The case for Homo Erectus

[Arvedis]

29 minutes ago, ShadowBorn said:

It's like this , when your mind is made up that these creatures should be  giganto/Paranthropus it is hard to change  away from that theory. But when science keeps leading down that same path and does not sway away. Well then it is time to start chasing the rabbit that is leading you away from the real path. That rabbit is just going to get you lost in the woods.

 

Now I remember that sample  that they got up in Canada .  I cannot talk bad about Dr.disotell since he is a Dr. in his field. Dr. Nelson should have removed himself from the testing since he was a part of the research team. But in a way it worked in the favor of the creature. Again the sample came out to be some what Human and no matter how hard he tried to make the sample to come in favor of Dr. Meldrum he could not do it. It was even proven by Wayne state Unirversity. ( http://alamas.ru/eng/publicat/DNA_of_Bigfoot_e.htm ).   They do not want part that these creatures be of Human origin. May it be against what they believe spiritually or may it be heresy. After all we are talking about a creature that does not fit what we have been told to believe.  These things do make people un comfortable including myself. 

 

19 minutes ago, Willystyle said:

It’s very simple, all the preliminary results came back as being very close to Homo sapien. Meldrum has staked the last 25 years of his career on it being a gigantopithecus though. He’s only just started taking about Paranthropus being a possible explanation the last few years because he’s not finding any evidence to bridge the connection to gigantopithecus. Barackman and Stroud and all these guys aren’t going to name a more likely explanation because Meldrum is essentially the only person with a PhD behind his name who takes any of this stuff seriously. Without him and his credentials the entire Sasquatch movement essentially just falls back into being another chapter in cryptozoology.I do agree that Barackman does seem to be at least be open to a more likely explanation though as his very words to me were only that “it’s not human” which leaves a lot of wiggle room for interpretation. 

 

I know Meldrum has the Giganto skull in his office but I have never heard him say he is behind that theory. In fact, he seems to talk it down. His relict hominoid theory is his main outreach. I have also never heard him say he is against BF being from the human lineage. He will often refer to continual archaeological finds and seems to feel BF is another as yet undiscovered scientific specimen.

[Willystyle]

10 minutes ago, Arvedis said:

know Meldrum has the Giganto skull in his office but I have never heard him say he is behind that theory.

Have you attended one of his talks or read “Sasquatch: Legend Meets Science”?? Heck this is one of the emails he sent to me on this very topic.

[hiflier]

49 minutes ago, Willystyle said:

It’s very simple, all the preliminary results came back as being very close to Homo sapien

 

I need to respectfully disagree, Willystyle. Rather than try to explain it in my own words I chose to "fix" the above quote.

 

As an add-on I think Dr. Meldrum's 3D printed Sasquatch skeleton has Gigantopithicus for its head.

Edited September 9, 2019 by hiflier

[Willystyle]

14 minutes ago, hiflier said:

1 hour ago, Willystyle said:

It’s very simple, all the preliminary results came back as being very close to Homo sapien

 

I need to respectfully disagree, Willystyle. Rather than try to explain it in my own words I chose to "fix" the above quote.

Actually I don’t disagree with that whatsoever. There’s got to be something else there to account for all the hair and the gigantism bit Homo sapien cognatus may have actually been a reasonably appropriate scientific name.

[ShadowBorn]

The one thing that blows the Paranthropus is it's height . They were not that tall which leaves them out of what we are seeing today. The Paranthropus was only 4' high and that is not what is being seen. Which only leaves us with the one option of that of Gigantopithecus. The only DnA that I think we have is the tooth that was found in China which was a mauler I believe . The thing is I am not sure if that has been tested and if it has then this should be in the data base which would have showed up on samples found. So now this only leaves us with an unknown species or an unknown Human. If it is a unknown Human then this would make it a discovery of the century which any sciencetist  would want to have their name on it.

 

I am still sticking with it being Human .

 

I have never met with Dr.Meldrum and had missed him when he came to Michigan. But as a witness to these creatures and the experience I have had I would truly question and challenge him on his theory. My son might even question his theory as well. 

[Willystyle]

46 minutes ago, Willystyle said:

 

I also admit that Paranthropus does have the conical saggital crest like a Sasquatch does and it’s also got the characteristically long arms however one of my first anthro professors told me once in a human evolution course that if you saw a Paranthropus you’d probably think you were just looking at an upright walking silverback gorilla. Would an upright walking gorilla have Homo sapien dna with only one base pair deviation?? It’s got to be something more recent and more related to modern man. 

[Arvedis]

Meldrum must specialize in doublespeak then. I've heard him contradict other folks who propose Giganto.

