Guest Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 , when it comes to paranormal vs. non paranormal..... both camps seem to have provided about the same amount of undeniable proof.......imo. I agree slick...I don't believe in the paranormal of any sort, if it existed surely someone would have dowsed, spoon bent, or psychiced there way to randi's 1 million(spare me the "million dollar challenge is a fraud", the money is there go get it)...Having said that what is more plausible? 1) BF's are real flesh and blood creatures w/ a breeding pop. that have evaded being caught dead or alive for hundreds of years? 2)BF's are interdimensional beings that can disappear at will, which is why they avoid being caught. Personally I give as much credit to each Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitakaze Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Are there other psychic animal species? Are you ready for the tsunami of people that will say, "Yes. Humans,"? An ESP/Bigfoot proponent can throw a wall of psychic Bigfoot reports and then a wall of ESP reports and studies at you. You will be one fortean enthusiast confounded by another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FuriousGeorge Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Can we train a psychic animal to find bigfoot? Like that octopus that picks soccer matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LAL Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Anything we cannot at first understand is thought to be magic or extra normal. BFs might just be very good at what they do. As a side note a BF account in another language might have been mistranslated. "Disappeared into the woods" might be translated as " disappeared", for example. Good point. I just finished reading Dmitri Bayanov's In the Footsteps of the Russian Snowman. In it he suggested hominoids take to the trees which would explain trackways suddenly ending. I don't see this happening with an 8' sasquatch, necessarily, but young, agile ones - why not? As for telepathy, sasquatches speaking "in my head" and the like, these things may be more a matter for neurology than primatology, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wudewasa Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Instead of beating on the MM pinata, just use this forum for a wider range of discussion. The mental image of said person in pinata form is sooooo tempting to visit, but I won't go there! While the "psychsquatch" theory is hardly palatable, the accounts of being "zapped" by bigfoot infrasound are also highly debatable, as we have no current method to document and quantify the use of infrasound by this purported species. While psychic images and projection have never been documented by scientific methods, a number of animals use infrasound to communicate. With no data to support either claims, this is a slippery slope to traverse. Here is a BFF thread on infrasound- http://bigfootforums.com/index.php?/topic/1594-infra-sound-and-getting-zapped/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dudlow Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 IMO Matt Moneymaker has done a creditable job given the difficulties anyone would face if they were leading a public investigation aimed at proving the existence of BF as a real species. Yes, his BFRO organization has had its ups and downs over the years and MM's personal rants and sparring have given him an occasionally mean spirited and almost always controversial reputation. But he has hung in for the duration, so far. I can't fault him for his beliefs and his pursuit of those beliefs, whether I agree with him or not. In the corporate world of business an employee's job is to give the boss what he wants, regardless of whether the employee agrees with things or not. MM has fired many BFRO adherents over the years and there has been the occasional mass departure from BFRO ranks because of MM's demands of his personnel. But MM has survived and still seems to run the joint. Who knows, he may yet be the one to crack the case. - Dudlow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigtex Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Matt's legacy will always be the BFRO, and its amazing data base.......hail to Matt for that. But he will never have a meaningful Bigfoot sighting using the silly methods they use on his new TV show, or past shows for that matter......this is pure entertainment and television. IMO.....visible technology has been proven NOT to work time and time again. The Big Lug ain't dumb. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Thepattywagon Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 If the general consensus on Bigfoot was that it was able to go poof and become invisible, I would have much less interest in the subject than I do now. My personal opinion of MM and his methods aside, I agree that he is wise to avoid the 'paranormal' aspects surrounding the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BitterMonk Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 No. Not their stealth. It's their ability to predict lotto numbers that makes them psychic. And it's their unwillingness to share those numbers that makes them just plain mean in my book. Outstanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bipedalist Posted June 24, 2011 BFF Patron Share Posted June 24, 2011 Matt's legacy will always be the BFRO, and its amazing data base.......hail to Matt for that. But he will never have a meaningful Bigfoot sighting using the silly methods they use on his new TV show, or past shows for that matter......this is pure entertainment and television. IMO.....visible technology has been proven NOT to work time and time again. The Big Lug ain't dumb. Big thumbs up on this post. I think part of the problem is some of the more refined techniques which are claimed to be invented by some personnel (such as the false camp) are just too boring to anticipate and plan for in