The decline of interest in Sasquatch

[Oonjerah]

Horses, cattle, goats, sheep, hogs ... all are good to eat.

But they're very often penned within sight of a house ... there's people with dogs on watch.

At night, downwind, Bigfoot knows how to sneak, I've heard ... grab an unwary hog or sheep, & run for the hills.

 

Since we outnumber them & don't hide, Bf must know way more about us than we do about them.

 

As for decline of interest, I have notion about that.

 

[hiflier]

11 hours ago, BlackRockBigfoot said:

Off to see if I can find any accounts of horses being attacked while being ridden

 

John Green's database has a couple of accounts. One was with a horse and buggy.

[msouliere]

On 8/22/2018 at 11:40 AM, hiflier said:

The seeming lack of interest is also a perspective of what is on the internet- or should I say what is not on the internet. We know stuff is happening, it is just not being publicly forthcoming. For instance, the results from any testing being done, or waitin to still be done by Dr. Todd Disotell on samples from Derek Randle's Oregon nesting site. Dr. Disotell is supposed to be a speaker sometime over the Labor Day Weekend at a conference being presented in Portland, Maine at Loren Coleman's International Cryptozoology Museum; something I will miss unfortunately because I am on the road when that conference goes on. 

 

Hello hiflier--

I was able to attend the conference, and heard Dr. Disotell's talk.  I did a post about the first day of the conference on my Strange Maine blog, and will hopefully get the 2nd day typed up and posted this weekend.  Basically, what he had to say was tremendously exciting.  I'll cut and paste that part of the post and tweak it a little for all you guys here (and add a few details that I know you'll be interested in too):

 

His talk focused on the potential for researchers to utilize the recent advances in DNA technology to accomplish species surveys. Using environmental DNA drawn from topsoil, local bodies of water, etc, labs can now determine what species are in a given area, and how long ago they were there in the case of past or transient populations.

Of course we leave traces of our DNA everywhere we go, and so does every other species on earth. This new methodology, environmental DNA metabarcoding, is transforming how we survey animal and plant communities. With this and other tools, Disotell urges us: "Those of us in the cryptozoology field need to do way better than we have done up to now."  Up until now, he states, he has seen "zero data to convince [him] of the existence of legendary cryptids," but he is hopeful that access to new DNA technology will advance efforts, especially as the cost has plummeted now.  (in answer to your question, hiflier, it sounds like either they haven't crunched the samples you refer to yet, or the data turned out not to be anything indicating an unknown hominid.  He was aware of why people were asking about his results up to now.)

In other words -- work hard, learn well, and use new tools -- and always keep in mind that DNA is the keystone of species identification.

 

The process involves utilizing either local water samples or local dirt samples, and filtering them to separate all the trace DNA types present or having passed through a given area.  In the case of dirt or physical debris from the topsoil, etc, the material is pulverized for analysis.  He mentioned that rather than doing footprint casts, it would be more useful to cull the topsoil from the area of the print and submit that for testing, as it would undoubtedly contain trace DNA from whatever had left the print.

 

He said that he is willing to do analysis for people, but "don't just mail me material."  Initiating contact with him (his lab) to find out parameters and costs in advance would be the way to go.  He said that the process costs a couple grand, but out of that you get hundreds of results, whereas the old systems cost even more and then only gave you results for a single physical specimen sample.  You get a full picture of all wildlife, etc, that traverses or inhabits that region now and in the past (depending on how deep the sample digs).

 

I hope that's helpful!  I had a chance to give my own talk about what I've learned about Bigfoot in Maine from the eyewitnesses I've spoken to for the first time, which was an interesting exercise in summarizing a diverse quantity of reports in a wide range of eras into a digestible whole.

 

Cheers from Portland,

Michelle Souliere

 

Quote

 

 

Edited October 11, 2018 by msouliere
typo

[hiflier]

Thank you, Michelle. Yes, Dr. Disotell has a GoFundMe account running to help offset the cost of the e-DNA testing expenses. I will be in touch with you at some point in the near future as there is much that we might discuss. And thank you for the update and info from the Conference. And BTW 'The Green Hand' ROCKS! I used to go to the ICZM when it was around the corner from you. My son actually purchase a year membership for me one Christmas a while back. He also presented me with a postcard of a Slick Airways plane along with a Slick Airways brass button from uniform either worn by one of the flight attendants or a member of the flight crew. Yeah, my son is a pretty cool guy  I will be in touch.

 

And welcome to the Forum!

Edited October 11, 2018 by hiflier

[gigantor]

On 10/11/2018 at 12:26 PM, msouliere said:

He mentioned that rather than doing footprint casts, it would be more useful to cull the topsoil from the area of the print and submit that for testing, as it would undoubtedly contain trace DNA from whatever had left the print.

 

 

That is exciting news, thank you for posting this.

 

We have a member who has obtained original casts from the cripple foot Bossburg trackway (AtlantiS). I wonder if he would donate one for testing?

