Guest Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 Honestly is there really people on here that watch NBC news on thursday to see if the paper is coming out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BFSleuth Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 No, it's better to simply log into any news sight at 2:00 pm EST that covers science news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incorrigible1 Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 Yeah, some of Parn's friendly, neighborhood straw men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cervelo Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 Tell us more about this. Is this a joke? How do we know what alien DNA is composed of? The exact same way you do Bigfoot....please tell me that was a high fast one and you were not serious!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Particle Noun Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 I've seen several people here (don't know if it's worth going back for specific references) who say that they are so used to disappointment in this field that they are automatically suspicious of anything BF related (very general paraphrasing there). In one sense, this is entirely justifiable. I'm curious though (and genuinely curious, not trying to trap anyone here), what have been your biggest disappointments? Personally, this is the only BF related event which has actually excited me. However, I am aware of at least these: The Georgia boys (infamous, and I find it strange that they are still trying to be involved in the field after such shameful behavior) Todd Standing (I've always felt this was baloney, but understand there are still some who give him the benefit of the doubt) That One Press Conference Where They Showed Pictures of a Smear on a Truck Window (don't remember the principals involved, but in my view it looked exactly like what I would expect a bear face to leave on a door) What other events or studies or stories are out there that got people excited only to have the rug pulled out from under them? Again, I ask this in earnest, without snark. Also, about the alien thing, lets be clear that the ONLY place this has come from is RL, and in no way has ever come out of the mouths or fingers of Dr. Ketchum or Sally Ramey. I don't think anyone has, but this is not something that should be used to denigrate the potential study or the seriousness of it's proponents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 (edited) Yeah, some of Parn's friendly, neighborhood straw men. For heaven's sake Mulder, this little gem from you may be more damning to any visage of your objectivity than anything any of us have ever written about you. It appears to me that your perception is something like this: Scientists who study bigfoot and claim bigfoot is real = brave paradigm-challengers. Scientists who study bigfoot and find the evidence lacking = liars, frauds, victims of the establishment. Scientists who review bigfoot papers and find the evidence lacking = liars, frauds, victims of the establishment. Scientists who don't study bigfoot or review papers about it = the establishment (actively trying to quash any research about bigfoot). Is that about right, or have I committed some error in interpretation of your remarks that you will label in Latin and dismiss? Sas how are scientist going to explain a giant hairy ape living under our noses. Lets just say for a moment that Kechum has all the proof she needs to prove this beast. Is science going to look totally foolish or what. Remember when the ol Hunster use to talk about holding the government wildlife officials responsible for not knowing this beast was right under our nose. Isn't science going to be in the same boat. Now you constantly try to marginalize Mulders point on this, but he's right. Don't forget he has seen one also, so he knows it is eventually going to come out. I can completely see his point on this. Assuming Ketchum has the goods. Science seems to be completely led by the almighty grant and the politics that come with it. Its the same with the global warming hoax. Edited April 19, 2012 by Thepattywagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest slimwitless Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Global warming hoax? Okay, then. By the way, if Ketchum has the proof, it will be because of science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Which has absolutely nothing to do with anything we are talking about...next attempt to derail? Your opinion is wrong. No derail attempt; it is related to evidence of absence. You have no interest in formal logic? No more sharing with you then. Nope. A pig and a "porcine animal" are both swine by different names. What do you have against pigs, Mulder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RayG Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 What other events or studies or stories are out there that got people excited only to have the rug pulled out from under them? Excited? Not a whole lot. Hopeful? Lots of things. The stories John Green wrote about in numerous publications.Skookum Cast, LMS, Pine Ridge, Norway House, Cave Junction, Teslen, Memorial Day footage, New York bigfoot baby, Snelgrove Lake, Bindernagel's sighting, DNA testing, etc. etc. So far none of it has panned out, which is why I find it hard to get enthused about recent pronouncements and claims. Habituation, for example, and I had serious doubts about bigfoot in a freezer from