Do you have clear photos or video of a Bigfoot ?

[7.62]

5 hours ago, ShadowBorn said:

That's just it Sas what you said  "Human like being" We have no idea what it really is and DNA is not giving up it's secrets. What I saw did not look human and looked like an animal except that it had those human features that I think makes us believe that they are human.

 

As far as graves goes we are not going to dig up the folks that we know who have died to collect their bones. Well I feel the same way with them and believe me I have found these mounds that might be graves of them but I do not want to disturb them.  I have come to my own conclusion that these creatures are wild just like any other animal in the forest. If they are so human then where are the fire pits to stay warm. Their hair is not the same as ours  which does not make them Human. We have to face what might happen in our future . Some States are on board with the protection of this species.  Other states just plain ol deny it's existance.  Pictures and video or DNA will never be enough to prove they exist . So we have to face the reality that one must be dispatched. Protection comes after the fact it has been studied just like the Ape/Gorillas. 

I don't know ShadowBorn..

if they bury their dead I think it shows they are closer to humans than a wild animal.

[norseman]

6 minutes ago, hiflier said:

 

 

Why do you think I've been emailing!?!? Why does anyone? Because I truly think Sasquatch is worth standing up and fighting for. I have been raising my hand and my head to agencies just for that purpose. With all due respect to you, Norseman and everyone else, I don't believe in "maybe something will go our way." I've been trying to seriously force the issue into the open since January. This is from one of my own state regional biologists "We are not sure they don't exist." A true statement that I received live over the phone! The person actually called ME, not the other way round. Isn't that enough to motivate someone, anyone, to begin their own program of emailing and talking to their respective state F&W??

 

Now someone can poo-poo that response but I don't and won't and you know why? Because I opened the door to future dialogue. People here said it would never happen and they were WRONG. It took time and persistence but I at least got the ball rolling. It can work because it did work. Was the answer definitive, Nope. But I am hopeful that a definitive answer will eventually come. Because that phone call isn't the end of the road by any means. But it was an important step. It took about three and a half months of patience to get that phone call. But it's a dang sight better than 51 years in my book.

 

Now I know what people are going to say, "way to go, hiflier, good for you" but they probably still won't lift a finger to a keyboard or a phone for themselves even after knowing now that it can work. They'll still blame me for being a bully as an excuse for whatever it is that they won't do and make it all about me. All I can say is grow a pair. Because this isn't about me and never was- it's about Sasquatch and always has been.  You want to save these magnificent creatures? Then do what ever it takes to save them and that includes contacting officials.

 

With all due respect Hiflier? Drop the keyboard and pick up the rifle. If you have not heard anything by now, and your not the first?

 

Your not going to hear anything back. Plausible deniability. Too much at stake for them to acknowledge it now.

 

Its up to us!

 

 

1 hour ago, Catmandoo said:

 

You can't be serious. Humans live in 'man reservations' and they are in bad shape.  Sasquatch could never live in captivity.

 

What do you call Yellowstone National Park?

55 minutes ago, NatFoot said:

 

I read that and felt the same way.

 

If SB thinks he/she knows where BF are buried, they can't be serious on discovery. A full skeleton would do it.

 

Absolutely. I support this fully. Much better to find a skeleton than to be forced to kill one.

[hiflier]

58 minutes ago, norseman said:

With all due respect Hiflier? Drop the keyboard and pick up the rifle. If you have not heard anything by now, and your not the first?

 

Your not going to hear anything back. Plausible deniability. Too much at stake for them to acknowledge it now.

 

Its up to us!

 

Why am I not surprised at this response. So. You don't want me to continue? Before you supported my efforts, now you, saying it's useless? You can't have it both ways. Tell you what, you pry open the truth your way. I've watched you do that for the nearly 6 years that I've been here along with everyone else who's in the field. What you all have taught me is the futility of chasing Bigfoot shadows in the woods. Heck, over 51 years of history with millions and millions of dollars down the drain has shown me that, All of the DNA testing has shown me that. All of the conferences have shown me that and all of the thousands of different Sasquatch books have shown me that.

