The case for Homo Erectus

[starchunk]

5 minutes ago, SWWASAS said:

I think he puts too much weight on the fact that BF does not make and carry weapons.   He needs a giant ape.      Humans have made weapons for the better part of a million years but BF can run down most of its prey unlike us humans.   

 

That's simple anthromorphism at work and it's nonsense. Gorillas can learn sign language, and a few types of apes have been caught tool using, even crows have. Octopii are alarmingly intelligent. I saw a show offering the premise that the only thing hold them back is their inability to pass what they've learned to the next generation. Beyond that they are nothing like humans but oh so very smart. Orcas, whales, dolphins all have intelligence as well. 

 

Like I said he's more celebrity playing Scientist at this point in my opinion.

[SWWASAS]

I just saw an octopus at an aquarium that plays with toys.     It had grabbed and was holding several of them at a time.    It favorite was a plastic tea kettle that the handler used to pour water on it.  She said they are smarter than a house cat. 

[norseman]

31 minutes ago, SWWASAS said:

I think he puts too much weight on the fact that BF does not make and carry weapons.   He needs a giant ape.      Humans have made weapons for the better part of a million years but BF can run down most of its prey unlike us humans.   

 

But why would you if your smart enough to build a bow and arrow? Work smarter.... not harder right?

 

Its a conundrum.

[starchunk]

11 minutes ago, norseman said:

 

But why would you if your smart enough to build a bow and arrow? Work smarter.... not harder right?

 

Its a conundrum.

 

If they're omnivores and likely are, extra options would reduce the need, but with greater strength there's also lesser need. the invention of bow and arrow by man was to even the odds against predators bigger and badder than us. 

[norseman]

 

2 minutes ago, starchunk said:

 

If they're omnivores and likely are, extra options would reduce the need, but with greater strength there's also lesser need. the invention of bow and arrow by man was to even the odds against predators bigger and badder than us. 

 

If Sasquatch is a man as well? Thats puts them in the same boat as us.

 

Same common ancestor that lacked teeth and speed and strength that started making sharp objects to level the playing field.

 

Its still a conundrum why two species of the same Homo genus took such drastic differenent trajectories. As well as us, Sasquatch seems at odds with all other extinct species in our genus too.

 

I.e. Neanderthals, Denisovans, etc.

 

I theorized that maybe they got cut off from others after moving in to north America. Maybe?

[starchunk]

1 minute ago, norseman said:

 

 

If Sasquatch is a man as well? Thats puts them in the same boat as us.

 

Same common ancestor that lacked teeth and speed and strength that started making sharp objects to level the playing field.

 

Its still a conundrum why two species of the same Homo genus took such drastic differenent trajectories. As well as us, Sasquatch seems at odds with all other extinct species in our genus too.

 

I.e. Neanderthals, Denisovans, etc.

 

I theorized that maybe they got cut off from others after moving in to north America. Maybe?

 

 

Could be, the theory on who discovered America keeps getting "revised", so clearly that tale isn't totally written just yet.

[Catmandoo]

2 hours ago, SWWASAS said:

I just saw an octopus at an aquarium that plays with toys.     It had grabbed and was holding several of them at a time.    It favorite was a plastic tea kettle that the handler used to pour water on it.  She said they are smarter than a house cat. 

 

They can unscrew the lid on a bait jar that is in a crab pot.

I can't remember the location or year, but an aquarium was having fish thefts.  Cameras were installed  and the culprit was an octopus.  It would wait until all the humans were gone and slither out of its tank and hit the 'fish tank buffett'.  Slither back to its tank before the humans returned.

 

2 hours ago, norseman said:

But why would you if your smart enough to build a bow and arrow? Work smarter.... not harder right?

 

Its a conundrum.

 

Puny humans needed weapons to hunt during their carrion eater existence phase. There is a safety factor in putting some distance between puny slow humans and large dangerous animals. Blunt weapons and pointy weapons evolved. With weapon / tool development comes the never ending search for better handles, better points and fabrication methods. Humans started carrying around extra baggage to support their tools. We still carry extra baggage around. 

Sasquatch hunts point blank. Projectile hurling, when used,  is of as found objects. They do not need to carry around extra baggage except for those Texas beasts who carry around the peanut butter jars and lids from BigTex.

[SWWASAS]

8 minutes ago, Catmandoo said:

 

They can unscrew the lid on a bait jar that is in a crab pot.

I can't remember the location or year, but an aquarium was having fish thefts.  Cameras were installed  and the culprit was an octopus.  It would wait until all the humans were gone and slither out of its tank and hit the 'fish tank buffett'.  Slither back to its tank before the humans returned.

 

 

Puny humans needed weapons to hunt during their carrion eater existence phase. There is a safety factor in putting some distance between puny slow humans and large dangerous animals. Blunt weapons and pointy weapons evolved. With weapon / tool development comes the never ending search for better handles, better points and fabrication methods. Humans started carrying around extra baggage to support their tools. We still carry extra baggage around. 

