The Ketchum Report

[Guest]

That's a helpful distinction, Mulder. Here's my pure conjecture: for a certain period of time (perhaps many thousands of years), there was an ongoing regime of interbreeding between HSS females and The Other Primate males, the latter, in most cases, probably overpowering/raping the former, given that the latter were almost certainly MUCH larger. (I mean think about it: if the offspring were 7-10 feet tall, and Mom was 5.5 feet tall, how enormous must Dad have been?! And consider how rarely the mothers would even have been able to survive childbirth.) The offspring were then both physically far superior to HSS and mentally far superior to The Other Primate.

Not far enough out on a limb yet? TOP died out because of male HSS retaliation.

Edited May 16, 2012 by Christopher Noel

[Guest]

That's a helpful distinction, Mulder. Here's my pure conjecture: for a certain period of time (perhaps many thousands of years), there was an ongoing regime of interbreeding between HSS females and The Other Primate males, the latter, in most cases, probably overpowering/raping the former, given that the latter were almost certainly MUCH larger. (I mean think about it: if the offspring were 7-10 feet tall, and Mom was 5.5 feet tall, how enormous must Dad have been?! And consider how rarely the mothers would even have been able to survive childbirth.) The offspring were then both physically far superior to HSS and mentally far superior to The Other Primate.

Not far enough out on a limb yet? TOP died out because of male HSS retaliation.

Hybrids can be much bigger than either parent. Look up pictures of tigons and ligers sometime...they can be HUGE. Much bigger than either parent.

By the way, your theory sounds much like the Neanderthal Predation theory. Have you read "Them and Us"?

Edited May 16, 2012 by Mulder

[Guest]

Thank you, Mulder, I never knew that. I just found...

"The liger is the largest known cat in the world.Imprinted genes may be a factor contributing to huge liger size. These are genes that may or may not be expressed on the parent they are inherited from, and that occasionally play a role in issues of hybrid growth. For example, in some dog breed crosses, genes that are expressed only when maternally inherited cause the young to grow larger than is typical for either parent breed. This growth is not seen in the paternal breeds, as such genes are normally 'counteracted' by genes inherited from the female of the appropriate breed."

No, I haven't read Them and Us yet.

Edited May 16, 2012 by Christopher Noel

[BobZenor]

If the father was a Neanderthal and the mother a early human the mtDNA would show human right ?

Just finished reading "Them and Us" and on a basic level it makes total sense.

The child would be a hybrid. The mtDNA would show human. It would be the same as the mothers. The nuDNA would be roughly half modern human. The great great great... grand children down the maternal lineage would all have modern human mtDNA. The sequence of the random base pairs in the non coding regions is what they generally use to check relationships. After several generations there wouldn't be much modern human nuDNA in the descendents if the original modern human was an isolated modern human that mated long ago. The later descendents would be essentially a Neanderthal in that population based on nuDNA but it could have nearly pure modern human mtDNA.

The point is that all you have to have is a single female modern human ancestor thousands of generations ago to account for pure modern human mtDNA. It would pretty much have to have been a long time ago for most all sasquatch to have it. Some lineages of mtDNA do seem to have survival advantages and are apparently selected by evolution. It is conceivable for sasquatch to have lost their original sasquatch mtDNA and them to have been basically pure sasquatch nuDNA after many generations. If they are close enough to breed, you are going to have a hard time seeing the differences in the nuclear DNA because it is far more complicated and it all mixes up besides a significant portion of the Y-chromosome which doesn't recombine and therefore can trace much more ancient or recent ancestors than other nuDNA. They can also check the sequences in Y-chromosome to estimate when two different ones shared a common ancestor based on difference in the sequence. They can't do that as well with other nuclear DNA besides the Y chromosome because of crossing over or genetic recombination. MtDNA tests for maternal lineage and parts of the Y-chromosome can trace paternal relationships. Other nuDNA can still see changes over time but with all the mixing it would be more difficult to prove and it won't be as accurate. You basically have to prove a negative that any genes you find don't exist in modern humans. It should be doable but it is a much more difficult proof than simply comparing sequences in the mtDNA.

There are a few things that should exist in this hypothetical breeding population of sasquatch. They should be very similar to each other and much of their genes should be unique to the population or not modern human. I would imagine that both of those things would need to be proven to demonstrate a separate population or species. Some of the leaks indicate that they did find some unique nuDNA that apparently doesn't exist in normal modern humans. We will have to wait and see what she actually found but it is theoretically plausible for it to have very ancient nuDNA and modern human mtDNA. It could be very distantly related and still have modern human mtDNA. That scenario if true could be described as a curve ball that would confuse most DNA diagnostic tests and have them come back as modern humans when they really weren't.

[Guest]

Thanks, BobZenor, that's helpful too...this is like a free genetics seminar!

[Guest slimwitless]

Meldrum is involved in a parallel DNA study.

Link

[Guest Particle Noun]

That is just incredibly great.

Clearly there can be nothing to this at all, if Mr. Sykes is involved.

Seriously, if he is already planning on writing a book about this, and there is a documentary in the works, is it likely there is NOTHING AT ALL TO THIS as some skeptics claim, or is is possible that [speculation] Dr. Melbdrum and Dr. Sykes have some information about Dr. Ketchum's study, and are intrigued enough to want to publish parallel findings? [/speculation]

I think this is a seriously big announcement.

[Guest slimwitless]

This does seem like a big deal.

[Guest MikeG]

Bob raises an important point.

These tests of DNA don't generally involve the full sequencing of the nuDNA of the mtDNA. They involve looking at small selected samples at specific points in the sequence. That is why statisticians become involved. If you sample 1% of something, you need a statistician to tell you whether that sample is from something that has been sampled before. This again is another way in which DNA could appear to be something that it isn't....simply by the sampling not showing up any difference.

Mike

[Guest Particle Noun]

Really, I'm getting chills a little. If he is already prepared to write a book and produce a three hour documentary, is it really plausible there is nothing to this? Why go to such great lengths to document a study which will have no 'there' there.

Without any snark at all, I am curious as to how Sas and Parn see this development? I know neither of you are geneticists, but having asked "where are these vaunted PHDs?", and now having a very prominent one in a parallel study, does this intrigue you at all?

[bipedalist]

Sounds worthy of a separate thread. There may be some more real science behind this one. I have Sykes' "Eve" book and it is a good one.

Edited May 16, 2012 by bipedalist

[Guest]

I just finished reading Bryan Sykes' book The Seven Daughters of Eve. I thought it was excellent. What is the rap against him, Particle Noun, or anyone else? Am I missing something?

Edited May 16, 2012 by Christopher Noel

[Guest Particle Noun]

No rap at all. It was my inartful and misplaced attempt at sarcasm! I meant to intimate that with him on board, an air of legitimacy to this whole affair might be in the making.

[Guest BFSleuth]

Bryan Sykes is involved in the parallel bigfoot DNA study.

[Guest Particle Noun]

...we've been saying