The case for Homo Erectus

[Incorrigible1]

2 minutes ago, NathanFooter said:

 

  Yeah right, that is clearly a man in a suit.   Case closed.

Neanderthal is man, after all.

[Twist]

Not as gray as I would have expected for a man of his age!

[starchunk]

On 8/10/2019 at 7:15 PM, Willystyle said:

Wow, just met with Jeff Meldrum and Cliff Barackman at a conference in Munising. Really muddied the water for me on what to believe. I’ve always tried to approach this thing from a scientific perspective and what we have evidence of and based on the Lake Chapala brow ridge, evolutionary timelines, the scant dna samples, etc. the most likely explanation for me was always something very similar to us like a Homo erectus. Barackman is absolutely convinced these things are NOT human (neither homo sapien, caveman, nor hybrid) but rather some sort of ape and Meldrum is still really pushing hard for a Gigantopethicus or Paranthropus explanation. He bases his assertion on the mid tarsal break of the foot, limb proportions, shape of the skull, and facial proportions. Neither wanted to talk at all about the DNA being so close to humans but both seemed like highly intelligent people who were each very well versed on the hominid A&P side of the house. I guess the only thing I felt certain of walking out of that conference was that we’re really not going to have any answers one way until a body is recovered and handed directly over to Science. 

 

 

That's exactly why there are no sacred cows in this subject. The mid tarsal thing is disputable, and Giganto is one of the long shots in theory. The chances of a tropical vegetarian making it through Siberia to North America while not freezing, starving or being out competed by or preyed on by creatures better suited to that environment. It's an absurd proposition. 

[Arvedis]

On 8/10/2019 at 5:18 PM, Willystyle said:

No this has changed very little. Both claimed to have rocks thrown at them and Meldrum also talked about his pack being rummaged through on the trip where he set the Skookum cast. I was very impressed with Standings movie but after listening to some of the live sessions he’s done on YouTube I’m convinced that the more the guy talks the more unbelievable his stories become. He becomes even less convincing when you email him one on one with questions 

 

He's a blabbermouth and unstable in a lot of ways, and he seems to find a way to make a living in bigfootery. I mentioned this in another thread and it is sad to say again, Todd is the biggest "influencer" in bigfootery. It's not Meldrum and it's not the reality TV folks. Though, Moneymaker's team has been successful financially and as influencers, they actually have next to nothing to show for their efforts while for whatever reasons, people listen more to Todd more (and Stroud).

 

Though I have to admit, my opinion of moneymaker has changed for the better. I found an obscure clip of him on a podcast where he spilled a lot of beans that make sense

 

On 8/10/2019 at 4:27 PM, hiflier said:

 

I find that odd and almost unacceptable. Especially in light that suspected BF DNA comes back Human.

 

It doesn't surprise me. I don't think they want discovery to happen otherwise they would stop at nothing to make it happen. Sure, that's a purist viewpoint But I weigh a lot of people and things on that viewpoint. Why? Because I think folks are too laid back on the biggest discovery science/zoology will ever have. EVER. So people's and academia's approach and attitude is something I just don't understand.

 

I STILL wouldn't hand it over to Dr. Meldrum. And after what you just summarized? I DEFINITELY wouldn't hand a specimen over to him. What are they even DOING at a conference when time and money is so much is at stake? I don't get that.

 

Meldrum would hem and haw with any proposed evidence since that is what he does best. 

 

22 minutes ago, starchunk said:

That's exactly why there are no sacred cows in this subject. The mid tarsal thing is disputable, and Giganto is one of the long shots in theory. The chances of a tropical vegetarian making it through Siberia to North America while not freezing, starving or being out competed by or preyed on by creatures better suited to that environment. It's an absurd proposition. 

 

Bingo. ✔️

Edited September 9, 2019 by Arvedis

[starchunk]

12 minutes ago, Arvedis said:

 

He's a blabbermouth and unstable in a lot of ways, and he seems to find a way to make a living in bigfootery. I mentioned this in another thread and it is sad to say again, Todd is the biggest "influencer" in bigfootery. It's not Meldrum and it's not the reality TV folks. Though, Moneymaker's team has been successful financially and as influencers, they actually have next to nothing to show for their efforts while for whatever reasons, people listen more to Todd more (and Stroud).

