  And at the end of the day - we're not sure what these things are.

 

True, they're normally reclusive, evasive.  So what triggers them?

 

Threats to their families?  How about the killing of one of theirs?  Maybe their absolute need to not leave a companion or family member behind?  

 

From those who have had multiple interactions - one thing each of them stresses - they all stress the tactical excellence, and most tell me, "you won't believe how smart these things can be."

 

Underestimating one's opponent can be their greatest folly.  Millions of men have died by doing that.

 

I'll pass on that attitude.

[Drew]

38 minutes ago, FarArcher said:

Native Americans were pretty good warriors, but the never adapted the principle of organized campaigns.  They instead preferred small skirmishes, hit and run, small battles, small ambushes, and each incident was to their satisfaction.  Tribe fought against tribe, raids against other tribes provided them with goods.  They never really organized. And they were men.

 

These things are ambush predators.  Ambush predators that practice the equivalent of small unit tactics - and it's not a conscious, pre-planned decision - but the tactical excellence comes natural as they practice and execute their skills every day.  This isn't rocket science.  

 

Their cognitive abilities in fact DO allow for action based on practiced, practical applications they use in everyday life.  Learning and memory can be as simple as a go/no go series of lessons learned over time, depending on success/no success.  

 

 

1.  Native Americans killed Moose, Brown/Grizzly Bear, Wolves, they figured out that they could have fresh meat all winter by trailing bears to their dens, and marking where they were hibernating.  When they needed meat, they'd go kill the bear in their winter den.   They did this with spears, made of stone.   But they never killed a Bigfoot.

 

2.  If  the Bigfoot hunting/avoidance style you mention takes practice, where are the mistakes?  Where are the young Bigfoot that don't yet know that walking into a daycare parking lot and screaming at children will get them killed?  Where are the bigfoots practicing their cliff-climbing skills that fall and land in a trailhead parking lot? Where are the frozen Bigfoot that got caught in a winter blizzard while they were practicing climbing a mountain?  Practicing walking along a hillside and getting swept away in an avalanche?  Practicing retrieving carrion and getting their arm caught in a bear trap?  Where is the practicing Bigfoot that attacked the wrong warrior's horse?  Practicing crossing a highway and getting creamed by a Freightliner?  Practicing breaking into a cabin and getting a mouth full of buckshot?  Where are the practices that went bad?  

 

Edited September 8, 2016 by Drew

[MIB]

41 minutes ago, FarArcher said:

Underestimating one's opponent can be their greatest folly.  Millions of men have died by doing that.

 

I'll pass on that attitude.

 

Are you sure you're passing?   What if you've been mislead?   What if the game, from their standpoint, started in the first encounter and they deliberately planted misinformation via their actions then?   What if you think you're ahead of them but instead you're 2 steps behind?   What surprises might be in store for you that you haven't planned for?    Or are you so sure of yourself that "that can't happen to me?"    Its a thing to ponder.

 

One you seem to have gotten right ... distraction.   A very good example of deliberate distraction to facilitate evasion or approach is contained in chapter 7 of "The Locals".   It's worth a read as a concrete example of what they have already done.  It's certainly not the whole bag of tricks. 

 

All in all, I'll stick to playing flag football with these guys and leave the full contact version to people who like to get hurt.   I'm likely to lose either one.  I choose to play the one where the loser survives to play another day.

 

MIB

[FarArcher]

Apparently, the Paiute did - caught up with what was believe the be the last ones troubling them in a cave.  Set a big fire at the cave entrance, killed the red giants that came out, while the others died inside.  They had plagued the Paiute for decades, but they finally seem to have wiped out the local population of red-haired giants.

 

So that shoots down your first postulation - and then we have other narratives of Native Americans, including Inuit of them killing these things that were tormenting them.

 

One doesn't take toddlers hunting - at least none of the guys I've ever hunted with did.  And if 10% of the narratives of folks getting the crap scared out of them - including kids at schools - are true, your next postulation falls apart.

 

I see you're big on practicing.  Practicing this, practicing that.

 

Each spring around here, the birds lay eggs, and the eggs hatch and there are baby birds in the nest.  I must get real busy or am not paying attention, but somehow, year after year, I miss these young birds going through flight school.  Somehow I miss all the instruction, and all the practice.  But then one day, they must graduate from flight school - as they're just gone.

 

Same with mountain goats.  Those little bitty mountain goats are jumping around on a few square inches of rock like they've been doing it all their lives - and somehow, we seem to not be able to film or otherwise document their leaping training, their jumping skill training, and their escape tactics.  How can we miss all that?

 

Oh.  That's right.  There are lots of reports of these things barely avoiding traffic on a highway - sometimes getting hit!  And sometimes getting shot while snooping around a house.

 

Your postulations/questions ignore the fact that many of the projections you suggest - occur.  

 

Here's the deal.  Nature has her ways.  

[FarArcher]

14 minutes ago, MIB said:

 

Are you sure you're passing?   What if you've been mislead?   What if the game, from their standpoint, started in the first encounter and they deliberately planted misinformation via their actions then?   What if you think you're ahead of them but instead you're 2 steps behind?   What surprises might be in store for you that you haven't planned for?    Or are you so sure of yourself that "that can't happen to me?"    Its a thing to ponder.

 

One you seem to have gotten right ... distraction.   A very good example of deliberate distraction to facilitate evasion or approach is contained in chapter 7 of "The Locals".   It's worth a read as a concrete example of what they have already done.  It's certainly not the whole bag of tricks. 

 

All in all, I'll stick to playing flag football with these guys and leave the full contact version to people who like to get hurt.   I'm likely to lose either one.  I choose to play the one where the loser survives to play another day.

 

MIB

 

MIB, nothing is certain - I know that.

 

We face envelopment (highly likely), flanking movements (possible), misdirection (very likely) a concentrated point attack (not likely), or a stand-off bombardment (very likely), or a combination of any or all of these over an entire night.

 

I ask you.  If you don't want barefooted fatboy to walk to one location - how can you not only discourage that - but deny that ability?  If an opponent has great night vision - what can you do to continually screw that up intermittently over several hours?  If you're being bumrushed, what can one do to break that up quickly and effectively?  How can you possibly direct their approach so that you've addressed what is commonly known as an "anticipated line of approach?"

 

It's not difficult at all.  Now if they sprout wings - we're in deep dookey.

[Drew]