hiflier Posted June 1, 2018 Posted June 1, 2018 Hey you guys, bicker all you want, but this is the way I see it. Environmental protection regs are being rolled back. It means the machines are gonna roll. We are fast running out of time.
ShadowBorn Posted June 1, 2018 Moderator Posted June 1, 2018 Quote Or go perform an experiment and see what results you get. 0 Some times to get the results one wants they have to move away from what has been tried. There is always another avenue that no one wants to go down until others have tried. That avenue is the one that may very well be laughed at but gets results. Some have done things that seem strange yet have come out of it with results. Unless one is willing to go down this avenue the result will never be found and knowledge will be lost. How much results has data brought to the table? has these results really brought a creature to the slab for study. Why do certain people keep having contact after contact? In my situation it did not occur until I did things in front of them so that they could see what I was doing in order to have this contact. And it was all done as an experiment. My first contact was cause I wanted the truth. So I want from there till now. Now I am not sure how Midnight Owl made his contact but I am sure that he must have tried some things in trial and error. And then from there he dialed it in to get the results he wanted. This is why being open to things that one might not try works. The data that one finds only helps one where they might be in a present time but does not predict a future time. It gives you little data of what they might be doing and where they might be hunting. If the data that we all do searches on was to help there would be a creature on a slab being tested. We would have more pictures of these creatures with trail cams. We would have a good view of one and not be having these chats. If there was good data then we would know where and how to track one and slap a body on a slab and have it tested. We would not have to wonder into the wilderness looking for them to get a photo or even get a clean shot at one. We would have an exact idea of where to go and retrieve one.Instead we have to sit back and wait for them to come to us. And when they hear us knocking and pretending to act like them they just turn around and walk away from us. Oh yea ! They know us very well and know how predictable we are. Strange when we should have the edge on them not them on us. Naw, Science needs to change the way it thinks and stop thinking that they do not exist cause they really do exist. There is going to come a time when we will no longer find them cause they are going to go so deep in wilderness that we will not be able to follow them. They have the advantage. It is time we understand this. 2
ioyza Posted June 1, 2018 Posted June 1, 2018 11 hours ago, norseman said: Peas and genetics, sure. But at some point an idea is proven right.....or not. Its not being “sciencey” its about reality. It's not about proof, it's about what deductions you can logically make given a set of observations. Mendel could look at his garden and deduce that at least some traits were inheritable in a predictable way. He could test his hypothesis by doing certain cross pollinations and deduce a lot more, about dominant and recessive alleles and the patterns they yield etc. It didn't allow him to discover the DNA molecule, or its structure. Is that what was needed to prove his concepts? We have the proof in hand. There's no way the film could be fake, or the footprints that went along with it, or the myriad prints since then, or even the body of sightings as a whole. Plenty of Meldrum's work on morphology deductions from footprint casts would easily be of publishable quality if it were on any other subject. Scientists just don't want to look at it. I'm sorry, and I know he got pretty annoying about it prior to leaving, but DWA was absolutely right on all this. And it's not because of some "higher standard for evidence," it's because of the same entrenched cognitive biases the rest of the population live with. So we need the body to get their attention, right? Because: 13 hours ago, Patterson-Gimlin said: Without it they will pass into myth , legend and great campfire stories But the trend I see could not be more the opposite. Awareness and interest in the subject is very much waxing, not waning. There will continue to be nuggets of evidence and footage, of similar quality to what we always see, that push the snowball along, but no body. We'll reach a point where the majority accepts it, and you'll still be buying your lottery tickets with no known odds. 11 hours ago, norseman said: Are you sure you're a scientist? Yep, but as I said... not when it comes to sasquatch. Except for performing that very first most basic experiment: 'If they exist, I should be able to follow accepted methodologies and find them eventually, and I'll know because I'll see and hear the same types of things all these people are claiming.' Success first try. Oh yeah and: 11 hours ago, norseman said: And I have no idea what you mean by “something else”. Are you talking about aliens, spirits, portals? Not really, no. Just meant to emphasize the novelty of sasquatch, that they defy conventional classification. 2
NCBFr Posted June 1, 2018 Posted June 1, 2018 (edited) There is no guarantee that shooting Patty would have made any difference. I have a strong suspicion the government would have stepped in and taken the body and we would be in the same position we are today with one less BF in the world and probably lost the best video to boot. Edited June 1, 2018 by NCBFr 1
SWWASAS Posted June 1, 2018 BFF Patron Posted June 1, 2018 If Patty was shot, the film would have been confiscated as evidence and we would have never seen it. 1
norseman Posted June 1, 2018 Admin Posted June 1, 2018 2 hours ago, ioyza said: It's not about proof, it's about what deductions you can logically make given a set of observations. Mendel could look at his garden and deduce that at least some traits were inheritable in a predictable way. He could test his hypothesis by doing certain cross pollinations and deduce a lot more, about dominant and recessive alleles and the patterns they yield etc. It didn't allow him to discover the DNA molecule, or its structure. Is that what was needed to prove his concepts? We have the proof in hand. There's no way the film could be fake, or the footprints that went along with it, or the myriad prints since then, or even the body of sightings as a whole. Plenty of Meldrum's work on morphology deductions from footprint casts would easily be of publishable quality if it were on any other subject. Scientists just don't want to look at it. I'm sorry, and I know he got pretty annoying about it prior to leaving, but DWA was absolutely right on all this. And it's not because of some "higher standard for evidence," it's because of the same entrenched cognitive biases the rest of the population live with. So we need the body to get their attention, right? Because: But the trend I see could not be more the opposite. Awareness and interest in the subject is very much waxing, not waning. There will continue to be nuggets of evidence and footage, of similar quality to what we always see, that push the snowball along, but no body. We'll reach a point where the majority accepts it, and you'll still be buying your lottery tickets with no known odds. Yep, but as I said... not when it comes to sasquatch. Except for performing that very first most basic experiment: 'If they exist, I should be able to follow accepted methodologies and find them eventually, and I'll know because I'll see and hear the same types of things all these people are claiming.' Success first try. Oh yeah and: Not really, no. Just meant to emphasize the novelty of sasquatch, that they defy conventional classification. No....its all about the proof. Physical conclusive proof. Nothing else matters to science. Too many shenanigans in this field.....