 

The ONLY thing that hasn't shown me futility is the effort to seriously pursue dialogue with the officials themselves who should know the answer. It's all I have left. "Your not going to hear anything back" is what you said. It's what everyone says. Well for the first time since I've been here I will return the favor. As far as the field goes. I will say what I think is the obvious "You're not going to get anything back." If 51 years of history hasn't taught you or anyone else that then I don't know what to say because it certainly has taught me. I opened up a door to my F&W. Something that nearly everyone here said would never happen. Well it did happen and I intend to step through it.

 

Does it take guts? I don't know, does it? If there are people here who say they will risk jail am I facing the same risk? Which is worse? Facing jail for knocking on F&W's door? Or facing jail for grassing a rare species? Incarceration is incarceration. The thing with the route I'm taking is I can do it without breaking any laws or gunning down something that may already have a population to low for sustainability. Given the choice- which I fully have- I will take my chances with F&W thank you very much. In reality I have two choices beyond finding a dead one: Kill one myself, or knock on someone's door until I get an answer. For me it's a no-brainer. Granted talking to an official isn't as exciting as watching the big guy come crashing down onto his face with a bullet in his head, but it will just have to do for now. All I know is it hasn't take me 51 years and millions of dollars to get a phone call. Half a dozen emails is all it took- no big deal. Hope no one is shocked by that.

Edited May 1, 2019 by hiflier

[Catmandoo]

2 hours ago, NatFoot said:

he/she knows where BF are buried, they can't be serious on discovery. A full skeleton would do it.

 

Perhaps BFF members have forgotten the adventures of "Bugs" on Coast to Coast. I think the players name was Bugs. Buried bones type of hoax. Learned about the hoax here. I have not listened to Coast to Coast. Haven't missed a thing on that disinformation site.

Use caution with the 'buried bones' scenario.

Edited May 1, 2019 by Catmandoo
more text

[norseman]

1 hour ago, hiflier said:

 

Why am I not surprised at this response. So. You don't want me to continue? Before you supported my efforts, now you, saying it's useless? You can't have it both ways. Tell you what, you pry open the truth your way. I've watched you do that for the nearly 6 years that I've been here along with everyone else who's in the field. What you all have taught me is the futility of chasing Bigfoot shadows in the woods. Heck, over 51 years of history with millions and millions of dollars down the drain has shown me that, All of the DNA testing has shown me that. All of the conferences have shown me that and all of the thousands of different Sasquatch books have shown me that.

 

The ONLY thing that hasn't shown me futility is the effort to seriously pursue dialogue with the officials themselves who should know the answer. It's all I have left. "Your not going to hear anything back" is what you said. It's what everyone says. Well for the first time since I've been here I will return the favor. As far as the field goes. I will say what I think is the obvious "You're not going to get anything back." If 51 years of history hasn't taught you or anyone else that then I don't know what to say because it certainly has taught me. I opened up a door to my F&W. Something that nearly everyone here said would never happen. Well it did happen and I intend to step through it.

 

Does it take guts? I don't know, does it? If there are people here who say they will risk jail am I facing the same risk? Which is worse? Facing jail for knocking on F&W's door? Or facing jail for grassing a rare species? Incarceration is incarceration. The thing with the route I'm taking is I can do it without breaking any laws or gunning down something that may already have a population to low for sustainability. Given the choice- which I fully have- I will take my chances with F&W thank you very much. In reality I have two choices beyond finding a dead one: Kill one myself, or knock on someone's door until I get an answer. For me it's a no-brainer. Granted talking to an official isn't as exciting as watching the big guy come crashing down onto his face with a bullet in his head, but it will just have to do for now. All I know is it hasn't take me 51 years and millions of dollars to get a phone call. Half a dozen emails is all it took- no big deal. Hope no one is shocked by that.

 

I think it’s fruitless. Yes. But I support your desire to try. They are ultimately responsible for what goes on out there. Look at the stone walling against Paulides! I’m not trying to belittle you. But you keep attacking me and I will respond in spades. The government is never going to voluntarily take responsibility of not telling the public that giant ape men inhabit our forests. They do not take responsibility for transplanting trouble Grizzly bears in my forest. They do not take responsibility for wolf predation against livestock...... your kidding right? Your plan may seem logical on the east coast but it looks problematic from my end. But again..... a man outta do what he thinks is right.

 

And keep in mind? I’ve was in the oilfield for 7 years and had vertigo and recently a hole in my neck for a year. I got out there when I could between family time and 100 hour work weeks. Plus ranch chores. And I am just one guy.

