The Ketchum Report

[Guest CT Seeker]

I did a poll here on the old BFF, and the number of respondents on this site, who had experienced some form of hallucination was above 30%.

Here's where the discussion might get off-target though--I recall at least one hallucination when I was young due to a high fever I would get from ear-infections. My hallucination involved aliens sort of turning my mattress over and carrying me out the window (first time I have ever typed that in my 46 years on the planet) but it makes perfect sense that the hallucination was due to a very high fever--the fever documented by my mom.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that naturally occuring hallucinations happening for no reason at all to otherwise healthy people is close to zero %. As the skeptics will agree--there needs to be a cause and effect. A REASON. Otherwise "hallucinations!" becomes the catch-all for seeing something unique in our lives.

Edited March 15, 2012 by CT Seeker

[Guest]

So Saskeptic, . . . who in decades has never once hallucinated anything,

Why would you assume that?

. . . would in fact experience his first one right at the moment of truth, when what you've been debating every day . . .

If you follow the link I provided, you'll see that one of the most common forms of hallucination - again, among people who are not suffering from ANY mental illness - involves encounters with familiar subjects, e.g., deceased loved ones. Given my near lifelong interest in bigfoot and the fact that I spend a lot of time in settings that would seem to be ideal "bigfoot habitat", some might consider me a prime candidate to have a bigfoot-related hallucination.

Would you seriously pull the hallucination card on yourself ahead of trusting all of your senses that you were in fact face to face with a Sasquatch? Wouldn't you collect yourself, get on your iPhone, and change your name to Sascertain?

WWSD - "what would Spock do?"

By definition, a hallucination is an experience so vivid and powerful than the subject cannot discern it from reality. So unless I had some way to prove that my experience was not a hallucination (e.g., I got a photo of it), then the "hallucination card" would have to remain among the viable list of alternative explanations. To subjectively rule out hallucination would be illogical, Captain.

And Saskeptic, do you really have over 4000 posts?

I respond to many direct questions here on the BFF (I'd find it rude to ignore them) and that drives my post count up quite a bit.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that naturally occuring hallucinations happening for no reason at all to otherwise healthy people is close to zero %.

That's fine, but that limb can get mighty thin unless one takes the time first to review the psychological literature on hallucinations. That's why I posted the Wiki link.

[Drew]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that naturally occuring hallucinations happening for no reason at all to otherwise healthy people is close to zero %. As the skeptics will agree--there needs to be a cause and effect. A REASON. Otherwise "hallucinations!" becomes the catch-all for seeing something unique in our lives.

I suppose it depends on what you call 'healthy'

A school teacher driving to work, no meds, just up early before dawn, ends up in a ditch, Says she swerved to avoid a truck tire in the middle of the road. Was she mistaken? The cops searched for the tire, never found it. She was ticketed for failure to control vehicle. She was falling asleep and hallucinated the tire.

Someone who is depressed after losing a loved one is put on a mild anti-depressant, sees clowns climbing in her bedroom window, and her deceased husband standing outside the window smoking a cigarrette.

A truck driver trying to make it home by 2AM after a three state round trip, sees a car coming head on at him on a divided highway, jerks and swerves to avoid it, even hears the air horn as it passes by. Suddenly he is wide awake and can not see the truck in his mirrors.

I have said for a long time that - sleep deprivation, fevers, prescription meds, changes in dosage can cause hallucinations. You don't have to be 'mentally ill' to suffer from them.

[Guest CT Seeker]

Yes, I mentioned fever as the reason for my own hallucination and I thought I was clear when referring to an otherwise normal setting/conditions (no sleep deprivation, no mourning a loss/anti-depressant usage) just walking around in the woods and looking for something and finally seeing it...I'm going to go ahead and trust my senses if my self-check/analysis comes up negative for anything out of the ordinary. But anyway, I'm not going to try to talk someone into trusting themselves if they don't. But I would suggest stop trying to look for something you aren't even going to believe you see when you see it!

But this hallucination reasoning is mightily convenient in order to simply write off people observing an (presumably) elusive, intelligent animal who is much more comfortable in its habitat than we are in theirs.

[Guest Transformer]

Halucinations would not be high on my list but I think if you combine them with mistaken sightings due to tricks of light, shadow, pre-bias, optical illusions, and misremembered or altered memories (which could be totally unintentional due to the power of suggestion) you could see a pretty high number of sightings being struck off the list. That does not mean I think all sighting have to be false or mistakes or hoaxes because there are obviously sightings that a person cannot just write off as an error so that is what keeps me interested.

