The case for Homo Erectus

[Guest Saffasquatch]

On 8/8/2019 at 7:04 PM, Arvedis said:

This fishing expedition reminds me of the flat earth movement. Comes out of nowhere, completely off target, yet people somehow believe it.

 

Why not create a simple checklist of all the behaviors you know about Bigfoot. Now, dig into basic knowledge of what an early modern human might be like and their lifestyle and behaviors. See how the two sides of the page line up. 

 

Imagine you have the attention of a paleontologist doing their best not to laugh at your argument. Science always looks for new findings so there's a chance of this idea having some merit if you can make your case. 

 

What have you got?

 

Who are you replying to? The topic in general? What is your alternate hypothesis? That it's more like a gorilla? Gigantopithecus?

 

To me by far the more likely hypothesis is the one OP stated, that it is a primitive late surviving hominid and that is what Dr. Meldrum thinks too (though he originally believed the gigantopithecus explanation). The only genus of primate that primarily walks upright we know for sure has survived into the modern age is homo. Let me deconstruct your argument. 

 

"Now, dig into basic knowledge of what an early modern human might be like and their lifestyle and behaviors" 

Early modern humans? Modern humans usually refers to Homo sapiens. I assume you mean Erectus, Paranthropus, Heidelbergensis etc. Which are usually referred to as primitive humans. Anything more primitive than Erectus that are usually not called humans or homo. 

 

Lifestyle and behaviours? It is hard to figure out exactly how Erectus lived since you know, they're all dead (or are they?).  We know they lived in groups, used a wide variety of tools. Some populations may have used fires, others may not have. I have seen convincing evidence that bigfoot uses tools, such as the NAWAC (North American Wood Ape Conservancy) which showed pictures of rocks that were used to crush nuts (what they call nut cracking stations). Also teepee like structures which are recorded all across America indicates not only advanced cognitive processes but advanced dexterity. Also wood knocks are thought to come from sticks being hit against trees which would also count as tool use. These are certainly more advanced than other great apes, but not as advanced as later homo that made advanced stone tools and fire. 

So what was your argument here? What behaviours contradict this hypothesis? Yes it's a stretch, but so is anything to do with bigfoot. We are looking for explanations of a creature which is not verified yet and has no concrete fossil evidence, any theory sounds ridiculous to the average paleontologist. 

 

What have you got? 

 

On 8/9/2019 at 8:21 AM, Incorrigible1 said:

Bill Munns long ago mentioned the possibility of something like the De Loy's ape as a possibility for a New World cryptid humanoid. I found that rather interesting.

 

 

 

De Loy's Ape is not convincing at all to me. It looks too much like a Spider monkey, and even if it isn't (which is unlikely) it doesn't have the anatomy of an upright walking ape. Notice it's feet have extended opposable halluces (big toes) which is useful for climbing trees but not for walking. It is not found in any humanoid. In fact part of the definition of the genus homo is that it's upright walking.  

[Incorrigible1]

^^ Umm, "the possibility of something like the De Loy's ape......."

[NCBFr]

On 10/4/2019 at 4:45 PM, 7.62 said:

 

 

This what I would like to see . When you mostly watch any type of video or see a photo you never see the swiftness of the creature . I wish just once someone would capture a video of one running on all fours quickly . 

 

In the Patty film she didn't seem like she even moved on all fours ever. There has to be different types if people see these running this way.

 

Here is a version of a much older video showing a BF running on all fours.  I am sure somebody will post that is a a proven hoax but it sure looks good to me and has been in my top 10 BFs video list for a long time.

https://sasquatchchronicles.com/forums/topic/bigfoot-chasing-on-all-fours-video/

[BlackRockBigfoot]

On 10/4/2019 at 1:42 PM, 7.62 said:

When some of you guys say they hunt and kill deer or elk easily I just don't know how you come to that conclusion unless they hunt bedded deer .

 

Then I can see it . Every film I have watched of them they don't display lighting speed , maybe they are ambush predators jumping out of trees ?

 

I don't know  😎

I mentioned this in another thread recently.  The preternatural speed and agility that is so often discussed in accounts does not seem to be found in video evidence.  The only two videos that I can think of that show anything like that are the baby Bigfoot tree swinging video and one (from Russia I believe) that showed a primate basically smoothly moving through the underbrush at a high rate of speed.

[NCBFr]

My next door neighbor listened to a deer get torn apart in the middle of the night  between our two houses.  He described it as the most horrific thing he has ever listened to .

[Guest Saffasquatch]

2 hours ago, Incorrigible1 said:

^^ Umm, "the possibility of something like the De Loy's ape......."

I don't understand...

[Incorrigible1]

42 minutes ago, Saffasquatch said:

I don't understand...

Perhaps another, completely unknown species, probably primate.

 

New World origination

 

[hiflier]

10 minutes ago, Incorrigible1 said:

New World origination

 

THAT would be a real eye opener.

[Incorrigible1]

55 minutes ago, hiflier said:

 

THAT would be a real eye opener.