 

The theory is sound. Each sighting is a missed opportunity! How many are reported each year? How many go unreported? I bet a lot more than the emails you have in your inbox from government agencies talking about Bigfoot.

 

I wish you well. I hope Iam wrong. Fingers crossed for that proclamation email!

 

 

Edited May 1, 2019 by norseman

[Huntster]

11 hours ago, NatFoot said:

.........A full skeleton would do it.

 

I don't believe that.

 

https://www.gaia.com/article/giant-skeletons-have-been-found-buried-in-mounds-across-america

 

https://www.gaia.com/article/this-conspiracy-claims-the-smithsonian-destroys-giant-skeletons

 

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/graveyard-giants-found-china-180963976/

 

https://www.nytimes.com/1902/02/11/archives/giant-skeletons-found-archaeologists-to-send-expedition-to-explore.html

 

Just like the homo floresiensis find was simply ignored as examples of microcephaly, and later "island dwarfing", giant skeletons are simply dismissed as giantism.

 

Another example would be that of the discovery of the gorilla. Thomas Savage provided a skull to the Royal Geographic Society in 1847. In 1856, Paul du Chaillu emerged from the African interior with dead carcasses (not to mention claims of pygmies and ither sights that the press had a field day with). Yet American scientists and media denied it for years afterwards (consider the fact that Darwin published "On the Origin of Species" in 1859, so this was the era of huge ideological revolution).

 

Today is no different. Mankind hasn't changed a whit. It has to be a fresh carcass, it has to be delivered, it has to be provided for free, and the source has to be willing to endure criminal prosecution for the outrageous insistence of challenging the current gods of science with proof that they have been both wrong and grossly negligent for the past century in looking into this phenomenon.

 

 

Edited May 1, 2019 by Huntster

[Huntster]

11 hours ago, norseman said:

.........What do you call Yellowstone National Park?"...........

 

By far the largest and most poorly managed tourist trap in North America.........

[hiflier]

12 hours ago, norseman said:

 

I think it’s fruitless. Yes. But I support your desire to try. They are ultimately responsible for what goes on out there. Look at the stone walling against Paulides! I’m not trying to belittle you. But you keep attacking me and I will respond in spades. The government is never going to voluntarily take responsibility of not telling the public that giant ape men inhabit our forests. They do not take responsibility for transplanting trouble Grizzly bears in my forest. They do not take responsibility for wolf predation against livestock...... your kidding right? Your plan may seem logical on the east coast but it looks problematic from my end. But again..... a man outta do what he thinks is right.

 

And keep in mind? I’ve was in the oilfield for 7 years and had vertigo and recently a hole in my neck for a year. I got out there when I could between family time and 100 hour work weeks. Plus ranch chores. And I am just one guy.

 

The theory is sound. Each sighting is a missed opportunity! How many are reported each year? How many go unreported? I bet a lot more than the emails you have in your inbox from government agencies talking about Bigfoot.

 

I wish you well. I hope Iam wrong. Fingers crossed for that proclamation email!

 

 

 

^^Wish I could plus ten times over for that one, Norseman. Good man, good post. I think we all are keenly aware how much is riding on this. I feel I have little choice but to continue forward. I have to say support is a good feeling and I thank you and others for it.

[MIB]

13 hours ago, norseman said:

I think it’s fruitless.

 

I think it is, too.   I haven't "bothered with" email, instead I walked into the F&W district office and talked to a couple biologists.   For all practical purposes I was laughed out of the building.  (Might have been interesting to hear their conversation after I left, huh?)  I'm not "done".   My next attempt will be to catch them one-on-one in the field where peer pressure won't be a potential issue and they might be more likely to be more open with personal experience rather than regurgitating department party line.  Same plan goes for the game cops .. those are a special detail within our state police in my state, not part of the F&W service.

 

IMHO if there is a conspiracy to cover up bigfoot, going through official channels is not going to uncover it, they've already got that covered.   We have to go end-around, find people one-on-one, and do it in ways they're not on record disputing their department's unofficial official policies.    Trying to get them on record contradicting policy is akin to asking them to commit professional suicide.   We can either get the answer we want, or we can get an answer how we want it, but we're not going to accomplish both at once ... the "deck" is already stacked against us in that regard.