an entertainment situation on TV. Bun-bun could have been left in a false camp and everybody high tailed it to a campsite with a view somewhere for example. JMHO. And then again, maybe they don't wish to reveal such techniques, only the producers, main characters and crew know what was discussed in the planning stages and what ideas didn't make the cut. There are a couple episodes left so maybe the refined techniques have yet to be revealed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Yeti1974 Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 IMO Matt Moneymaker has done a creditable job given the difficulties anyone would face if they were leading a public investigation aimed at proving the existence of BF as a real species. Yes, his BFRO organization has had its ups and downs over the years and MM's personal rants and sparring have given him an occasionally mean spirited and almost always controversial reputation. But he has hung in for the duration, so far. I can't fault him for his beliefs and his pursuit of those beliefs, whether I agree with him or not. In the corporate world of business an employee's job is to give the boss what he wants, regardless of whether the employee agrees with things or not. MM has fired many BFRO adherents over the years and there has been the occasional mass departure from BFRO ranks because of MM's demands of his personnel. But MM has survived and still seems to run the joint. Who knows, he may yet be the one to crack the case. - Dudlow I'm increasingly coming to this evaluation myself. It's almost like that Star Trek: The Next Generation episode about the Borg, where a "mean" captain replaces Picard to fight the Borg. Nobody liked him, he caused trouble among the crew, but he got the job done. Sometimes you need that kind of person to move things along, someone who's not there be be liked or make friends necessarily. Or maybe it's just the nature of Bigfooting, being a quirky specialty interest, that attracts quirky, hard-to-get-along-with people. Don't forget that Rene Dahinden also had this kind of rep, and the "old school" researchers/investigators (Green, Byrne, etc.) also butted heads with eachother repeatedly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted June 24, 2011 Admin Share Posted June 24, 2011 I'm definitely not on board with Matt and his BFRO cohorts in terms of the way they do things. But by the same token I'm not here to judge them either, it's their forum. I found this forum after some difficulties on theirs and I haven't really looked back. This is a public forum for all ideas to come together, no matter how strange or bizarre or controversial. Their forum is a tightly controlled oligarchy, either you tow the party line, or the beatings will continue until morale improves. My problem wasn't that I was pro physic Sasquatch...........my problem was that I was pro kill. And even though I tried to mind my P's and Q's over there, the fact that I had a pro kill mindset oozed out in discussions and peeved the moderators off. Sometimes my posts were deleted, or my threads were locked. *shrugs* I really hold no ill will towards any of them, and I hope they hold no ill will towards me, but we simply were not a match made in heaven by any means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bipedalist Posted June 24, 2011 BFF Patron Share Posted June 24, 2011 ....visible technology has been proven NOT to work time and time again. The Big Lug ain't dumb. Missed this part, I believe they do slip up--- with digital sound recording efforts and devices increasingly picking up on their whereabouts, whether it be distant or near. In an earlier thread a poster asked, "Why do they sneak around cams while leaving audio evidence around digital recorders? or a paraphrase of such." That IS a good point, especially when there are occasions when lost technology such as guns, recorders and such have been returned to a scene rather demonstratively.....doesn't sound like a monkey to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Welcome to BFF. par·a·nor·mal [par-uh-nawr-muhl] adjective of or pertaining to the claimed occurrence of an event or perception without scientific explanation, as psychokinesis, extrasensory perception, or other purportedly supernatural phenomena. "Paranormal" certainly does have a connotation of being supernatural, or beyond what is natural. I'm not a fan of Moneymaker by any stretch, but bigfoot isn't necessarily paranormal. There are those here that believe they are, that they're capable of dematerialization and "mind-speak" telepathy, but that's still an unproven opinion. Those with the best self-proclaimed opportunity to prove anything seem remarkably least willing to do so. Odd, that..... Or not. I always enjoy your input, and I agree with you. Let's get the species *recognized* by main stream science and the world *before* we add too many paranormal abilities that this species may have, or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 (edited) Okay so I have something to share in this opportune topic. Not about the paranormal stuff, even though I believe its important to be able to discuss all theories and claims with any unsolved mystery. So that issue aside at that forum, just look at how every thread in the Finding Bigfoot section has been closed by Navigator. lol Yes, Navigator IS Matt Moneymaker! Closing threads with only one or two responses is HIS way of controlling what people can and can't think or discuss. He doesn't like that his own members are also questioning his very poor research techniques. That's funny too because I think he actually believes in himself. Yes he has certainly become BAD for the field. Are his methods a typical sign of a megalomaniac? Does anyone else besides me have this image of him with an oversized head that gets bigger and bigger and is about to explode? But the worst part of it is the level of what he considers evidence. Just about everything seems like evidence to