[NathanFooter]

4 hours ago, hiflier said:

 

After much deep thought and investigations I've come to what I think for me is an important conclusion: Money has NEVER been the issue. Period. But how to make the most money OFF of it is. Those five samples from the Olympic Peninsula nesting site that languished for a year and a half? Because of measly $5,000? Is one of the biggest jokes played on the community to date. And considering all of the hoaxes that have been perpetrated that's saying a lot. I've said it once and I'll say it again,  something is seriously wrong with that picture. There hasn't been one peep about the nest find OR the e-DNA sequencing from anyone since those two podcasts- Meldrum a year ago this month and Disotell last December. And I don't see ANY high profile people in Bigfootdom seeing what I'm seeing or questioning anything that I have been questioning.

 

What is wrong with these people? I've seen nothing regarding any discussions with wildlife biologists, bear biologists, Department of Natural Resources....NOTHING. Don't tell me I'm the only one on this planet who dislikes how this whole thing has and is being played. There is NO SUMMARY from anyone anywhere about what, or who, made those nests. And even though science says there's no credible evidence for Bigfoot where is science and their scientists on these nests. The structures are real, they are physical evidence, and they are definitely in the high-strangeness category. I'll bet few in science even KNOWS about them. Everyone I've talked to are surprised when I tell them of the find. My own F&W didn't even know about them. What the hell is going on? 

 

 

 

 To be very blunt, you'r entirely wrong.     Money has ALWAYS been an issue, trust me.

 

 Derek and Shane gave a presentation at Squatchfest just a couple months ago and again at the Oregon Bigfoot festival.

 

 This is what happened, the DNA samples did get tested and many sources of DNA turned up ( mice, squirrels, birds, deer, possum, bear, human and horse ) in the E-DNA results.  If memory serves, there was both hairs tested and then also E-DNA samples from segments of the nests themselves.    I will ask Derek personally and respond as I get the specifics.

[Willystyle]

1 hour ago, Arvedis said:

Meldrum must specialize in doublespeak then. I've heard him contradict other folks who propose Giganto.

Would give your comment a thumbs up but it appears I’ve met my quota for the day. This email is about a year old so it’s possible Meldrum’s views have evolved a little bit. However based on the talk he gave this summer in Michigan he’s definitely still more or less firm in this original hypothesis. Funny thing is at the talk neither he nor Barackman even brought up the dna they’ve recovered from the tree nests. It’s like they’re whitewashing their own dna findings because they aren’t yielding the results that they want. It’s a shame Dr. Nelson doesn’t just take over the DNA stuff so we can actually move forward on a full genome sequencing rather than continually stalling on it. 

[Twist]

7 hours ago, Arvedis said:

Though I have to admit, my opinion of moneymaker has changed for the better. I found an obscure clip of him on a podcast where he spilled a lot of beans that make sense

 

Do you have a link to said podcast?

[SWWASAS]

I am in SE Alaska for the first time in about 25 years.    Last time here I was not into BF.      Looking at the Geology of Alaska today I think like someone mentioned, it does not point to a vegetarian being able to make the Bearing Bridge transit.    Giganto is not a good candidate.  ..     For anything to make the transit, they had to hug the ice sheet or top it to make the passage.   As those who have been here,  most of SE Alaska is dozens of islands.    Hugging coastal ice sheets would not get you very far unless you had boats to go island to island.     Topping the glaciers is a difficult transit because the ice is very rough and goes around all the higher terrain that even to this day is not scarred by the passage of the glaciers.    The peaks sticking above the glaciers are very sharp and rugged because the glaciers went around them.      What ever made that transit had to eat fish or meat.   I question the ability to make the transit without boats.    BF is not a boat builder.   Humans have for a very long time.    Perhaps BF came from South America?   Recent discoveries have make it likely that mankind was there long before travelers made the Bearing Bridge crossing.    Certainly there is history of apes in SA.    Key fossils may not have been discovered yet to give us the BF migration vector.    After all the camel originated in NA and migrated the other way. 

[Arvedis]

9 hours ago, starchunk said:

Likely because Standing is riding on Meldrum's and Stroud's reputational coattails.

 

Yep, and I begrudgingly give him credit for being able to do that. He babbled his way into Meldrum's sanctum and has lots of positive footage for himself as a result. With Stroud, any opportunities to get on reality TV is good PR so he became well known for that effort.

 

I really do dislike the guy so I'm not trying to legitimize him. Intentional or not he is using good sense and business skill to make a decent living off of his Bigfoot research.

 

8 hours ago, Willystyle said:

Correction: Meldrum would hem and haw with any proposed evidence thrown his way if it didn’t prove his giganto/Paranthropus theory. Guarantee if you handed him over so much as one single tooth that looked remotely ape-like he’d run with it. The guy may have literally proven the existence of Sasquatch with the Snelgrove Lake dna sample. Granted it wasn’t enough to map the entire genome off of but it did give us a good idea at what the origins of the species is since it’s only one base pair deviation away from being full homo sapien. He still will barely acknowledge that finding today though. When I emailed standing he told me that dna he had managed to obtain was being analyzed as “full giganto” according to some Chinese lab he supposedly works with. How TF does dna come back as “full giganto” when Science doesn’t have any other gigantopethecus dna to use as a standard of comparison? Which camp do you think he’s trying to wine and dine with bs conclusion like that?? I feel like the only reason we haven’t fully connected the dots between Sasquatch and homo erectus or Sasquatch and the infamous “mystery hominin” dna that keeps turning up is because no ancient Homo erectus dna has been recovered yet to compare to either.

