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Catmandoo
7 hours ago, RedHawk454 said:

See the right hand bottom left?

 

Image result for skunk ape

 

This hoax was debunked many years ago.

 

1 hour ago, 7.62 said:

Maybe I guess but still will go back to those being the very small minority  of researchers . It takes a very special type of person to fall into that category .

A researcher who has indisputable proof  but decides to keep it only to themselves is not common in my opinion . I would go as far as saying it would only be a hand full of people so to speak.

 

 

 

Have you considered the potential behavior of the lunatic fringe? Hypothetically speaking, you submit 'your proof'. Think the crazies will be at your front door?  Check out ' Dr. Johnson' in Oregon. He went over to the other side eventually. 

 

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wiiawiwb
2 hours ago, Huntster said:

I'm not so sure about some of those organizations. For example, consider BFRO. I think after "Finding Bigfoot", and after their successful "expeditions", where they charge people lots of money for camping trips where little rocks get tossed at you in the dark, and thumping on trees can be heard in the distance, maybe "discovery" (where government takes complete control of the "industry") might not be such a great thing..........

 

I have my suspicions but I can't say with any degree of certainty how far off the beaten path, how far from the road, many Bigfoot expeditions really go.   Little rocks being tossed at me would be an absolutely HUGE thing where I typically like to go.  Given my preference for being miles from civilization,  it would mean I'm quite comfortable that rock wasn't thrown by a hoaxer.

 

The same can be said of tree knocking. The farther you go from humanity, the less likely you are being hoaxed. Almost two years ago, I had two tree knocks which were in response to my single knock.  They both came from two different locations and both were so close to me my immediate reaction was, "Oh my God!".  One came from across the pond and the other from the same side of the pond as me.  It was late at night, pitch black outside, and the knock across the pond came from a vast swampy area you wouldn't dare go by day.  That wood knock location was only accessible by going past my location unless you like wading through a half mile of swamp, in the dark,  in hopes of responding to some human who might wood knock.

 

The recent addition of a decent thermal imager means I'll have a fighting chance to confirm on "film" who, or what, it was that threw that little rock should one be thrown at me in the future.

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Huntster
1 hour ago, 7.62 said:

That was before they discovered more of them , at first they thought it was a child .but after more discoveries the arguments stopped .

I have to disagree with you on the indisputable proof  , I believe with a body  it would be established  or even a recent skeletal remains would be enough (not fossilized ones). I agree that there will always be some bozo saying something or other  but in the end science would prevail on it being a new discovered animal .

 

Correct. Just like with Homo floresiensis, the truth would be recignized even though dissenters might continue with excuses and denials. 

 

But notice how the Homo floresiensis find initially spurred interest in ebo gogo? Now we hear nothing. Us that because "they" still deny th reports of those things in the region? Or is it because they're just really quiet about their continued research?

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norseman

I was told here by an old member that the BFRO expeditions he was a member of?

 

Cadre went in a couple of days before the customers and the expedition had certain rules like nobody was allowed out of their tents after midnight.....

 

It all seemed rather Kindergarten to me. And quite frankly with turning a profit? The frame work was in place to plant evidence, and events before the expedition got there or after they were in bed.

 

On top of all that? Expedition members are not allowed to carry firearms! It would be a shame if cadre got shot throwing peebles at peoples tents at 1 AM.

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Huntster
44 minutes ago, wiiawiwb said:

 

I have my suspicions but I can't say with any degree of certainty how far off the beaten path, how far from the road, many Bigfoot expeditions really go.   Little rocks being tossed at me would be an absolutely HUGE thing where I typically like to go.  Given my preference for being miles from civilization,  it would mean I'm quite comfortable that rock wasn't thrown by a hoaxer.........

 

I don't want to accuse bugfoot safari organizers of playing games with their customers, but it would certainly be easy to do.

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RedHawk454
2 hours ago, Catmandoo said:

 

This hoax was debunked many years ago.

 

 

Have you considered the potential behavior of the lunatic fringe? Hypothetically speaking, you submit 'your proof'. Think the crazies will be at your front door?  Check out ' Dr. Johnson' in Oregon. He went over to the other side eventually. 

 

 

 

You say it’s debunked but don’t substantiate the claim.  

19 minutes ago, Huntster said:

 

I don't want to accuse bugfoot safari organizers of playing games with their customers, but it would certainly be easy to do.

 

 

Its why I don’t trust Bigfoot safari type guys or Sasquatch stores.

58 minutes ago, norseman said:

I was told here by an old member that the BFRO expeditions he was a member of?

