The Ketchum Report

[Guest]

He wasn't talking about me. I hoaxed my science project in 7th grade. I won by the way. I did an extensive soil study of different areas of the state of Arizona, taking samples from Flagstaff, Sedona, Payson, Phoenix, Gila Bend and a few others. I planted beans in each container and you got a real time look at the growth variation. What nobody knew was that they were all from by backyard in the ghetto. Hey I was 12, so sue me. I hope I am not labeled at the Biscardi of beans.

[bipedalist]

No chance of that, but as to the "father of flatus" I'm afraid the other guy got a lock on you there, lol.

Gregor Mendel, he ain't!

Edited August 7, 2012 by bipedalist

[Guest]

"That's something, huh?? Put these unknown biological samples together with those footprints you were looking at, that really compelling video taken by that Patterson guy, and the thousands of eyewitness reports and I think we might have something here! I know it's in no way proof, but it sure is interesting! I don't expect you to take any of this as proof, mind you, just don't ridicule me for wanting to investigate further, since that's the only hope of ever finding your precious proof!"

Doesn't this mean you are out investigating possible evidence? Or did I read it wrong, and you are simply a bigfoot enthusiast?

I agree with you that all of the possible evidence you've brought up is interesting, otherwise I wouldn't be here, I just think you ought to be more judicious about where you place your faith when it involves bigfoot for the right reasons. You admit that none of what you mentioned in the last few pages is proof, but yet you believe it exists. If you do get out and investigate, that bias will cloud your impressions for whatever you find.

That is not ridicule, it's a statement of fact. Let the evidence lead you, but educate yourself well enough to recognize the quality of the evidence. I'm not sure how I stuck my foot in my mouth, other than to confuse you with JDL when I see you referred to as NGJ, as opposed to RL and DMK, who can't be confused with MK.....then we have NDA's for the OP and the EP....I think I need a glossary.

[Guest]

CTFoot, I think I overreacted to what actually just amounts to a misunderstanding. When I wrote that, I was engaged in a pretend hypothetical conversation between a proponent and a skeptic. I am not an investigator, just an enthusiast as you've put it. The stuff that is out there is enough for me to believe it's probably real, but I could never expect anyone to accept it as absolute proof. The only people who have "proof" are the ones who have seen the animal with their own two eyes.

Let me be clear, if I were ever to undertake or participate in a scientific endeavor regarding the existence of Bigfoot, then I would be looking for real P-R-O-O-F. I just personally have decided I have seen enough to believe that there's really something out there making those footprints and inspiring these eyewitness accounts.

Sorry about jumping down your throat, obviously you didn't mean it the way I thought you did.

[Guest]

No, it's accurately pointing out that none of the complaints were about RESULTS from the lab, but rather business matters regarding report deliveries, etc.

Her SCIENCE is unchallenged. This BBB nonsense is the same sort of character assassination BS that Kita tries to pull with his "Roger Patterson didn't return a rented camera/got sued/etc, therefore the PGF is a hoax" blather.

Actually there are a couple of complaints about getting false results. One on 9/3/2010 at this link easttexas.app.bbb.org/viewcomplaints/24003140

another on 4/23/2012 here www.bbb.org/cincinnati/Business-Reviews/dna-testing/dna-diagnostics-center-in-fairfield-oh-1051480/complaints/

[TimB]

Two questions-

1) What is an acceptable percentage error for lab work?

2) When did Ketchum start an office in Cincinnati, OH?

Tim B.

[Guest]

What I am saying is there is a bias for Ketchum on this forum. Certain standards of character, integrity and conduct that should be expected of her are routinely dismissed because everybody thinks she is going to be the one to prove bigfoot.

Gonna challenge you a bit here as I find this post ridiculous.

Couple of things to keep in mind...

Your post suggesting *bias* towards Ketchum seems a *shot* across the bow of the stalwart members of Staff on this forum.

No such *bias* exists I can assure you.

We are not a research organization and the forum itself takes no *official* stance either pro or con related to the subject.

As individuals, we each have our own opinions, but they do not play any semblance of a role in our enforcement of the Rules & Guidelines as members of Staff.

Conversely, the name of this Forum is *The Bigfoot Forum's* it is not named the *anti-Bigfoot Forums*.

As such, do not be surprised if there are more here who post in support of the viability of BF than those who take an opposing stance.

So, I reject your premise of *bias* wholeheartedly.

If you see Staff limiting the voice of *skeptics* then you might have something.

You have never witnessed such.

It's a tough balancing act, sort of akin to the *Walenda's High-Wire Routine* but one in which Staff negotiates in an appropriate manner to maintain the neutrality of the site.

Still, this is The Bigfoot Forum's and not the anti-Bigfoot Forum's.

So do not be shocked to see a higher level of the membership take on a stance of advocacy.

This is the BFF 2.0 and not the BFF 1.0. Trust me, we learned from the mistakes made there in running away the proponents.

And the bigfoot believing community should be angry with her instead of worshipping her because she's using their good nature to take advantage of them and their money.

Where has Dr K ever taken advantage of the BF community and their money.

A broad-brushed accusation like that needs some measure of substantive back-up or it will be rendered as ridiculous.

Look, I'm the CA here and have been fairly outspoken in my thoughts that the Ketchum Report has been severely mis-handled from a PR perspective.

The constant promises of *soon* on FB postings grate on my nerves and IMO do the subject tremendous harm with each passing day.

But darned if I'll allow posts suggesting *bias* on this forum, or those suggesting Dr K has profited monetarily to permeate and distract from the relevant discussion.

Either substantiate them or retract them.

If either of you, (Darrell or FuzzyGremlin) want to go head-up I am game and ready.