[ShadowBorn]

If you can get DNA from water sample off a creeks this will be a great avenue for searching an area of a known creature. If I had a couple thousand I could of send him sample's of DNA where I know that these creatures have drank water from. Even bathed in when it has been real hot and the skeeters have been a real bother. There have been a few hidden water holes that I have found where tracks have been found.

[NatFoot]

On 10/13/2018 at 11:49 AM, ShadowBorn said:

If you can get DNA from water sample off a creeks this will be a great avenue for searching an area of a known creature. If I had a couple thousand I could of send him sample's of DNA where I know that these creatures have drank water from. Even bathed in when it has been real hot and the skeeters have been a real bother. There have been a few hidden water holes that I have found where tracks have been found.

 

Somebody man up and send him some money.

 

Or, If you are serious about them being identified, save up for a couple months and do it yourself.

 

If you've seen them drinking and bathing, you're in the top 1%. Help us.

[hiflier]

I am of the opinion that the GoFundMe thing that Dr. Disotell has been promoting is just for public consumption. I think that there is money already being thrown at this and the GoFundMe announcements are to make people think that there is going to be a long wait for any results. My gut tells me that the GoFundMe campaign isn't really needed here. I think it is mentioned to keep people from pounding on his door. The idea of waiting for funding instills a level of patience in believers that otherwise wouldn't be there. In other words, it is hard for me to think that something this important is going to languish because there isn't a wealthy proponent out there that wouldn't fund it. Just my humble opinion. 

Edited October 15, 2018 by hiflier

[norseman]

On 10/12/2018 at 11:37 AM, gigantor said:

 

That is exciting news, thank you for posting this.

 

We have a member who has obtained original casts from the cripple foot Bossburg trackway (AtlantiS). I wonder if he would donate one for testing?

 

I wonder if the casts are too old? Almost 50 years....

On 10/11/2018 at 9:26 AM, msouliere said:

Hello hiflier--

I was able to attend the conference, and heard Dr. Disotell's talk.  I did a post about the first day of the conference on my Strange Maine blog, and will hopefully get the 2nd day typed up and posted this weekend.  Basically, what he had to say was tremendously exciting.  I'll cut and paste that part of the post and tweak it a little for all you guys here (and add a few details that I know you'll be interested in too):

 

His talk focused on the potential for researchers to utilize the recent advances in DNA technology to accomplish species surveys. Using environmental DNA drawn from topsoil, local bodies of water, etc, labs can now determine what species are in a given area, and how long ago they were there in the case of past or transient populations.

Of course we leave traces of our DNA everywhere we go, and so does every other species on earth. This new methodology, environmental DNA metabarcoding, is transforming how we survey animal and plant communities. With this and other tools, Disotell urges us: "Those of us in the cryptozoology field need to do way better than we have done up to now."  Up until now, he states, he has seen "zero data to convince [him] of the existence of legendary cryptids," but he is hopeful that access to new DNA technology will advance efforts, especially as the cost has plummeted now.  (in answer to your question, hiflier, it sounds like either they haven't crunched the samples you refer to yet, or the data turned out not to be anything indicating an unknown hominid.  He was aware of why people were asking about his results up to now.)

In other words -- work hard, learn well, and use new tools -- and always keep in mind that DNA is the keystone of species identification.

 

The process involves utilizing either local water samples or local dirt samples, and filtering them to separate all the trace DNA types present or having passed through a given area.  In the case of dirt or physical debris from the topsoil, etc, the material is pulverized for analysis.  He mentioned that rather than doing footprint casts, it would be more useful to cull the topsoil from the area of the print and submit that for testing, as it would undoubtedly contain trace DNA from whatever had left the print.

 

He said that he is willing to do analysis for people, but "don't just mail me material."  Initiating contact with him (his lab) to find out parameters and costs in advance would be the way to go.  He said that the process costs a couple grand, but out of that you get hundreds of results, whereas the old systems cost even more and then only gave you results for a single physical specimen sample.  You get a full picture of all wildlife, etc, that traverses or inhabits that region now and in the past (depending on how deep the sample digs).

 

I hope that's helpful!  I had a chance to give my own talk about what I've learned about Bigfoot in Maine from the eyewitnesses I've spoken to for the first time, which was an interesting exercise in summarizing a diverse quantity of reports in a wide range of eras into a digestible whole.

 

Cheers from Portland,

Michelle Souliere

 

 

 

I have a sneaking suspicion that this will get us our answers sooner as opposed to later! Which is good!