 

Cadre went in a couple of days before the customers and the expedition had certain rules like nobody was allowed out of their tents after midnight.....

 

It all seemed rather Kindergarten to me. And quite frankly with turning a profit? The frame work was in place to plant evidence, and events before the expedition got there or after they were in bed.

 

On top of all that? Expedition members are not allowed to carry firearms! It would be a shame if cadre got shot throwing peebles at peoples tents at 1 AM.

 

 

Im not an experienced outdoorsman.  I’m rly not.  But I find these Sasquatch tours fir profit programs asinine

 

theres a lot of profit agents out there

 

 

 

 

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MIB
1 hour ago, Huntster said:

I don't want to accuse bugfoot safari organizers of playing games with their customers, but it would certainly be easy to do.

 

I've been on one BFRO trip.   I found it thoroughly enjoyable and I have every intention of going again with the same group of organizers.   Sure, it cost a little money, but compared to other activities, it seemed overall a bargain.  There was no hoaxing, no hype.   If there were I would call them out on it. 

 

I don't care about the for profit aspect.     I used to be a fishing guide.   Do you think somehow being paid disqualified me from teaching people to fish, teaching them about the local flora and fauna, history, etc?    I don't.  And I don't see this as any different.    No bigfoots are guaranteed.   You know what?  I could not legally guarantee fish, either.   

 

MIB

 

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Huntster
6 minutes ago, MIB said:

......... I used to be a fishing guide.   Do you think somehow being paid disqualified me from teaching people to fish, teaching them about the local flora and fauna, history, etc?    I don't.  And I don't see this as any different.    No bigfoots are guaranteed.   You know what?  I could not legally guarantee fish, either.   

 

Guides of all kinds (hunting, fishing, tourism, etc) are legitimate workers who provide guidance. I've never hired a hunting guide, but I have salt water fishing charters. The charter operators I've hired in Alaska were all very knowledgable and informative. 

 

But there was just another master hunting guide the other day in Alaska who got his license revoked for life for illegal practices hunting bears. It happens. 

 

Do you think you had any sasquatch experiences on your trip?

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norseman
51 minutes ago, MIB said:

 

I've been on one BFRO trip.   I found it thoroughly enjoyable and I have every intention of going again with the same group of organizers.   Sure, it cost a little money, but compared to other activities, it seemed overall a bargain.  There was no hoaxing, no hype.   If there were I would call them out on it. 

 

I don't care about the for profit aspect.     I used to be a fishing guide.   Do you think somehow being paid disqualified me from teaching people to fish, teaching them about the local flora and fauna, history, etc?    I don't.  And I don't see this as any different.    No bigfoots are guaranteed.   You know what?  I could not legally guarantee fish, either.   

 

MIB

 

 

How do you know there is no hoaxing?

 

Are those wood knocks out there a BFRO cadre with a stick? Howls? Etc.

 

I dont trust "no kill" people looking to turn a buck. They can just do this forever.

 

If you were a fishing guide that never produced a client ONE fish? Kinda like the BFRO guides have never produced ONE Bigfoot? That would be on par with each other....

 

But of course you did! While not a guarantee?

 

The two examples do not reside on the same planet!

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Catmandoo
2 hours ago, RedHawk454 said:

You say it’s debunked but don’t substantiate the claim.

 

You are a newbie. My comments for you to take under advisory are: be very careful about posting images that are not your own and look at, bookmark ;    www.bigfootencounters.com        There is a section " Hoaxes & Rumors". There is a line;  "another page with hoax listings", go there. The 2001 Myakka Skunk Ape.  People in Florida want tourist dollars. One avenue is the 'Skunk Ape'.

I don't agree with some of Bobby Short's postings but it should be required viewing for rookies.

Also, do a Google search for Myakka Skunk Ape. The Japanese  have costumes with molded in teeth. 

 

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wiiawiwb
1 hour ago, MIB said:

 

I've been on one BFRO trip.   I found it thoroughly enjoyable and I have every intention of going again with the same group of organizers.   Sure, it cost a little money, but compared to other activities, it seemed overall a bargain.  There was no hoaxing, no hype.   If there were I would call them out on it. 

 

I don't care about the for profit aspect.     I used to be a fishing guide.   Do you think somehow being paid disqualified me from teaching people to fish, teaching them about the local flora and fauna, history, etc?    I don't.  And I don't see this as any different.    No bigfoots are guaranteed.   You know what?  I could not legally guarantee fish, either.   