 

Though I have to admit, my opinion of moneymaker has changed for the better. I found an obscure clip of him on a podcast where he spilled a lot of beans that make sense

 

 

Meldrum would hem and haw with any proposed evidence since that is what he does best. 

 

 

Bingo. ✔️

 

Standing is by all evidence a hoaxer through and through, who just happens to be directly involved in a CGI special effects company, that's good enough to him smell funny for me. Stroud is "Survivor Man", a celebrity, no any kind of scientific expert in anything.

Meldrum has in my opinion transformed into more Community celebrity than scientist at this point in the game or at least has become too entrenched in his own opinions to realize how unlikely Giganto is. A relic offshoot of the Human Family Tree is something that needs much more consideration in my opinion.

[Arvedis]

Just now, starchunk said:

 

Standing is by all evidence a hoaxer through and through, who just happens to be directly involved in a CGI special effects company, that's good enough to him smell funny for me. Stroud is "Survivor Man", a celebrity, no any kind of scientific expert in anything.

 

I don't know the numbers but his film on Amazon gives him very broad exposure. He has more films in the pipeline. There are many other Bigfoot documentaries on Amazon and none have achieved the same popularity.

 

I also don't know their social media numbers but both Todd and Stroud are seen as rock stars by a steady stream of newbies and whoever.

 

It's an unusual thing. 

[starchunk]

6 minutes ago, Arvedis said:

 

I don't know the numbers but his film on Amazon gives him very broad exposure. He has more films in the pipeline. There are many other Bigfoot documentaries on Amazon and none have achieved the same popularity.

 

I also don't know their social media numbers but both Todd and Stroud are seen as rock stars by a steady stream of newbies and whoever.

 

It's an unusual thing. 

 

 

Likely because Standing is riding on Meldrum's and Stroud's reputational coattails.

[ShadowBorn]

Stroud had a his chance to see these creatures when they called him to spend the night on that hill. He lost his chance. The fear crept into him and he took off and had enough. I feel like Dr. Meldrum  was some what screwed by Standing by his trickery and that is a sad state of events. I am not sure about Cliff since I have met him and at that time he seemed very open minded on some things about these creatures. Yes, this has turned out as a way to make money and I am not into that. 

 

These creatures are not what we think what apes are. They are truly in the Human gene spectrum and all those contaminated samples that have been thrown out could have been decontaminated. But that's not what they want us to believe. They want this creature to be in the ape family and not a pat of the human family tree. It goes against what they believe. Yet the Native Americans know the truth as calling them a people. They know this and refuse to believe what they say. Science knows how to decontaminate DnA  and if they can take samples of rivers and figure out what creatures drank from that river. Well then they can sure as heck decontaminate DnA and know that those sample were of Humans that are not on the database. The problem is what can they match them with.  These creatures are of ancient ancestry. They can change the way on how we believe about our selves. It is better to keep it hidden from us. We have to push for the truth.

 

These creatures  should not be alive today and should be fossils and stead they are a living walking fossil of ancient ancestry.

[Arvedis]

40 minutes ago, ShadowBorn said:

Stroud had a his chance to see these creatures when they called him to spend the night on that hill. He lost his chance. The fear crept into him and he took off and had enough. I feel like Dr. Meldrum  was some what screwed by Standing by his trickery and that is a sad state of events. I am not sure about Cliff since I have met him and at that time he seemed very open minded on some things about these creatures. Yes, this has turned out as a way to make money and I am not into that. 

 

These creatures are not what we think what apes are. They are truly in the Human gene spectrum and all those contaminated samples that have been thrown out could have been decontaminated. But that's not what they want us to believe. They want this creature to be in the ape family and not a pat of the human family tree. It goes against what they believe. Yet the Native Americans know the truth as calling them a people. They know this and refuse to believe what they say. Science knows how to decontaminate DnA  and if they can take samples of rivers and figure out what creatures drank from that river. Well then they can sure as heck decontaminate DnA and know that those sample were of Humans that are not on the database. The problem is what can they match them with.  These creatures are of ancient ancestry. They can change the way on how we believe about our selves. It is better to keep it hidden from us. We have to push for the truth.

 

These creatures  should not be alive today and should be fossils and stead they are a living walking fossil of ancient ancestry.

