Field trips 2.0

[Huntster]

You only need to feed an ATV when you ride it. Being inanimate, they don't have attitudes or psychologic problems to deal with. ATVs don't run away when frightened, angry, or hungry for something they smell in the next valley. ATVs don't kick when the switch is turned off. 

 

Parts for older vehicles can be a problem. Different types of ATVs have different strengths and weaknesses (Argos float, all others don't, tracked rigs shine in snow, but are slower and can throw a track in more solid terrain, etc). Your rig dictates the geography you can navigate (interior Alaska is riverboat territory, but you're limited to the rivers and not much beyond).

 

In the end, your rig needs to match your mission and area of operations. Even helicopters have limitations, especially legal. 

[PNWexplorer]

I checked the costs for hay and my folks usually get 10 ton a year for their two animals.  They can't go pick it up anymore due to age, so they have it delivered.  $275 per ton is the going rate these days.  That's $2750 per year just for hay, or $230 a month for two animals.  They try to pasture as much as possible, but their little pasture doesn't last the entire summer.

 

Throw in grain, supplements, vet bills, and farrier costs and I can see why my dad figured about $250 per animal per year.

 

I love horses and mules and they are a huge advantage in getting game out of the woods, but they are way, way more costly than vehicles.  But, there are many places where horses and mules are the only option since ICE vehicles are not allowed and/or the terrain is too rough.

[Huntster]

4 hours ago, PNWexplorer said:

........there are many places where horses and mules are the only option since ICE vehicles are not allowed and/or the terrain is too rough.

 

Yup. Most of Alaska is not friendly to pack animals. They shine in the mountains above timberline. But that's true of the Rocky Mountains. I would think that, if anywhere, that's where they shine..........if you have lots of land/pasture and are young enough to deal with the daily chores. 

 

Hay up here is controlled by some sort of organized criminal network. I haven't needed to buy it in over 10 years, but even back then I was paying over $400 per ton.........not delivered.

[langfordbc]

On 3/25/2023 at 2:12 AM, PNWexplorer said:

As someone who grew up with horses and mules, I would have to vigorously disagree with that statement.

 

My folks currently are down to one horse and one mule.  They have their own barn and about 4 acres left of the 500-acre homestead.  They bought the mule last Fall for $1500.  He's a smaller mule and 18 years old.  Their horse is a larger quarter horse and 20 years old.  They have them because my mom refuses to not have horses and mules.  She is over 70 and can't ride.  I asked my dad last year what the monthly cost was of feeding and maintaining a horse or mule.  He said it was about $250 per month, per animal.  By the time you factor in the hay, grain, tack, vet bills, farrier bills, etc, it is quite expensive.

 

The last moose my dad got was hauled out using his 1987 Honda 300 ATV that he bought in 1992 for $1500.  He has changed the oil a few times and put new tires on it once.  He has about $500 in maintenance costs into it over the past 30 years.

 

No way you can claim that ICE vehicle maintenance and upkeep costs are anywhere close to costs for a horse.

I specifically said “not necessarily” because while in most cases what you are saying is absolutely true, when we put down my wife’s Morgan/Quarter gelding last Spring, it was the second time he’d seen a vet in the 12 years we’d been together. $50 a month for feet trimming and no more than $500 a year in hay is what he cost me. Of course there had been a few more minor expenses than that, but they never added up to anything significant.

[norseman]

On 3/25/2023 at 2:12 AM, PNWexplorer said:

As someone who grew up with horses and mules, I would have to vigorously disagree with that statement.

 

My folks currently are down to one horse and one mule.  They have their own barn and about 4 acres left of the 500-acre homestead.  They bought the mule last Fall for $1500.  He's a smaller mule and 18 years old.  Their horse is a larger quarter horse and 20 years old.  They have them because my mom refuses to not have horses and mules.  She is over 70 and can't ride.  I asked my dad last year what the monthly cost was of feeding and maintaining a horse or mule.  He said it was about $250 per month, per animal.  By the time you factor in the hay, grain, tack, vet bills, farrier bills, etc, it is quite expensive.