 

I also admit that Paranthropus does have the conical saggital crest like a Sasquatch does and it’s also got the characteristically long arms however one of my first anthro professors told me once in a human evolution course that if you saw a Paranthropus you’d probably think you were just looking at an upright walking silverback gorilla. Would an upright walking gorilla have Homo sapien dna with only one base pair deviation?? It’s got to be something more recent and more related to modern man. 

 

Funny thing is at the talk neither he nor Barackman even brought up the dna they’ve recovered from the tree nests. It’s like they’re whitewashing their own dna findings because they aren’t yielding the results that they want. It’s a shame Dr. Nelson doesn’t just take over the DNA stuff so we can actually move forward on a full genome sequencing rather than continually stalling on it. 

 

A Chinese DNA lab? It should be interesting to see what comes of it.  Purely my armchair analysis: I don't see how any extinct species can be traced to BF without really solid DNA data which would be exhaustively reviewed for flaws if it ever made it into a per reviewed paper. As for the extinct hominin theory,  our science cannot even definitively link such a split with humans. That's been a holy grail for the field. Paleontologists would consider such theories sacred ground so it would be super tough to prove any link with an unknown species.

 

Nelson may not have the authority to use the sweet microbiology labs at U Minnesota at his leisure.  It comes down to expense. Someone has to pay that bill so either he gets a grant like all academics do or researchers focus on areas of their expertise (in Nelson's case, he is an insect specialist according to his bio).

 

7 hours ago, ShadowBorn said:

It's like this , when your mind is made up that these creatures should be  giganto/Paranthropus it is hard to change  away from that theory. But when science keeps leading down that same path and does not sway away. Well then it is time to start chasing the rabbit that is leading you away from the real path. That rabbit is just going to get you lost in the woods.

 

Now I remember that sample  that they got up in Canada .  I cannot talk bad about Dr.disotell since he is a Dr. in his field. Dr. Nelson should have removed himself from the testing since he was a part of the research team. But in a way it worked in the favor of the creature. Again the sample came out to be some what Human and no matter how hard he tried to make the sample to come in favor of Dr. Meldrum he could not do it. It was even proven by Wayne state Unirversity. ( http://alamas.ru/eng/publicat/DNA_of_Bigfoot_e.htm ).   They do not want part that these creatures be of Human origin. May it be against what they believe spiritually or may it be heresy. After all we are talking about a creature that does not fit what we have been told to believe.  These things do make people un comfortable including myself. 

 

According to that article, the sample was too small to do lots of testing on it since it was just bits of flesh from the Snelgrove nail board.  It was a one shot deal unfortunately or it might have held up to scientific scrutiny and the controversy that would have followed.

 

2 hours ago, Twist said:

Do you have a link to said podcast?

 

I'm embarrassed to admit it is from a podcast by a disreputable researcher. But, I gave it a listen because it touched on something I was looking into. If you run a search on YT for matt moneymaker podcasts, you will get hits.  I don't want a giant YT image plastered into this post but it's not hard to find. He doesn't do a lot of podcasts.

Edited September 10, 2019 by Arvedis

[Twist]

I’ll take a look.  Thanks.

[NatFoot]

On 9/9/2019 at 7:10 PM, NathanFooter said:

 

 To be very blunt, you'r entirely wrong.     Money has ALWAYS been an issue, trust me.

 

 Derek and Shane gave a presentation at Squatchfest just a couple months ago and again at the Oregon Bigfoot festival.

 

 This is what happened, the DNA samples did get tested and many sources of DNA turned up ( mice, squirrels, birds, deer, possum, bear, human and horse ) in the E-DNA results.  If memory serves, there was both hairs tested and then also E-DNA samples from segments of the nests themselves.    I will ask Derek personally and respond as I get the specifics.

 

I agree with hiflier here 100% and although he thanked your response, you didn't really do anything to answer his question.

 

Ok...so they spoke at some BF "conventions"?

 

C'mon now...then they aren't serious about it...and they're just about the $$$ or "fame" from these events. 

[starchunk]

On 9/9/2019 at 5:03 PM, Willystyle said:

I also admit that Paranthropus does have the conical saggital crest like a Sasquatch does and it’s also got the characteristically long arms however one of my first anthro professors told me once in a human evolution course that if you saw a Paranthropus you’d probably think you were just looking at an upright walking silverback gorilla. Would an upright walking gorilla have Homo sapien dna with only one base pair deviation?? It’s got to be something more recent and more related to modern man. 

 

Not all descriptions include the Sagital crest, the plus or the minus of which is still within the frailty of anecdotal evidence. The Giganto "theory" is still just braindead.

Edited September 12, 2019 by starchunk