 

MIB

Edited May 1, 2019 by MIB

[norseman]

This picture says it all. It’s about public notice, safety and liability.

 

And I think this case says it all.

 

 

[ShadowBorn]

16 hours ago, 7.62 said:

if they bury their dead I think it shows they are closer to humans than a wild animal.

7.62

I am not saying that these creatures bury their dead. I am saying that the Native Americans have buried them and am sure that they would not like us to un-bury them just to prove that they are real. Like I have said I have found these rock mounds but have gone with not un-pile those rocks. My hope would be to shoot a rogue or one driven away from its own kind since they felt that it was not fit for there tribe. A loner would be a key to success and this would be what I would be hoping for. I understand the concerns that people have of killing one of these creatures. But what are the chances of really getting a shot at one when we cannot even get a clear picture of one.

 

MIB

I also was laughed at when I asked about these creatures to the DNR here in the state of Michigan. Crap the DNR still cannot admit that we have cougars roaming our forest and there are pictures of them. What I can say is this that every time I mention about killing one of these creatures on the internet. I have helo's circling around my home and it does not mater if the weather is bad. I tried to get a photo of the helicopter this morning but I was to slow with my camera. My best guess is that they (Gov) already have there body  and already have it in the lab. Again just my opinion. 

[Huntster]

5 hours ago, Huntster said:

.......Another example would be that of the discovery of the gorilla. Thomas Savage provided a skull to the Royal Geographic Society in 1847. In 1856, Paul du Chaillu emerged from the African interior with dead carcasses (not to mention claims of pygmies and ither sights that the press had a field day with). Yet American scientists and media denied it for years afterwards (consider the fact that Darwin published "On the Origin of Species" in 1859, so this was the era of huge ideological revolution).

 

Today is no different. Mankind hasn't changed a whit. It has to be a fresh carcass, it has to be delivered, it has to be provided for free, and the source has to be willing to endure criminal prosecution for the outrageous insistence of challenging the current gods of science with proof that they have been both wrong and grossly negligent for the past century in looking into this phenomenon.

 

http://www.erbzine.com/mag29/2988.html

 

.........Paul Du Chaillu (1835-1903),

is best-known as an African explorer and famous for his confirmation of the existence of the "Monstrous and ferocious ape, the gorilla" on the expedition he writes of here. He spent his early years on the West Coast of Africa, where his father worked. He was intrigued by natural history and showed an aptitude for the native languages and customs. 

His first expedition into Central Africa was supported by the Philadelphia Academy of Natural Sciences. The trip commenced in 1856 and lasted close to four years and covered 8,000 miles (DAB). He amassed an amazing collection of rare birds and animals, and made several important discoveries about the rivers of the region. His Explorations and Adventures in Equatorial Africa (1861) described his travels. 

After initial ridicule, his discoveries were confirmed and he was established as an expert on the region. After another expedition in 1863, he settled in America to lecture and write about Africa. All of his books are very readable and contain interesting, lively descriptions which indicate a keen sense of observation on the part of the author.........

 

Note the use of the word "confirmation" of the existence of the gorilla? Not "discovered"?

 

That's because the gorilla had been "discovered" many years before. But "science" resisted. Fiercely.

 

Things haven't changed at all. Consider:

 

https://cryptomundo.com/bigfoot-report/gorilla-timeline/

 

..........Following is an article that was published in New Scientist magazine in the October 2005 issue that details Thomas Savage’s discovery of the Western Lowland Gorilla.

 

Histories: Gorillas, I presume
New Scientist Magazine
01 October 2005
Paul Collins

 

Before 1847, the gorilla was unnamed and only known by rumour. The Reverend Thomas Savage described it to an incredulous scientific world

 

THE trip was not going well. In April 1847 the Reverend Thomas Savage had been travelling from his missionary posting in present-day Liberia in West Africa when illness forced him to stop off in what is now Gabon. He convalesced at the house of the Reverend J. L. Wilson, the senior American missionary official in West Africa.

"Soon after my arrival," Savage wrote later that year in the Boston Journal of Natural History, "Mr Wilson showed me a skull, represented by the natives to be that of a monkey-like animal, remarkable for its size, ferocity, and habits." An incredulous Savage immediately saw that the skull did not correspond to any known ape. It must belong to a whole new primate species, one larger and more powerful than humans.