[Lake County Bigfooot]

I guess as long as there are enthusiasts there will be someone trying to sell us something, not that this is always a bad thing. I certainly enjoyed reading allot of books on the subject on my kindle over several winters. That is what sparked my curiosity in the subject, but it was not until my apparent vocal encounter in 2013 that I actually wanted to conduct any research. I am now at the point of knowing that much of what I was doing was really futile in proving anything, all though it supported my previous suspicions. I suppose these days I hope one slips up, leaves a print, or on the very outside of possibility allows me to see it. That is often the case, you may suspect they are present, but have a heck of a time trying to prove it. I think you might actually have a greater chance at the Mega Millions than actually seeing a Sasquatch. I have not given up looking left and right on my country drives, especially at night. It would probably due me some good to travel to Oregon and see some real Bigfoot country. The mid-west may have some, but they are pretty wary of being seen, and only seem to operate well after dark. Most encounters are night time road crossings in this area. Perhaps my favorite rare day time sighting is the dual sightings at Medinah Country Club listed in John Greens account base, that is classic 70s stuff. Several golfers see one trying to leap over a high fence and observe it for several minutes, probably a juvenile. Add to that I happened to be working there in 2014 and hear all the stories of how the members had them cut down a bunch of forest due to the prolific wildlife that was operating day and night. One must wonder at the reaction the other club members had when this story was leaked or told. The fact that they actually contacted John Green to tell him the story was enough to convince me. Those members had allot of credibility on the line and would not have talked about it if they were not as convinced of what they saw.

Edited November 6, 2018 by Lake County Bigfooot

[wiiawiwb]

On 10/11/2018 at 12:26 PM, msouliere said:

He said that he is willing to do analysis for people, but "don't just mail me material."  Initiating contact with him (his lab) to find out parameters and costs in advance would be the way to go.  He said that the process costs a couple grand, but out of that you get hundreds of results, whereas the old systems cost even more and then only gave you results for a single physical specimen sample.  You get a full picture of all wildlife, etc, that traverses or inhabits that region now and in the past (depending on how deep the sample digs).

 

 

Two questions.

 

1) You allude to parameters. What parameters are you referring to? How does he suggest samples be collected and transmitted to avoid contamination?

 

2) I wouldn't quibble over a couple of hundred but my "couple of thousand" might be $2,000 while his couple of thousand might be $7,000.  It is critical to have him nail this number down more definitively if he's encouraging the collection of samples.

 

If Disotell wants reliable samples, there needs to be a protocol communicated to us that we can follow. Otherwise, the process may be contaminated and doomed from the start and no one wants to throw hard-earned money down a rat hole. I don't have the faintest idea what protocol is. Medical gloves, a clean instrument, and clean container? His clean may be different than mine. 

[NatFoot]

2 hours ago, wiiawiwb said:

 

Two questions.

 

1) You allude to parameters. What parameters are you referring to? How does he suggest samples be collected and transmitted to avoid contamination?

 

2) I wouldn't quibble over a couple of hundred but my "couple of thousand" might be $2,000 while his couple of thousand might be $7,000.  It is critical to have him nail this number down more definitively if he's encouraging the collection of samples.

 

If Disotell wants reliable samples, there needs to be a protocol communicated to us that we can follow. Otherwise, the process may be contaminated and doomed from the start and no one wants to throw hard-earned money down a rat hole. I don't have the faintest idea what protocol is. Medical gloves, a clean instrument, and clean container? His clean may be different than mine. 

 

Very good points. If he was really trying to do this, he would've been smart enough to lay that out from the start.

 

My opinion: he's all about "the show" and money.

[Arvedis]

On 11/10/2018 at 5:22 AM, NatFoot said:

 

Very good points. If he was really trying to do this, he would've been smart enough to lay that out from the start.

 

My opinion: he's all about "the show" and money.

 

My take on mohawk man is he doesn't have the pressure or oversight that other academics and scientists have to stick to the program.  Whatever structure he is in allows him to take on edge work like BF.  But, testing does take time and money so maybe that should be part of the BF field manual.  In addition to processing valid evidence in a chain of custody format that is acceptable to scientific study, be prepared to pay for testing.  Tough times require tough measures.

[Arvedis]

I'm not seeing a decline of interest in Bigfoot. Just for leisurely scrolling I an subscribed to tons of FB groups. What I am seeing is more groups emerging. Same questions and comments in all of them. People thinking Bobo is an authority on the subject as well as David Paulides, who oddly enough, doesn't have to comment on Bigfoot to be an assumed Bigfoot expert (even though here never claimed to be).

 

Same photos or varieties of photos offering nothing new at all. People with experiences they don't know who else to inform.

 

Doesn't seem like much has changed over the years in bigfootery except the medium.

[MIB]

22 hours ago, Arvedis said:

authority on the subject as well as David Paulides, who oddly enough, doesn't have to comment on Bigfoot to be an assumed Bigfoot expert

 

Paulides has two bigfoot books out there, Tribal Bigfoot and The Hoopa Project, which predate the Missing 411 "stuff."    Until bigfoot's existence is proven and accepted by science, there is no such thing as an expert, but he knows about as much as there is known by anyone.   (I'm not singling him out, you can say the same about any other more or less full time researcher who has put in the time .. they're all up against the same ceiling.) 

 

MIB