Guest Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 sy, The ultimate decision of publication is that of the author. I agree with craichead that the journal in question is probably Nature. Yes, Nature can choose not to publish, but if Ketchum would not have ultimately sent them her paper they would have no say at all. Ketchum is ultimately in control. Newton published his ground-breaking work not in a peer-reviewed journal, but in his book, "Philosophiae Naturalis Principia Mathematica." If you wish to take the position that, as a result, classical mechanics, calculus, and gravitation are on a shaky foundation, I will happily allow you to defend it. Darwin published his ground-breaking work not in a peer-reviewed journal, but in his book, "On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection." I will eagerly cede to you the position that evolution, as a result, is on shaky grounds. Einstein never once published in a peer-reviewed journal. You are welcome to argue that, as a result, relativity and the photoelectric effect are nonsense. Ketchum is free to publish anytime she wants to, and to give presentations any time she wants to. I assume she is holding out for publication in a so-called elite journal out of ego and insecurity. Good science is a product of good logic, not where it is published -- as demonstrated by the history of science. Pt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southernyahoo Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 I beg to differ who is in control with publishing in a journal. You seem to be implying that Dr. Ketchum hasn't even submitted a manuscript, that would just be your opinion. Yes , She could just publish her paper online however she wants if it looks like it won't ever publish, but she owes a journal first right to publish if it is in peer review. Am I wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest slimwitless Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Ketchum is free to publish anytime she wants to, and to give presentations any time she wants to. I assume she is holding out for publication in a so-called elite journal out of ego and insecurity. Good science is a product of good logic, not where it is published -- as demonstrated by the history of science. Do all authors publish in "elite" journals out of ego and insecurity or just Dr. Ketchum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 I beg to differ who is in control with publishing in a journal. You seem to be implying that Dr. Ketchum hasn't even submitted a manuscript, that would just be your opinion. Yes , She could just publish her paper online however she wants if it looks like it won't ever publish, but she owes a journal first right to publish if it is in peer review. Am I wrong? I assume Ketchum has submitted a draft paper to Nature. I assume she has received comments and modified her draft in response to Nature's comments. I assume the comment-respone cycle has occurred more than once. Regardless, Ketchum is free to pull her paper and oublish it elsewhere anytime she wants -- as long as she informs Nature that is what she's doing. As far as I know, all journals demand the right to exclusive publication -- none of them want to waste their precious few pages publishing something that has already been published elsewhere or that is being published elsewhere. Do all authors publish in "elite" journals out of ego and insecurity or just Dr. Ketchum? In my opinion, most. Have you spent much time around academics? Inflated egos abound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronD Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Just curious, has anyone done a study to try to determine whether the majority of BF witnesses are female or male, average age of the witness, maybe even socioeconomic stats, etc??? I mean actual face to face eye witnesses, as opposed to those who merely hear howling, find footprints, and so on. It's been said that squatches may "choose" to interact with humans, just wondering what they tend to choose based on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 AaronD, you might want to check out this link. http://www.lawnflowersjerkyandbigfoots.com/Pages/Bigfoots.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Waynescod Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Is the steak done yet? I like mine medium well I hope it's worth the wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronD Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Hey thanks JohnC! Lotta good leads there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 (edited) Matt Moneymaker contacted Nature in the Fall or Winter of 2011 and posted a part of the reply. At that time the paper had been rejected for no "testable hypothesis." It may be she resubmitted, except I do think she also confirmed it won't be in Nature, and then began using Science as the example for "procedure" wrt to Journal releases. She has denied it will be published in anything less than a top end Scientific Journal...there are some that are geared toward "new" or "fringe" discoveries and established, but there are many also that deal with microbiology or genetics that might be appropriate. When is the "wait too long." What are the alternatives? Waiting, whether for this study or another. The continued partial evidence and FB/expedition stuff seems to me to be played out years ago with academia. More of that has perhaps simply solidified some skeptics views. Where is the Erickson footage? Oh, waiting on the "study." So, apparently that evidence isn't enough to stand on it's own w/o DNA? And Justin Smeja is still waiting for his results. If it doesn't happen before the May conference? LOl nothing, this thread will just get longer. I saw a reference to "other" as though there is another DNA study happening? Gosh I hope so... The only curious reference I have seen in some time was one to multiple law suits between the parties.. I assumed a reference to Stubstad and JavaBob's LLC with Ketchum...but, there could be others. Stubstad was recently added to the toenail rep's website....maybe that resolved that issue? I figure I am good for another few weeks, maybe months, and then if nothing produced? LOL, nothing. Edited April 8, 2012 by apehuman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 @Mulder: Please be explicit about what sort of organized scientific inquiry you think we need to prove the reality of Bigfoot. SY has suggested a hair analysis clearinghouse. What have you got? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Transformer Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Do all authors publish in "elite" journals out of ego and insecurity or just Dr. Ketchum? In my opinion, most. Have you spent much time around academics? Inflated egos abound. I cannot let this go without challenging your claim Pteronarcyd. Of the tens of thousands of "academics" in North America how many have you "spent much time around" and do you think that your very small sample group is truly statistically relevant and allows you make to make such an insulting statement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest slimwitless Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 In my opinion, most. Have you spent much time around academics? Inflated egos abound. Actually yeah, I know a few. At least one has a published paper. Nice guy. The peer review process will hopefully result is a stronger paper. Let's pretend Ketchum posted her results on a web site instead of (hypothetically) sequencing the genome at the request of an "elite" journal. Wally Hersom would have saved some money at the expense of the conclusion being incomplete or even wrong. Someone might even steal the work, flesh it out and take the credit. The history of science is filled with people that didn't get their due. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronD Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 I think what Pteronarcyd means is that when you get a bunch of academic super achievers together, there is an aura of arrogance and disregard to others' opinions in the air. Like "I have this degree or that research under my belt, therefore......" I don't really mind it, though, I find it amusing because you see these goofy geeks acting like they're supermodels or something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jodie Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 You get that in any field or in any social situation Aaron, humans are like primates in establishing pecking orders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Of the tens of thousands of "academics" in North America how many have you "spent much time around" and do you think that your very small sample group is truly statistically relevant and allows you make to make such an insulting statement? I have spent significant time around hundreds of academics. My father was an adjunct professor at two universities, and I have dealt with academics in college, graduate school, as part of my job, and at many scientific conferences. My sample size far exceeds 30, the threshold commonly used to separate small and large samples (although this distinction actually depends on what statistical test is being conducted, and at what rates of significance and power). However, my sample is not random; thus, I can make no valid statistical representations. All I can do is relay my perception of my experiences. Why do you choose to regard that as insulting? If one were to design a valid experiment to compare average ego size in academics to, say, drive-thru workers at McDonald's, what would you predict the outcome to be? I promise I won't be insulted to hear your opinion. e-thru workers at McDonald's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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