The mysterious skull could not have found a man better prepared to appreciate it in all of Africa. After graduating from Yale Medical School in 1833, Savage decided his vocation was to be a missionary and asked to be sent to Cape Palmas in West Africa, where a settlement of freed North American slaves was being established, and where Savage’s medical skills would come in handy. It was as an amateur naturalist in Africa, though, that Savage gained fame. He was an inveterate collector, and by 1834 had already written a paper on chimpanzees with Jeffries Wyman, a rising young star at Harvard Medical School.

Savage immediately sent word of his latest find to Wyman, as well as to England, to Samuel Stutchbery of the Bristol Philosophical Society and to Richard Owen at the Royal College of Surgeons in London. Savage and his host Wilson then collected accounts from the local Mpongwe people of the shy yet fearsome creature they called the Enge-ena. A fuller picture soon emerged: it lived in hilly inland countryside, slept in trees and was rarely seen. The skull had been procured by a slave, a great hunter captured from another tribe. His feat "was considered almost superhuman" – so remarkable, in fact, that the Mpongwe had immediately granted the man his freedom. The Enge-ena he killed was said to possess "an indescribably ferocious aspect", Savage noted. "The killing of an Enge-ena is considered an act of great skill and courage, and brings to the victor signal honor."

But Savage wanted more. Above all, he wanted both male and female skulls, so that he and Wyman could write a paper describing this new species. He quickly ran into a problem, however: Stutchbery. The impatient naturalist had decided he couldn’t wait for Savage to finish his research. Instead he hired a certain Captain Wagstaff to go to Gabon and seek out gorilla skulls, plunging the captain and the reverend into a bidding war for gorilla bones. This, Savage wrote wearily to Wyman, "occasioned me great trouble in procuring the specimen". Thanks in part to his friendship with the Mpongwe chieftain, and probably in larger part to the hefty £25 bounty he offered, Savage came away with the prize: two male and two female skulls, and a male and female pelvis, and assorted ribs, vertebrae and limbs.

Examining the bones back in Boston, Savage’s partner Wyman also had an advantage over his British rivals: he had a chimpanzee skull from his previous collaboration with Savage. Owen at the Royal College of Surgeons – inheritors of the vast collection of specimens built up by the great 18th-century surgeon John Hunter – had just about everything else, but no chimp. Wyman’s material advantage made it easy to establish that the gorilla was something more than an overgrown chimp.

Wyman and Savage’s paper, published in the Boston Journal of Natural History in December 1847, was the first full description of the creature that Wyman, mindful of Hanno’s account, named Troglodytes gorilla. Savage provided anecdotes about the gorilla’s behaviour and habitat, while Wyman wrote sections that carefully demonstrated the substantial differences between the gorilla and other great apes. But it was a close-run thing. The American pair narrowly squeaked into print two months before Stutchbery and Owen, who had named the new species Troglodytes savagei. When Owen heard that the Americans had beaten him to it, he conceded defeat. And so Wyman’s name stuck until a later taxonomic reclassification of the Western Lowland Gorilla resulted in the wonderfully emphatic Gorilla gorilla gorilla.

Wyman went on to achieve some measure of fame for his careful work as a naturalist and as a teacher to US philosopher William James. Reverend Savage lived rather more quietly, working for most of the rest of his life as a rector in Mississippi. At first, the impact of their discovery was largely limited to the scientific world, and it was another decade before whole gorilla specimens began appearing in any numbers in Europe. Shot by such adventurers as the French-American writer Paul Du Chaillu, they were preserved for the long sea-voyage with whatever happened to be on hand at African seaports, typically by sealing them into a cask of spirits. After a long sea journey, the pickled apes gave off an unbelievable stench, but they were such rare finds that nobody much cared.

Displays of stuffed gorillas and gorilla skeletons became the hot tickets of the day, with newspapers reporting that fashionable young women were suddenly befriending stuffy museum trustees in the hope of seeing "those dear, dear gorillas". A "gorilla ballet" took to London stages – though without any actual gorillas. Cartoons in Punch proclaimed the ape "The Lion of the Season" and the Gorilla Quadrille For Piano flew off the shelves of sheet-music stores.