 

MIB

 

 

MIB, are there any other sasquatch groups within driving distance for you to join and go on outings? That way you could get the camaraderie of the group and enjoyment of an outing/expedition without paying a nickel.

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RedHawk454
8 hours ago, Catmandoo said:

 

You are a newbie. My comments for you to take under advisory are: be very careful about posting images that are not your own and look at, bookmark ;    www.bigfootencounters.com        There is a section " Hoaxes & Rumors". There is a line;  "another page with hoax listings", go there. The 2001 Myakka Skunk Ape.  People in Florida want tourist dollars. One avenue is the 'Skunk Ape'.

I don't agree with some of Bobby Short's postings but it should be required viewing for rookies.

Also, do a Google search for Myakka Skunk Ape. The Japanese  have costumes with molded in teeth. 

 

 

 

Relax, It’s only the internet.  The myakka skunk ape photos are some of the most circulated Bigfoot photos they are more or less in the public domain.  And I do understand your POV with hoaxes and tourist $$$.

Edited by RedHawk454

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WSA

I made my peace with this whole subject when I realized all proof is personal. Everybody has to make that journey if they pursue the evidence, at their own pace, and within their own boundaries for comfort. It is not my job/mission/quest to convince anyone, or supply answers on demand to satisfy their own arbitrary deadlines, or demands to have their uncertainty allayed.  In discussions with others, when the subject comes up, I only tic off the top four or five arguments for existence, but I always lead with this statement: "You've already seen a sasquatch (i.e. Patty)...you just might not be ready to deal with what that means to your worldview. I get that. It was very, very hard for me too ".   I do know that if they are a person with reasonable intelligence, curiosity and time at their disposal, they will more than probably come around to the same conclusions many of us have reached, in the same way. My dispute with so many naysayers over the years is they want the easy way out...to have either their fears assuaged or their curiosity satisfied on demand. There is just something inherently lazy and au currant about that attitude that gets all over me. If you have done the work, and your conclusions differ from mine, one day we'll all solve the great mystery and find out who was correct when we get to the other side. Until then, vio con dios amigo.    

 

As for habituators and others who we might think "should" share their evidence with the world? They don't owe me a thing. I've already made my conclusions.   

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NathanFooter
11 hours ago, norseman said:

 

How do you know there is no hoaxing?

 

Are those wood knocks out there a BFRO cadre with a stick? Howls? Etc.

 

I dont trust "no kill" people looking to turn a buck. They can just do this forever.

 

If you were a fishing guide that never produced a client ONE fish? Kinda like the BFRO guides have never produced ONE Bigfoot? That would be on par with each other....

 

But of course you did! While not a guarantee?

 

The two examples do not reside on the same planet!

 

 I work for the BFRO and have attended ( 2011 MI,  2012 MI UP, 2016 OR ) and now organize expeditions here in Washington state.    I can clear up a few opinions of what the policies are.

 

 The BFRO does not guide you out to gander at Sasquatch the way people do at animals in Yellowstone and nor do we put you on a pack-horse into the most remote locations where a tire may not have met the road in a decade to prepare for a 6 month grant program to be the next Jane G.  This is a common misconception of what we are about as an organization ( I am not speaking for ever single expedition or organizer, some members have their own code of ethics and conduct ). The BFRO as a whole provides a form of education on the entire subject and  how it relates to area ecology and history.  Folks have the opportunity to learn and connect with BFRO members for guidance on some of the points below.   

 

 We provide  attendees to accessible locations that repeatedly generate reports at particular times of the year, we put people in the best position possible to have an experience but we do not promise anything except research methodology and environmental education.  We give directed presentations on witness evaluation, reported behavior, field operations, implementation of thermal/audio technology and basic ecology.       We also offer classes on habitat evaluation, report documentation,  data mapping,  track casting, DNA collection and nighttime observation.  We offer perspective, knowledge, methods, tools and hands on experience so you can go out on your own and maximize your odds of encountering these animals.

 

 It is not impossible that hoaxing does take place on a small percentage of expeditions, both attendees and X-members have been caught in the past doing so. I can speak for the majority of the western US expeds as being honest and professional in nature, no monkey business.   Honestly it is getting more and more difficult to hoax in events like this because of thermal cameras and drones ( the BFRO has a number of units ).

 

 On the expeditions I have been a part of we did allow folks to have handguns as long as they abide by the laws of the region and do not make presence of it in group settings. That being said some organizers are exception as they personally feel the risk of something going wrong is high, having a bunch of folk running around in the dark all jazzed up over something popping in the bush could end badly.   On another note,  if an attendee was inclined to try and hoax something then there is a possibility they themselves could be hurt or worse if another person carrying reacts incorrectly. 