An interesting theory with regard to decontaminating samples. I get the impression money was an issue, since that is not a simple thing to do. I also get the impression Disotell is not a skilled scientist and he handled at least some of the samples. 

 

As for a preference for an ape theory, that has been out there for some time but no one has the authority to sway opinion without a good storyline and measure of proof. I don't get the impression anyone has that kind of juice, even the MIBs who lay low until such evidence is on the cusp of revealing itself. Isn't that how things typically go? 🤣

Edited September 9, 2019 by Arvedis

[Willystyle]

1 hour ago, Arvedis said:

Meldrum would hem and haw with any proposed evidence since that is what he does best. 

Correction: Meldrum would hem and haw with any proposed evidence thrown his way if it didn’t prove his giganto/Paranthropus theory. Guarantee if you handed him over so much as one single tooth that looked remotely ape-like he’d run with it. The guy may have literally proven the existence of Sasquatch with the Snelgrove Lake dna sample. Granted it wasn’t enough to map the entire genome off of but it did give us a good idea at what the origins of the species is since it’s only one base pair deviation away from being full homo sapien. He still will barely acknowledge that finding today though. When I emailed standing he told me that dna he had managed to obtain was being analyzed as “full giganto” according to some Chinese lab he supposedly works with. How TF does dna come back as “full giganto” when Science doesn’t have any other gigantopethecus dna to use as a standard of comparison? Which camp do you think he’s trying to wine and dine with bs conclusion like that?? I feel like the only reason we haven’t fully connected the dots between Sasquatch and homo erectus or Sasquatch and the infamous “mystery hominin” dna that keeps turning up is because no ancient Homo erectus dna has been recovered yet to compare to either.

[hiflier]

7 minutes ago, Arvedis said:

An interesting theory with regard to decontaminating samples. I get the impression money was an issue, since that is not a simple thing to do

 

After much deep thought and investigations I've come to what I think for me is an important conclusion: Money has NEVER been the issue. Period. But how to make the most money OFF of it is. Those five samples from the Olympic Peninsula nesting site that languished for a year and a half? Because of measly $5,000? Is one of the biggest jokes played on the community to date. And considering all of the hoaxes that have been perpetrated that's saying a lot. I've said it once and I'll say it again,  something is seriously wrong with that picture. There hasn't been one peep about the nest find OR the e-DNA sequencing from anyone since those two podcasts- Meldrum a year ago this month and Disotell last December. And I don't see ANY high profile people in Bigfootdom seeing what I'm seeing or questioning anything that I have been questioning.

 

What is wrong with these people? I've seen nothing regarding any discussions with wildlife biologists, bear biologists, Department of Natural Resources....NOTHING. Don't tell me I'm the only one on this planet who dislikes how this whole thing has and is being played. There is NO SUMMARY from anyone anywhere about what, or who, made those nests. And even though science says there's no credible evidence for Bigfoot where is science and their scientists on these nests. The structures are real, they are physical evidence, and they are definitely in the high-strangeness category. I'll bet few in science even KNOWS about them. Everyone I've talked to are surprised when I tell them of the find. My own F&W didn't even know about them. What the hell is going on? 

 

 

[ShadowBorn]

16 minutes ago, Arvedis said:

As for a preference for an ape theory, that has been out there for some time but no one has the authority to sway opinion without a good storyline and measure of proof. I don't get the impression anyone has that kind of juice, even the MIBs who lay low until such evidence is on the cusp of revealing itself. Isn't that how things typically go?

They have been pushing that for a long time now and yet there is no proof of that either.  But no one has the cojones to start researching the human theory. This is what should be started with these samples that they are contaminated. If there is a case for Homo Erectus well then it should be started with these samples that they keep on throwing out unless there is a protocol in place to do so. If so then this protocol should be broken and break throughs should be made in the name of science.

As far as proof goes we should be looking for bones or a body. Shooting is a bit on the dangerous side since they do not travel alone .

[Arvedis]

28 minutes ago, hiflier said:

 

After much deep thought and investigations I've come to what I think for me is an important conclusion: Money has NEVER been the issue. Period. But how to make the most money OFF of it is. Those five samples from the Olympic Peninsula nesting site that languished for a year and a half? Because of measly $5,000? Is one of the biggest jokes played on the community to date. And considering all of the hoaxes that have been perpetrated that's saying a lot. I've said it once and I'll say it again,  something is seriously wrong with that picture. There hasn't been one peep about the nest find OR the e-DNA sequencing from anyone since those two podcasts- Meldrum a year ago this month and Disotell last December. And I don't see ANY high profile people in Bigfootdom seeing what I'm seeing or questioning anything that I have been questioning.