So what about bringing a live gorilla back from Africa? After Charles Darwin published On the Origin of Species in 1859, the public clamoured to see these mysterious primates. But gorillas proved fragile in human hands, and appeared particularly vulnerable to pulmonary ailments. The few that reached Europe almost invariably died shortly after their arrival. America, with its even longer sea voyage, failed to get hold of a live gorilla until 1897, and that one died four days after landfall. The misery of captured gorillas was so apparent, and their mortality rate so appalling, that in 1908 the London Zoo finally refused to buy them; a decision that would stand until 1932.

Victorian showmen had fewer scruples. They knew that a gorilla meant money, whether it was genuine or not, and so they happily showed off any ape they could get their hands on as a "gorilla". But in one of the great odd twists of ape history, it seems one live gorilla had already toured England without anyone realising it.

In 1855, a strange sort of chimpanzee was kept by George W. Wombwell’s famous travelling menagerie. "Jenny" survived a few months before dying of pneumonia in Scarborough in March 1856. The dead creature was promptly sold to Charles Waterton, an eccentric naturalist-cum-taxidermist. Waterton was fond of creating fanciful "nondescripts" from assemblages of animal parts, and so Jenny’s skin was altered and stuffed to form a hideous horned simian sculpture titled – for Waterton was an ardent Catholic – Martin Luther After His Fall.

But what the menagerie had been touring with was not a chimpanzee at all. Later examination revealed that Jenny was a juvenile gorilla. The remains of the first gorilla to live outside Africa now survive only as a bizarre taxidermic joke in the Waterton Collection at the Wakefield Museum in Yorkshire. It would be decades before any other gorilla survived in Britain for as long as Jenny had. And so it was that squalling babies, runny-nosed urchins and exasperated mothers unwittingly witnessed the world’s rarest captive animal, and for a few pence on English village greens were granted a sight denied to the most respected men of science........

 

Some of these know-it-all Bozos teaching paleoanthropology have 800 lb hominins roaming around the woods within a short crows flight from their homes and ivy covered walls. Nothing can be more delicious.

[hiflier]

2 hours ago, MIB said:

 

I think it is, too.   I haven't "bothered with" email, instead I walked into the F&W district office and talked to a couple biologists.   For all practical purposes I was laughed out of the building.  (Might have been interesting to hear their conversation after I left, huh?)  I'm not "done".   My next attempt will be to catch them one-on-one in the field where peer pressure won't be a potential issue and they might be more likely to be more open with personal experience rather than regurgitating department party line.  Same plan goes for the game cops .. those are a special detail within our state police in my state, not part of the F&W service.

 

IMHO if there is a conspiracy to cover up bigfoot, going through official channels is not going to uncover it, they've already got that covered.   We have to go end-around, find people one-on-one, and do it in ways they're not on record disputing their department's unofficial official policies.    Trying to get them on record contradicting policy is akin to asking them to commit professional suicide.   We can either get the answer we want, or we can get an answer how we want it, but we're not going to accomplish both at once ... the "deck" is already stacked against us in that regard.

 

MIB

 

A hundred plusses for you, my man. You probably hands down have the best approach. It's a post I would have welcomed months ago and could have saved of myself, you, and everyone else an awful lot bandwidth. But, hey, that was yesterday, right? Thank you for this. It does seem that the idea has been around and some of you folks are on top of it. Would have been good to know that but even still, it is quite encouraging. I will be doing a follow up to my phone call at some point in the near future. I see no reason to not bring any results here. What I do see though are individual experiences? Wonder what would happen if I could find four other people in my area to go with me. For no other reason than to show that there is real time support for the follow-up inquiry. Have to say this isn't exactly the least nerve wracking thing that I've ever done. But there is a truth out there so......... 

[Incorrigible1]

It appears the answer to the opening question is "no."

 

A pity, that.

[norseman]

27 minutes ago, Incorrigible1 said:

It appears the answer to the opening question is "no."

 

A pity, that.

 

There are very clear images and video. The question then becomes is it a hoax?

 

Take Standing for an example. He has everything from muppet heads to very believable footage. Can a hoaxer take a image of a real Bigfoot? Patterson owned a suit as well. Does that make the PGF a fake?

 

The whole business is convoluted. And that’s because there is no way to verify anything.