Sasquatch hunts point blank. Projectile hurling, when used,  is of as found objects. They do not need to carry around extra baggage except for those Texas beasts who carry around the peanut butter jars and lids from BigTex.

I asked about the octupus crawling out if its tank and they told the story of the fish stealer.       They can literally crawl through a hole not much larger than their beak.   I mentioned their alien like DNA complexity and a docent said he had further information on that.    He approached me after the presentation and said studies in the last year have shown that they can manipulate their DNA to increase the ability of their young to survive certain conditions.    They also can make themselves pregnant and do not need a mate to reproduce.   They are an incredible creature with no known ancient ancestors.  It is just like they showed up one day.    Kinda like BF.   

Edited October 3, 2019 by SWWASAS

[Catmandoo]

7 minutes ago, SWWASAS said:

 It is just like they showed up one day.

 

Frozen in an icy comet that plummeted into an ocean.

[SWWASAS]

I have wondered if BF lack of hand weapons is also because of the fact that they are quadrupedal a good part of the time.   You cannot be carrying clubs in your hands and use them for locomotion.     Perhaps they went bipedal fairly recently and still favor use of their arms and hands for locomotion in certain conditions or because of going into the trees?    I know the first thing one did when I had my first encounter was go down into a crouch with a thud.   

4 minutes ago, Catmandoo said:

 

Frozen in an icy comet that plummeted into an ocean.

That has even been suggested by scientists.    Their ability to manipulate objects makes them unique in sea creatures.    If any sea creature is capable of complicated constructs it would be them.  

Edited October 3, 2019 by SWWASAS

[gigantor]

On 10/3/2019 at 12:27 PM, SWWASAS said:

This glyph on a stump was constructed for me when I was present.   

 

Are you saying you watched a Bigfoot make that!?

[SWWASAS]

No.    I thought most who have been here a while had heard the circumstances.     I sat down my pack on the stump,  got my compass out to walk a bearing to an interesting stump on the ridge above.   The bearing took me out into a clearcut,   and over a bunch of slash piles.      I lost sight of the stump on the ridge and looked back now and then at a large blow down root ball behind the stump in the picture, trying to hold my bearing.       When the going got too hard and I was worried about breaking a leg scrambling over the slash piles,   I turned around and headed back towards the stump I had put my pack on.    When I returned to that stump, the glyph in the picture had been placed on it.    Basically I was never out of sight of that stump and only had my back turned on it for about a half hour during which time the glyph was placed on the stump.   Had I looked back at the right time, I could have seen the BF that did it.     There were no humans around and if they had been,   they would have no idea I was a BF researcher interested in glyphs.     But the local BF knew me very well by that time having had me pester them for several years by that time.  

Edited October 4, 2019 by SWWASAS

[norseman]

21 hours ago, Catmandoo said:

 

Puny humans needed weapons to hunt during their carrion eater existence phase. There is a safety factor in putting some distance between puny slow humans and large dangerous animals. Blunt weapons and pointy weapons evolved. With weapon / tool development comes the never ending search for better handles, better points and fabrication methods. Humans started carrying around extra baggage to support their tools. We still carry extra baggage around. 

Sasquatch hunts point blank. Projectile hurling, when used,  is of as found objects. They do not need to carry around extra baggage except for those Texas beasts who carry around the peanut butter jars and lids from BigTex.

 

If Sasquatch IS a species residing in the genus Homo? Then the question becomes why is it so much different than every other known species in the genus Homo? 

 

We cannot have our cake and eat it as well.

 

Either it’s a archaic human species that is evolving into something different? Or it never was a human species in the first place. Humans = tools. If Sasquatch has no want or need for tools? That’s a red flag.

 

Maybe Sasquatch uses tools but hides the fact very well? Or maybe it is a descendant of Gigantopethicus, and has never used tools.....

 

 

[SWWASAS]

If I remember his presentations well enough,   I believe Meldrum has said that there may be several human ancestors that are unknown because we have not found them yet.   Perhaps we never will because of the rarity of fossilization.     During much of human history there have been as many as two or three competing bipeds.    Why should today be any different?  

[norseman]

21 hours ago, SWWASAS said:

I asked about the octupus crawling out if its tank and they told the story of the fish stealer.       They can literally crawl through a hole not much larger than their beak.   I mentioned their alien like DNA complexity and a docent said he had further information on that.    He approached me after the presentation and said studies in the last year have shown that they can manipulate their DNA to increase the ability of their young to survive certain conditions.    They also can make themselves pregnant and do not need a mate to reproduce.   They are an incredible creature with no known ancient ancestors.  It is just like they showed up one day.    Kinda like BF.   

 

There are plenty of ancient squids represented in the fossil record. No alien Origin needed. 

 

 

2 minutes ago, SWWASAS said:

If I remember his presentations well enough,   I believe Meldrum has said that there may be several human ancestors that are unknown because we have not found them yet.   Perhaps we never will because of the rarity of fossilization.     During much of human history there have been as many as two or three competing bipeds.    Why should today be any different?  

 

Because one of them possesses nuclear weapons. If anything is left out there it’s hanging on by a shoestring.