the moment it was announced. It's also disappointing to see the lack of investigative rigor displayed by some of the people providing bigfoot 'news'. I suggest followers of the bigfoot mystery exercise some caution when reading what seems to be factual information. A little digging sometimes uncovers a less sensational truth. RayG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronD Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Does anyone remember "The Bigfoot News" a little publication back in the 70's that cost $5/year and was sent out monthly??? It was generated from a little trailer somewhere in N. Calif called the Bigfoot Information center. Just wondering if anyone had any recollection of this? And possibly, if they're still alive, where the folks involved are today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jodie Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Sorry Inc I don't have a plus left. When are people going to see, Parn is not here to help. No one is here to "help", we are all here to express our expert opinions on the issues as if we knew what we were talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 I find it amazing that Lindsay could take Dr. Ketchum's statement that the evidence was, "out of this world" and run with it to the point where he is reporting that she is in fact claiming the DNA is made of alien material. It's just good, solid journalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest slimwitless Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Personally, this is the only BF related event which has actually excited me. However, I am aware of at least these: I'm with you there Mr. Noun. I was only interested in the Georgia boys for the amount of time it took me to do a cursory Google search. I was aware of the DNA study but what really set the hook was the Lindsay's leak of the Sierra kills story. I figured out Justin's name in short order and some additional poking around suggested this wasn't your garden variety bigfoot hoax. Of course the jury is still out even as the hook is still in. Also, about the alien thing, lets be clear that the ONLY place this has come from is RL, and in no way has ever come out of the mouths or fingers of Dr. Ketchum or Sally Ramey. I don't think anyone has, but this is not something that should be used to denigrate the potential study or the seriousness of it's proponents. As I recall, even Lindsay hopes she's not going there. It wouldn't surprise me if some of the alien stuff is coming from someone close to Paulides. The man seems to have a special interest in extraterrestrials. I recall reading an article he wrote about bigfoot (including discussion of the DNA study) in a MUFON journal. It's either that, or someone is trying to out a mole. Sally Ramey has specifically banned any alien discussion from the Ketchum FB pages. That should tell you something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Jerrywayne, that works, but assumes that you know what every last bit of "positive evidence" looks like, so as to conclude there is a complete absence. Since you are dealing with an unknown unstudied critter, it is problematic in practice to arrive at a complete absence. In my understanding, the absence of evidence argument is more nuanced than you portray it. As I would employ it, it is not a question of absolutes, of "complete absence" or "every last bit" of evidence. Instead, it is the weighing of the positive and negative aspects of individual phenomena. The evidence of absence need not be conclusive to be persuasive (as is also true of positive evidence). It would also include a consideration of what ought not be absent but is absent in a particular event. Of coarse, you and I would seriously disagree on the balance or lack of such in considering the positive evidence and the evidence of absence. As is often the case in human communication, we may speak the same language and yet still not understand one another. Another issue I would like to note, and it probably has been mentioned by others, is the idea that Bigfoot is a virtually magical monster, so unlike anything else that it defies normal understanding of fauna. If every other [known] North American mammal has been shot by hunters or has become road kill, Bigfoot is not only special in not succumbing to such mundane fate, some Bigfooters seem to believe Bigfoot is so too different an animal for us to even expect it to have a similar fate as other wildlife. I mention this because your "unknown unstudied critter" is a faint echo of the "Bigfoot is especially special" belief. In the context of your statement, this special status seems plausible on the surface; yet scientists extrapolate all the time from the known to the unknown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southernyahoo Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Why don't you? I am not one of the people who watch NBC news on Thursday afternoon to try to find out if the paper is coming out on Friday. And, frankly, Slim, if those people who are doing so, don't have enough self-respect to ask these questions themselves, I'm not going out of my way to ask FOR them. p. They are your questions Parn, I think most are satisfied that the paper is at a journal. The timeline from acceptance to actual publication date would also be up to the editors wouldn't it? So how would any of the answers help you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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