ioyza Posted June 1, 2018 Posted June 1, 2018 If Patty was shot, Roger and Bob would just be two missing cowboys. Not even famous ones. 41 minutes ago, norseman said: No....its all about the proof. Physical conclusive proof. Nothing else matters to science. Too many shenanigans in this field..... Meh. Again, Meldrum has it, show me where a single qualified expert has given any sort of real comment on any of his papers.
SWWASAS Posted June 1, 2018 BFF Patron Posted June 1, 2018 I suspect that Meldrums peers have stated that they have other explanations for his interpretation of footprint analysis pointing towards BF existence. Scientists usually hedge their bets and are not into absolutes like many on this forum. Disotell for example just says show me the evidence. As Norseman points out, footprints are not conclusive for many reasons. 1
norseman Posted June 1, 2018 Admin Posted June 1, 2018 46 minutes ago, ioyza said: If Patty was shot, Roger and Bob would just be two missing cowboys. Not even famous ones. Meh. Again, Meldrum has it, show me where a single qualified expert has given any sort of real comment on any of his papers. You assume much....for a scientist. Show me one of Meldrums papers that was published by a major scientific journal..... While sympathetic to Meldrum and his work? It doesnt change the facts. Your head is buried in the sand.
ioyza Posted June 1, 2018 Posted June 1, 2018 *sigh* well we could chase each other in circles on that all day couldn't we? The work is of publishable quality if not for entrenched bias! Show me one paper that's published! Chicken! Egg! You assume that because a study is published, it's quality, and I promise that's far from the case too. Soooo much junk science in print, especially in biomedical. I remember what it was like to have my head buried in sand, prior to realizing sasquatch exists. I remember it so clearly, as the proponent case was presented to me, the gradually increasing cognitive dissonance as I began to realize just how often any alternate explanation I could come up with fell so far short of plausible, how often I had to shrug and dismiss. Oh well, as much as I do actually enjoy these back and forths in spite of your mud slinging, I don't like getting this far off-topic, and they do kind of reach these dead-ends. Let me bring it back to Midnight Owl's very first paragraph: Quote I think one of the best advantages the Bigfoot/Sasquatch subject has over a substantial number of researchers is the prevalent underestimation of the subject’s level of intelligence and their extraordinary physical abilities. To assume they can easily be herded, lured and baited like a dumb animal didn’t work for me when I began I my quest for reliable answers. They were always one or two steps ahead of me. Agree or disagree? If you agree, how do you propose to kill one? Just playing lotto? If you disagree, how do you account for such a profound lack of success in obtaining anything concrete? 2
hiflier Posted June 1, 2018 Posted June 1, 2018 1 hour ago, SWWASAS said: Disotell for example just says show me the evidence. Speaking of which, he's hot on the trail with the samples sent to him by Derek Randles' Olympic Project. The nest samples that were sent to him are supposed to go through the new environmental DNA process and I think Dr. Disotell was waiting for the right equipment to do that kind of analysis if it isn't already in his lab. Haven't looked for any recent updates though. 1
dmaker Posted June 1, 2018 Posted June 1, 2018 2 hours ago, ioyza said: If Patty was shot, Roger and Bob would just be two missing cowboys. Not even famous ones. Meh. Again, Meldrum has it, show me where a single qualified expert has given any sort of real comment on any of his papers. Show me where he has presented papers to any mainstream journal where they could receive the attention you mention. 1
SWWASAS Posted June 1, 2018 BFF Patron Posted June 1, 2018 Having seen the pictures from the Olympic project of people picking through the nest, I suspect that a lot of human hair will be found. I cringed when I saw that picture. Every hair found that turns out to be human will just obfuscate or make it more difficult to find something not human and at the same time run the costs of testing way up. Even if something interesting is found, just the picture suggests contamination to anyone that sees it. 1
dmaker Posted June 1, 2018 Posted June 1, 2018 4 hours ago, ioyza said: We have the proof in hand. There's no way the film could be fake, or the footprints that went along with it, or the myriad prints since then, or even the body of sightings as a whole. That is simply not true. 1
ioyza Posted June 1, 2018 Posted June 1, 2018 29 minutes ago, dmaker said: Show me where he has presented papers to any mainstream journal where they could receive the attention you mention. I highly doubt he'd publish private email correspondence regarding paper submissions, but I equally doubt he'd get to where he's at with the subject and not at least try to submit somewhere, so maybe at some point I'll do a little digging to see if he's talked about this anywhere. It won't be this weekend though. 27 minutes ago, dmaker said: That is simply not true. It simply is true.
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