him. That is, as long as there is a promotional value. Well that's simply not honest research in my book! As some of you know, Animal Planet did some filming in my area and they are coming back too. One of the target pieces of evidence MM relentlessly pursued was the McKenzie Footage. Its nothing but a blurry dark figure. Yet look at the unbalanced need on his part to make it appear to be more. Why? Because there is another underlying agenda. I'm sure he impressed upon the show that they just had to investigate it. MM needed it because its in my backyard. Why? I guess its because I am a threat to him, being I challenge his poor examples of bigfoot evidence. So for anyone wondering why he pursued it the way he did, look no further. The funny thing is, disclosure of the original footage by the owners would immediately close the door on it too. Shame on them for not doing so. They know it was just a person. I am acquainted with them and the site, so I don't say that without some personal insight. They got their 15 minutes of fame too. Of course even without the original footage, it just requires a bit of sincere analysis to see things don't add up as bigfoot. Especially in the frames just before the fully dark figure, where he has a light head. The film is also spliced right then too! Slow the original down, you'll see. Of course the show neglected to mention things like the two campsites 40 feet away or the popular McKenzie River Trail just on the other side of the river in full view. Of course it was also prime time for running rivers by recreationists. THAT SPOT is where people scout Fishladder Rapids!!! What a joke. Anyway, see through MM's agenda and how he has used that footage for other purpose. That's a little person who must follow that path. I am a bit disheartened at how nearly everyone involved has milked that piece of footage and sold out principle. I would never have compromised them like that. That said, I have received a great honor this week, maybe actually a badge of honor everyone can share. You see, Matt MoneyMaker has personally demanded that his production company make sure I am not allowed to visit Ike's Pizza when they return this Sunday. As I was told by my friend Toby, the production company didn't want to have to deal with MM. (Funny how many people at the recent Oregon symposium cleansed themselves of BFRO publicly too, but there is always new blood) Anyway I guess my pursuit of truthful investigation and accountability got under his skin. lol But I must admit, what higher endorsement of character is there then to have MM not want me present? I will continue to utilize my experience with sasquatch and the outdoors in my conclusions, tough if he doesn't like it! I do relish that he will never have the same level of encounters as I have. So now along with MoneyMaker's wild berating of just about everyone over at Cryptomundo, he has graciously singled me out for being critical of his research & his cheesy methods. Interestingly there does seem to be rumors floating around too about what may be his limited film career after his uncontrolled rude derision over at Cryptomundo. He actually seemed to be losing it there big time in his rants and he has probably lost what little respect he had left. I can also easily see Cliff B. taking over as Finding Bigfoot Team Leader too. I'm sure that must be seriously eating at MM about now... That's Hollywood though, where everyone is expendable. Contracts are meant to be re-written. I am glad he knows I know. Anyway, during their last visit here, I wore a lanyard with a 2" X 3" message on it that said: "Independent Footer - Not with BFRO". I wasn't at all disruptive either as I am generally a very quiet person. I just stood there and observed. But I guess my presence was just too much for him to handle. lol Is it because I have the guts to question various pieces of evidence that he has perpetuated over the years? I'm guessing the last thing he wants around now is someone who is capable and articulate enough to expose those things. What a little man you are Matt. So since the last thing MM would want is for my little sign to be seen by others, how can I not help but respond in some creative manner? So I will be producing those badges, maybe as buttons, and they will be available soon at my Blog. In the future MM will see the fruits of his actions in these proud Badges Of Honor worn by others wherever he goes. So please keep an eye on my blog for their arrival. I've even done a slight redesign from the photo below. I'll have to charge a few bucks for mfg and shipping, but I'll make it easy as possible to get them to your door. Not sure if the lanyard will be part of it however. What is most unfortunate is that he was able to get others to further his will when even the film crew has grown weary of him. More troubling is his local impact. For that I am disappointed in some people who didn't know how to take a stand. But MM knows human nature and that people will do whatever he wants in order for them to reach the same carrot, especially when the iron is hot. Everyone is being driven by greed. The restaurant sees no option if they are going to be in the spotlight. Its sad though that some couldn't gather up the courage just to tell him 'go to hell!'. Its even sadder that my friends who are caught up in the limelight couldn't differentiate the importance of doing so. People sold out truth in order to chase fame and attention. That has NOTHING to do with research, and that path generally reveals a bit more about people. Such pursuits will also never lead to a quality encounter with a sasquatch either. But that is their decision to live with. I have had my encounters because I was true to my heart about it. Maybe some people don't know what that really means? Does this also mean I'm not on MM's Christmas list? Edited June 24, 2011 by PragmaticTheorist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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