Hey, if folks can postulate telepathic, terrain- gliding woods-ninjas, I figure I'm granted a little leeway.

[7.62]

4 hours ago, NCBFr said:

My next door neighbor listened to a deer get torn apart in the middle of the night  between our two houses.  He described it as the most horrific thing he has ever listened to .

What did he find in the morning?

[hiflier]

2 hours ago, Incorrigible1 said:

Hey, if folks can postulate telepathic, terrain- gliding woods-ninjas, I figure I'm granted a little leeway.

 

Or even a LOT  

[MIB]

13 hours ago, Incorrigible1 said:

Perhaps another, completely unknown species, probably primate.

 

New World origination

 

Sure.  There is no greater lack of fossil evidence from the New World than from the Old World.    If we were to postulate new world monkey ancestors, then the apparent tapetum lucidum presence would no longer be out of place.   I do not know if it is right or not but it seems an adequate and elegant solution.    That being the case, it seems a mistake to dismiss it on mere beliefs not backed by evidence which is what has happened so far.

 

MIB

[NCBFr]

11 hours ago, 7.62 said:

What did he find in the morning?

 

He told me about a week after the fact and now that you mention it we never went and looked.  He called it the NJ devil but never could see it bc of the darkness and was too scared to leave his house.

[7.62]

7 minutes ago, NCBFr said:

 

He told me about a week after the fact and now that you mention it we never went and looked.  He called it the NJ devil but never could see it bc of the darkness and was too scared to leave his house.

Bobcats and foxes  make some freaky sounds could it have been this maybe

 

 

[NathanFooter]

On 10/4/2019 at 10:42 AM, 7.62 said:

When some of you guys say they hunt and kill deer or elk easily I just don't know how you come to that conclusion unless they hunt bedded deer .

 

Then I can see it . Every film I have watched of them they don't display lighting speed , maybe they are ambush predators jumping out of trees ?

 

I don't know  😎

 

 

  I would put money that they do both, active chase pursuit as well as opportunistic dispatch of prey.  

 

 

 

 I think your question related to speed noted in reports and not so in videos, I would say that it is already within a filtered context.  The Sasquatches that are most likely to be caught on film would be the ones that chose to respond in a slow and controlled fashion.  I think it is also worth considering that many of these sightings where the animal is observed advancing on prey or navigating terrain at a high rate of speed is more of a planned response by the Sasquatch. If a person walks up on an unaware or distracted Sasquatch we most often see this slow or controlled exit that is almost trying find the path of least or most resistance while tracking the behavior of the human threat.  Many of the reports noting speed also seem to indicate that the creature knew of the humans presence a fair amount of time before the person knew the Sasquatch was there. 

 

 The Georgia dash-camera video is very interesting to me as the subject does appear to clear pavement in about 3 strides at a fairly high rate of speed with very little displayed effort.  

 

In 2009 I witnessed a young male Sasquatch carrying a dead fawn at about 120 feet, after several moments of both of us locking eyes the creature deliberately dropped the fawn and u-turned into the willow brush ripping up and mangling vegetation during his exit, he was putting on a display.  I and my family returned just 30 or so minutes later, we found several tracks, brush damage and examined the remains of fawn.  The skull of the fawn had a single laceration just above the eye sockets ( about an inch behind toward the brain case ), beyond the surface damage to the skin we also noted that the skull actually had been crushed bluntly with some kind of object as the area of impact was now depressed, you could press with your fingers on this area and it was spongy and soft.

 

 Since 2009 I have chased Sasquatch on 2 separate occasions, in 2012 and in 2014 ( I am was pretty fast around this time ) and in both cases the thing was easily 3 times faster than myself.   The encounter in 2014 I managed to run 30 feet over and charge down a 20 foot bank and another 15 feet to the waters edge of the river and in that time the animal had ran out of a cedar patch about 15 yards across and clear a 100 yard section of field to the right on the other side of the river where it stood and began whooping again. The event from 2012 is somewhere here recorded on the forum but in short I heard it " talking " so I charged into the poplar and young oak thicket camera in hand ( it was around 35 yards deep or so ), about 3 seconds after I charged in I could hear it plowing through the thicket away from me, it sounded like a train derailing into the forest.  The thing managed to cross the thicket ( about 100 yards long ) about 90 degrees of my nose to the right, it exited the thicket and hit the swamp flats ( I could hear the water crashing and spraying ) that are about another 30 yards deep before it gives way to large cedars.   I only made it in about 20 yards in before I heard it break water. By the time I got to the waters edge by the swamp the water had settled down, I stood there a few moments listening. After some time I decided to either do a couple hand knocks or a whoop ( foggy on this part ) and in response a huge dead tree came crashing down just into the cedars, I turned back toward the road and thought " Ok idiot, time to leave ".

 

 Reflecting on these incredible experiences, I can't help but laugh when I hear folks suggest that these things are not as powerful or fast as stated in reports, for me there is no question that they are well suited to run down prey.