 

The last moose my dad got was hauled out using his 1987 Honda 300 ATV that he bought in 1992 for $1500.  He has changed the oil a few times and put new tires on it once.  He has about $500 in maintenance costs into it over the past 30 years.

 

No way you can claim that ICE vehicle maintenance and upkeep costs are anywhere close to costs for a horse.

I agree with you to a point. But If you run horses and mules in with cattle and have lots of pasture and buy hay in bulk it’s not nearly as costly as keeping them on four acres. The price of a round bale straight from the field is a lot cheaper than a 80 lbs bale bought at the feed store.

 

The one mule I bought from an old mountain man down the road had never been fed hay in his life. The old guy had a couple hundred acres of south facing pasture that they got kicked into every winter and they dug for their grub. And they dipped snow. No hay. No water tank. I think that’s harsh but that was the toughest mule I ever owned.

 

Ultimately it comes down to what you wanna do. If wilderness is the goal then mules are king, beats walking by a fair margin. If you’re just gonna hang out in national forest where ATV’s are allowed? Then it might not make sense. I still would prefer hunting off a mule than a ATV. But with my neck injury the risk isn’t worth it anymore. I am now a yuppie with an e bike.

 

 

[langfordbc]

Found myself in Ucluelet for work this past weekend. Even though I spent most of my life on Vancouver Island, I've never travelled to the Tofino/Ucluelet area. I kept an eye open for the sighting location from 2007, as depicted in MonsterQuest's "Mysterious Ape Island". It is on Highway 4, as it runs along the Kennedy River between Port Alberni and Ucluelet.

 

Turns out is was very easy to spot, and looks remarkably similar for a riverbank location, 16 years later. In the episode they refer to a Maureen Creek bridge, which in fact appears to actually be Marion Creek, at least according to Backroads Map Book.

 

Edited April 5, 2023 by langfordbc

[PNWexplorer]

On 4/1/2023 at 9:47 PM, langfordbc said:

I specifically said “not necessarily” because while in most cases what you are saying is absolutely true, when we put down my wife’s Morgan/Quarter gelding last Spring, it was the second time he’d seen a vet in the 12 years we’d been together. $50 a month for feet trimming and no more than $500 a year in hay is what he cost me. Of course there had been a few more minor expenses than that, but they never added up to anything significant.

What size of pasture did you have him on?  $500 a year for hay in British Colombia translates to about one ton of hay. 

 

https://vancouversun.com/business/b-c-farmers-face-double-whammy-leading-to-rising-cost-of-feeding-animals

 

The average is about 3-4 tons per year for a horse...

https://horseage.com/how-much-hay-does-a-horse-eat-in-a-year/

So, at current BC prices, it would cost about $1500 to $2000 per year for hay.  You must have had your horse on 100% pasture feed for most of the year and only used hay for a few months during the winter.

[langfordbc]

As usual, the media can't be relied on to paint an accurate picture. Hay prices have certainly gone up, and for people in the Lower Mainland (greater Vancouver) area, it may have gone up significantly. But I live in northern BC, where both hay and horses are plentiful.

 

This past year I paid $115 for a 1200 lb. round bale, so ~$200/ton. I bought 16 right at harvest in early July and still have 3 unopened. That is for a QH mare, her now 1.5 year old colt, and a mini donkey. Last year the same bale cost $100, and even less in the years prior.

 

We only have about 5 acres of mediocre pasture, but it does significantly decrease the amount of supplementary feed required for much of the spring and summer. We also fed more through the summer this year than other years because of the colt and nursing mare. 12 bales has been enough for two horses and a donkey in the past. As a reminder, I live in northern BC, and pasture is simply not available for at least half the year.