 

What is wrong with these people? I've seen nothing regarding any discussions with wildlife biologists, bear biologists, Department of Natural Resources....NOTHING. Don't tell me I'm the only one on this planet who dislikes how this whole thing has and is being played. There is NO SUMMARY from anyone anywhere about what, or who, made those nests. And even though science says there's no credible evidence for Bigfoot where is science and their scientists on these nests. The structures are real, they are physical evidence, and they are definitely in the high-strangeness category. I'll bet few in science even KNOWS about them. Everyone I've talked to are surprised when I tell them of the find. My own F&W didn't even know about them. What the hell is going on? 

 

Just did a quick search and see that there was DNA testing with the nests. Meldrum raised 5 grand through indiegogo. But the scientist was Disotell. I think that is a point of failure since he is the one that keeps coming back with the human contamination excuse. I think he's a hack. But I don't think Meldrum realizes that or he wouldn't have gone through the trouble of raising funds.

 

 

[ShadowBorn]

30 minutes ago, Willystyle said:

Correction: Meldrum would hem and haw with any proposed evidence thrown his way if it didn’t prove his giganto/Paranthropus theory. Guarantee if you handed him over so much as one single tooth that looked remotely ape-like he’d run with it. The guy may have literally proven the existence of Sasquatch with the Snelgrove Lake dna sample. Granted it wasn’t enough to map the entire genome off of but it did give us a good idea at what the origins of the species is since it’s only one base pair deviation away from being full homo sapien. He still will barely acknowledge that finding today though. When I emailed standing he told me that dna he had managed to obtain was being analyzed as “full giganto” according to some Chinese lab he supposedly works with. How TF does dna come back as “full giganto” when Science doesn’t have any other gigantopethecus dna to use as a standard of comparison? Which camp do you think he’s trying to wine and dine with bs conclusion like that?? I feel like the only reason we haven’t fully connected the dots between Sasquatch and homo erectus or Sasquatch and the infamous “mystery hominin” dna that keeps turning up is because no ancient Homo erectus dna has been recovered yet to compare to either.

It's like this , when your mind is made up that these creatures should be  giganto/Paranthropus it is hard to change  away from that theory. But when science keeps leading down that same path and does not sway away. Well then it is time to start chasing the rabbit that is leading you away from the real path. That rabbit is just going to get you lost in the woods.

 

Now I remember that sample  that they got up in Canada .  I cannot talk bad about Dr.disotell since he is a Dr. in his field. Dr. Nelson should have removed himself from the testing since he was a part of the research team. But in a way it worked in the favor of the creature. Again the sample came out to be some what Human and no matter how hard he tried to make the sample to come in favor of Dr. Meldrum he could not do it. It was even proven by Wayne state Unirversity. ( http://alamas.ru/eng/publicat/DNA_of_Bigfoot_e.htm ).   They do not want part that these creatures be of Human origin. May it be against what they believe spiritually or may it be heresy. After all we are talking about a creature that does not fit what we have been told to believe.  These things do make people un comfortable including myself. 

[Willystyle]

14 minutes ago, hiflier said:

I've said it once and I'll say it again,  something is seriously wrong with that picture. There hasn't been one peep about the nest find OR the e-DNA sequencing from anyone

It’s very simple, all the preliminary results came back as being very close to Homo sapien. Meldrum has staked the last 25 years of his career on it being a gigantopithecus though. He’s only just started taking about Paranthropus being a possible explanation the last few years because he’s not finding any evidence to bridge the connection to gigantopithecus. Barackman and Stroud and all these guys aren’t going to name a more likely explanation because Meldrum is essentially the only person with a PhD behind his name who takes any of this stuff seriously. Without him and his credentials the entire Sasquatch movement essentially just falls back into being another chapter in cryptozoology.I do agree that Barackman does seem to be at least be open to a more likely explanation though as his very words to me were only that “it’s not human” which leaves a lot of wiggle room for interpretation.