 

 I had never heard that attendees had to stay in their tents, that is new to me.  On the expeditions I have been a part of we actually encourage folks to stay out as late as 3 am to try and provoke interaction or possibly get something to follow groups back toward base-camp . We do setup folks in groups to be moved with a member or repeater, this is a safety policy so nobody is hurt or lost.

 

 Fishing is very different than looking for sasquatch,  you need to have a basic species knowledge, rod, tackle, a pole and a license to go fishing.   In the subject of Sasquatch it takes a great deal of time, skill, money and luck, there is still far to much that is unknown about this creature for anyone to really have any measurable degree of success.  This forum has nearly endless mentions of the challenges in Bigfoot that range from interest to population size.

 

 I am not going to argue that this is the best way to go about getting people involved or even reaching the goal, I do however believe it is the best way have at this time.  We have very little support in this subject to really make strides toward fishing guide success rates, most of the time and money going toward active members goes back into equipment, gas and projects related to conducting field research. I promise you, nobody is getting rich off of doing this.

 

 The reality is that the research community is maybe 5% the size that Facebook says it is and you can bet the bottom dollar that most of them started with the BFRO.

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norseman
1 hour ago, NathanFooter said:

 

 I work for the BFRO and have attended ( 2011 MI,  2012 MI UP, 2016 OR ) and now organize expeditions here in Washington state.    I can clear up a few opinions of what the policies are.

 

 The BFRO does not guide you out to gander at Sasquatch the way people do at animals in Yellowstone and nor do we put you on a pack-horse into the most remote locations where a tire may not have met the road in a decade to prepare for a 6 month grant program to be the next Jane G.  This is a common misconception of what we are about as an organization ( I am not speaking for ever single expedition or organizer, some members have their own code of ethics and conduct ). The BFRO as a whole provides a form of education on the entire subject and  how it relates to area ecology and history.  Folks have the opportunity to learn and connect with BFRO members for guidance on some of the points below.   

 

 We provide  attendees to accessible locations that repeatedly generate reports at particular times of the year, we put people in the best position possible to have an experience but we do not promise anything except research methodology and environmental education.  We give directed presentations on witness evaluation, reported behavior, field operations, implementation of thermal/audio technology and basic ecology.       We also offer classes on habitat evaluation, report documentation,  data mapping,  track casting, DNA collection and nighttime observation.  We offer perspective, knowledge, methods, tools and hands on experience so you can go out on your own and maximize your odds of encountering these animals.

 

 It is not impossible that hoaxing does take place on a small percentage of expeditions, both attendees and X-members have been caught in the past doing so. I can speak for the majority of the western US expeds as being honest and professional in nature, no monkey business.   Honestly it is getting more and more difficult to hoax in events like this because of thermal cameras and drones ( the BFRO has a number of units ).

 

 On the expeditions I have been a part of we did allow folks to have handguns as long as they abide by the laws of the region and do not make presence of it in group settings. That being said some organizers are exception as they personally feel the risk of something going wrong is high, having a bunch of folk running around in the dark all jazzed up over something popping in the bush could end badly.   On another note,  if an attendee was inclined to try and hoax something then there is a possibility they themselves could be hurt or worse if another person carrying reacts incorrectly. 

 

 I had never heard that attendees had to stay in their tents, that is new to me.  On the expeditions I have been a part of we actually encourage folks to stay out as late as 3 am to try and provoke interaction or possibly get something to follow groups back toward base-camp . We do setup folks in groups to be moved with a member or repeater, this is a safety policy so nobody is hurt or lost.

 

 Fishing is very different than looking for sasquatch,  you need to have a basic species knowledge, rod, tackle, a pole and a license to go fishing.   In the subject of Sasquatch it takes a great deal of time, skill, money and luck, there is still far to much that is unknown about this creature for anyone to really have any measurable degree of success.  This forum has nearly endless mentions of the challenges in Bigfoot that range from interest to population size.

 

 I am not going to argue that this is the best way to go about getting people involved or even reaching the goal, I do however believe it is the best way have at this time.  We have very little support in this subject to really make strides toward fishing guide success rates, most of the time and money going toward active members goes back into equipment, gas and projects related to conducting field research. I promise you, nobody is getting rich off of doing this.

 

 The reality is that the research community is maybe 5% the size that Facebook says it is and you can bet the bottom dollar that most of them started with the BFRO.

 

As I said, the information I had was old. As old as I have been a member here? Probably 10 years?

 

 

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