You can't make ridiculous accusations and not expect to be challenged to support them.

[bipedalist]

Actually there are a couple of complaints about getting false results. One on 9/3/2010 at this link easttexas.app.bbb.org/viewcomplaints/24003140

another on 4/23/2012 here www.bbb.org/cincinnati/Business-Reviews/dna-testing/dna-diagnostics-center-in-fairfield-oh-1051480/complaints/

Seems these are incorporated under different names, one center has 23 complaints and the other 19.

One is named DNA Diagnostics Center Inc. (OH?) the other is DNA Diagnostics Inc. dba Shelterwood Labs. (TX).

What evidence do you have that they are one and the same?

Edited August 7, 2012 by bipedalist

[Guest Darrell]

HR, are you posting your reply as a member participating in the discussion or as the chief administrator? All Im saying is this forum is more than willing to dismiss viable concerns about Dr Ketchum and her study that they would not dismiss when dealing with a skeptical scientist and study, or really any counter argument. Any reasonable person can grant a measure of "rose colored glasses" on this forum as it is the "Bigfoot Forum" but it still seems the majority of the proponents turn a blind eye or deaf ear to any concerns pertaining to Ketchums business practices, leadership, and integrity. I have been told Dr Ketchum is a member here but cant find that she has ever posted anything. Can you please direct me to some of the discussions she has participated in?

[Guest]

I didn't notice the one was in OH. scratch it.

Edited August 7, 2012 by squating squatch

[Guest slimwitless]

I have been told Dr Ketchum is a member here but cant find that she has ever posted anything. Can you please direct me to some of the discussions she has participated in?

She's only posted here twice. Maybe she lost interest.

[southernyahoo]

HR, are you posting your reply as a member participating in the discussion or as the chief administrator? All Im saying is this forum is more than willing to dismiss viable concerns about Dr Ketchum and her study that they would not dismiss when dealing with a skeptical scientist and study, or really any counter argument. Any reasonable person can grant a measure of "rose colored glasses" on this forum as it is the "Bigfoot Forum" but it still seems the majority of the proponents turn a blind eye or deaf ear to any concerns pertaining to Ketchums business practices, leadership, and integrity. I have been told Dr Ketchum is a member here but cant find that she has ever posted anything. Can you please direct me to some of the discussions she has participated in?

One or two persons concerns or doubts does not amount to any proof of any wrong doing. How would a few disgruntled people affect the science of a peer reviewed paper?

If you are logged in, go to top of page, click on members, down the left side of the screen you will see the alphabet. Select the letter K then go to the nineth page. She is Ketchum and has two posts. One was addressing Stubstad the other in this thread I think.

[Guest]

Mulder,I'm talking about people like JDL who claim to do research with the forgone conclusion that Bigfoot exists. The evidence might suggest something but even the scientists you name recognize that their evidence isn't definitive.

All acceed to a fair point.

HR, are you posting your reply as a member participating in the discussion or as the chief administrator? All Im saying is this forum is more than willing to dismiss viable concerns about Dr Ketchum and her study that they would not dismiss when dealing with a skeptical scientist and study, or really any counter argument. Any reasonable person can grant a measure of "rose colored glasses" on this forum as it is the "Bigfoot Forum" but it still seems the majority of the proponents turn a blind eye or deaf ear to any concerns pertaining to Ketchums business practices, leadership, and integrity. I have been told Dr Ketchum is a member here but cant find that she has ever posted anything. Can you please direct me to some of the discussions she has participated in?

I think HR made himself perfectly clear. And you can look Ketchum up in the member directory. She, like Dr Meldrum, is a confirmed, but non-posting member.

She's only posted here twice. Maybe she lost interest.

Or is just too busy with her work, like Dr Meldrum.

Edited August 7, 2012 by Mulder

[southernyahoo]

I'm talking about people like _______ who claim to do research with the forgone conclusion that Bigfoot exists.

Can you really insert anyones name in the blank and speak for them as to what their beliefs actually are? Should anyone investigate the question of bigfoots existence then? Why is it necessary to project a belief on a complete stranger whom you've never met? I know some investigators that started after their own personal encounter, do they believe or do they know? Why would anyone investigate the question of BF's existence if they felt all the evidence was fabricated?

[Guest]

HR, are you posting your reply as a member participating in the discussion or as the chief administrator? All Im saying is this forum is more than willing to dismiss viable concerns about Dr Ketchum and her study that they would not dismiss when dealing with a skeptical scientist and study, or really any counter argument.

I'm posting as both the Chief Administrator and a member if that makes sense.

As CA, I have to be careful so that my posts are clear.

I think I've done that.

Both Dr K and Dr Meldrum are members here and I'll not allow anyone to disparage the professional integrity of either of them.

As members, they are protected from such.

Neither are going to post too much here due to the *tone* of some of the skeptical posts and their busy schedules, which is an absolute shame IMHO.

Still, I get it from their perspective.

Pisses me off to no end, as I worked hard to have them join and this is a Bigfoot Forum, but it is sort of what it is I reckon.

We allow skeptical input, and I will always believe that is the best road to be traversed.

But I'll be damned if I'm going to allow either Dr K or Dr Meldrum to be castigated here.

We are proud to have both Dr K and Dr Meldrum as members and their integrity will be protected by my Staff or I will find a new Staff.

No room for ambiguity in that statement just so all are aware.

If memory serves Darrell, you intimated a feeling of bias towards Dr K and FuzzyGremlin indicated that Dr K had profited from her fooling of the BF community.

Gonna ask you both to provide substantive proof or cede that you bit off more than you could chew.

I'll sit back and await either as you are both wrong and need to be called on the baseless assertions.