 

I'm not trying to make the argument that horses are cheap, because that is definitely not the case. I'm just saying that some of them can be pretty hardy and low maintenance. Definitely more the exception than the rule, however.

Edited April 5, 2023 by langfordbc

[PNWexplorer]

Went for a hike today up at McCroskey State Park on the border of Idaho and Washington.  I took my new dog with me, Arlo.  I adopted him from my daughter last month as he grew too big for the house and drove the cat nuts.  They got him during Covid, so he has never been in the woods, never been around people, and never been in public.

 

Today was his first time in the woods and he loved it!

 

 

I was going to go to a spot I found hunting for mushrooms last year that had what looked like a bed made from pine boughs, but, the road was snowed shut a couple of miles before that spot.

 

Backtracked to an interesting trail that went up a mountain and hiked it a couple of miles until it hit the deep snow and was impassable on foot...

 

 

Bunches of elk and deer sign in this area, along with lots of wolf sign.

 

Biggest wolf scat I have run across...

 

No BF sign, however.  No weird tree structures or bedding, no tracks, no wood knocks, and no vocalizations.

 

I did find a couple of tracks that were interesting.  Pretty sure this is a bear hind footprint...

 

 

But no idea what this is.  If it's a wolf, it's massive and heavy.  Wasn't defined enough to tell, but it was deep and big.

 

 

No BF sign, but still a great hike.

[BC witness]

Nice report, PNW, thanks. It looks like you now have an eager hiking partner. I've run into the same snow problems locally, it's hanging in later than usual for this area. As recent as last week, the mountains were still getting snow as low as 400M (1300') so upper watersheds are still not reachable. That wet spring snow is really easy to got bogged down in.

[DrPSH]

@PNWexplorer, Arlo is darling. So glad you have a new hiking partner!

[BC witness]

Another month of wet weekends, family obligations, and a 10 day nasty chest cold kept me out of the woods for a while, but today weather and circumstances allowed a day long get away. I went to the valley where I had my sighting and trackway find about 45 years ago, as it's only 45 minutes from my door. I first went to the top of the peak at the mouth of the valley, which has a great lookout at a rustic hikers cabin overlooking the Fraser Valley. On the way up I spotted a large hawk circling overhead, and when I parked at the trail to the cabin, I could hear several grouse doing their whoop call in the timber. I met 2 couples at the lookout who had never been there before, so I was able to point out landmarks visible from there to them. After a pleasant 1/2 hour chatting, they continued further along the ridgeline, while I went back down the very steep grade to the main FSR leading further back into the watershed.

 

On the way down I heard a very noticeable noise from the area of the left front wheel, which I assume to be either the brake wear indicator tab, or I somehow got a rock between the brake rotor and the stone guard. I'll have to get that checked out this week, before I do any more trips with the H3. Once back on the main road up the valley, I was watching for a mine adit that I had spotted years ago, just up the bank off the roadside, but I couldn't spot it. As I explored the side branches off the main FSR, I found that most led to snow patches in the shaded areas that can be vey easy to get stuck in when the spring melt makes snow heavy and wet, so I didn't push my luck on those. I did check for tracks in those areas, but found only boots, dogs, and tires had left their marks.

 

After meeting several more people out there enjoying the better weather, I headed back out towards pavement, still watching for that mine adit, and finally located it. This time I pinned it on Gaia, so I can find it again, when I bring the right footwear and lighting to go more than a few feet into it. I got back home in time to fire up the BBQ for the family for the first time this year. A good day all around.

[norseman]

[BC witness]

Elk in your pasture?

 

A buddy and I just started planning a bison hunt in Northern Alberta this fall, to the same area where I got one back in '05.

[norseman]

8 hours ago, BC witness said:

Elk in your pasture?

 

A buddy and I just started planning a bison hunt in Northern Alberta this fall, to the same area where I got one back in '05.

Just down the road from the Newport place. Very close to Calispel lake.

 

Nice! Are those Woods Buffalo?