[Drew]

But this hallucination reasoning is mightily convenient in order to simply write off people observing an (presumably) elusive, intelligent animal who is much more comfortable in its habitat than we are in theirs.

Turn that around.

This Bigfoot reasoning might be a convenient way to simply write off someone having a hallucination.

We have evidence of people hallucinating, and we have no physical evidence of an elusive, intelligent animal living in the PNW, and rural driveways of North America. I predict this paper will do nothing to contradict that statement.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Drew

[Guest slimwitless]

How about tickets to her new movie coming out March 23rd, "The Hunger Games"? Of course you have to wait until April 5th to see it if I lose.

As much as I'd like to see the movie for free on March 23rd, that Koala has sentimental value. Change the stakes and I may consider.

How did you know the photo was staged? Was it the missing arms?

[Guest Transformer]

... My hallucination involved aliens sort of turning my mattress over and carrying me out the window (first time I have ever typed that in my 46 years on the planet) ...

How many times did you type it on your first planet that the aliens stole you from?

[Guest Jodie]

As much as I'd like to see the movie for free on March 23rd, that Koala has sentimental value. Change the stakes and I may consider.

How did you know the photo was staged? Was it the missing arms?

No, it wasn't the lack of arms in your pic that was the dead give away, it was the fact that your Koala bear wasn't alive to walk in front of a camera that clued me in to the staging you had one.

So instead of the Koala, maybe a Barnes and Noble gift certificate?

[Guest CT Seeker]

How many times did you type it on your first planet that the aliens stole you from?

Three time-- I mean, this is my home planet!!!! really!!!

Turn that around.

This Bigfoot reasoning might be a convenient way to simply write off someone having a hallucination.

We have evidence of people hallucinating, and we have no physical evidence of an elusive, intelligent animal living in the PNW, and rural driveways of North America. I predict this paper will do nothing to contradict that statement.

Do you feel that way about the paper because you think Ketchum is a liar? Based on what? You seem predisposed to the idea that BF cannot exist then?

[Drew]

Do you feel that way about the paper because you think Ketchum is a liar? Based on what? You seem predisposed to the idea that BF cannot exist then?

I feel that way because it involves Bigfoot. Everyone turns out to be hoaxing, or getting hoaxed. All hype and no ape.

It has nothing to do with Ketchum. I didn't even know about her until this DNA thing. The track record of Bigfoot is one of hoaxing, lying, cheating, being hoaxed, making up excuses, hyping, and I am not buying anything to do with a DNA paper.

I am of the belief that Bigfoot is not a living actual creature. It is a myth. Look at the patterns of the discoveries. They start in the PNW where Roger Patterson and Wallace were hyping this creature, writing books, going on TV, then the sightings spread out from there, matching population densities, and following the media hype of the creature.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Drew

[southernyahoo]

So you don't buy the Denisova paper based on DNA, a tooth and tiny finger bone? How about when Ketchums paper publishes? Automatic bunk because bigfooters provided the samples? If they were from some archaic hominid not described from current DNA studies what did they get them from?

[Guest]

Drew, your thinking/feelings are the status quo and there is no cost to you to stay with that..

If you are serious in your inquiries try Bigfootencounters as a webiste that is deep, long lived, and noncommercial.

There are several sections of that website with some good reading and the owner of the site displays some of the most prudent choices in what is posted, it's not "we post it all you decide," but rather "this is what looks valid."....recent as well as historic.

I imagine you have read the few reference type books on the subject, but if not there are links on that website.

As for the Ketchum Study....April is closing in on us and I just have to believe no sane person would anticipate publically something that doesn't exist...so, it's coming, in some form.

I found the Red Deer People article quite encouragin actually, in that at least we seem to be accepting that we share a common ancestory and shared lives with other hominins, it won't be too big a step then to accept our wild selves, or close.

Edited March 15, 2012 by apehuman

[Guest slimwitless]

So instead of the Koala, maybe a Barnes and Noble gift certificate?

Hey, shouldn't you have to hazard a guess too? Nevermind. I'm confident. The paper will assert hybridized archaic hominid.

In other words, you're on.

[Guest]

But this hallucination reasoning is mightily convenient in order to simply write off people observing an . . .

I don't write them off. "Real bigfoot" remains among the viable list of alternative explanations for which "I don't know" is the only professional opinion I can offer for an anecdotal account.