Guest Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 ^I predict a long wait. We're still (last I heard) waiting for Tontar to apologize to Bill Munns. Skeptics never seem to apologize even when they get caught "off reservation". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 (edited) So, Erickson hasn't lost any money to Ketchum, and she hasn't taken any other funds for any tests on any other 'bigfoot' samples? Based on her track record, especially the BBB reports, my guess is that her bigfoot test results will be just as dubious. That's just an opinion based on what I've been reading on this site and others. If anyone wants to get all chest-puffy over that opinion or call it any number of colorful adjectives please feel free. Thank you Edited August 7, 2012 by FuzzyGremlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelefoot Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 (edited) Gonna challenge you a bit here as I find this post ridiculous. Couple of things to keep in mind... Your post suggesting *bias* towards Ketchum seems a *shot* across the bow of the stalwart members of Staff on this forum. No such *bias* exists I can assure you. We are not a research organization and the forum itself takes no *official* stance either pro or con related to the subject. As individuals, we each have our own opinions, but they do not play any semblance of a role in our enforcement of the Rules & Guidelines as members of Staff. Conversely, the name of this Forum is *The Bigfoot Forum's* it is not named the *anti-Bigfoot Forums*. As such, do not be surprised if there are more here who post in support of the viability of BF than those who take an opposing stance. So, I reject your premise of *bias* wholeheartedly. If you see Staff limiting the voice of *skeptics* then you might have something. You have never witnessed such. It's a tough balancing act, sort of akin to the *Walenda's High-Wire Routine* but one in which Staff negotiates in an appropriate manner to maintain the neutrality of the site. Still, this is The Bigfoot Forum's and not the anti-Bigfoot Forum's. So do not be shocked to see a higher level of the membership take on a stance of advocacy. This is the BFF 2.0 and not the BFF 1.0. Trust me, we learned from the mistakes made there in running away the proponents. Where has Dr K ever taken advantage of the BF community and their money. A broad-brushed accusation like that needs some measure of substantive back-up or it will be rendered as ridiculous. Look, I'm the CA here and have been fairly outspoken in my thoughts that the Ketchum Report has been severely mis-handled from a PR perspective. The constant promises of *soon* on FB postings grate on my nerves and IMO do the subject tremendous harm with each passing day. But darned if I'll allow posts suggesting *bias* on this forum, or those suggesting Dr K has profited monetarily to permeate and distract from the relevant discussion. Either substantiate them or retract them. If either of you, (Darrell or FuzzyGremlin) want to go head-up I am game and ready. You can't make ridiculous accusations and not expect to be challenged to support them. Well said and I agree. I feel this forum has been tremendously tolerate of the opinions of the anti-Ketchum croud and their rantings that border on calling her a liar and a thief, among other things. Regardless of opinions, I respect HRP for stepping in and enforcing the rules... considering Melba is a member here. It has to be a difficult job, but a fine job is being done at it... HRP. Long time lurker, Michele Edited August 7, 2012 by chelefoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tontar Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 ^I predict a long wait. We're still (last I heard) waiting for Tontar to apologize to Bill Munns. Skeptics never seem to apologize even when they get caught "off reservation". I see no relevance to this thread in his post. But since you have some lingering issue that can't seem to be resolved without my response to it, I'll respond. Any apology I may or may not owe Bill Munns is between he and I. As he owes me significantly more apologies than I owe him, then I'm happy to let the offenses go and call it even, done, over. If you want to persist in trying to weasel some unwarranted apology out of me for a non-offense, then you ought to be fair and start oogling some out of Bill as well. When you see me start using words to describe Bill or anyone else as pathetic, idiotic, insane, and so on, then start asking me to apologize. Until then, see ya. As far as the Ketchum article, I'm still waiting to see what happens. And FYI, I haven't called her any names either. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelefoot Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 NO....I can't say that I have seen you call her names at all. I was referring to others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Certainly entitled to your opinion FuzzyGremlin but your above post makes it sound like you have no proof of your previous allegations that Dr. K has profited from the BF community. As such I will place them in Drawer 13 along with all of the other baseless allegations. Nobody is going *ballistic* at all FG. Just asking for substantiation to back up an assertion you made which I'm now assuming you can't. The members will decide what weight to afford it and that is kind of how it should be I guess. We are nothing without our members. You got proof Erickson lost money to Ketchum? In all sincerity I do think some of his photo's and videos are part of the study. But I've never heard anything about Dr. K making any profit off of them or the community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gerrykleier Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 I've never put much weight in the BBB complaints. I own a small business and I've never heard anybody else like me compliment the BBB and I've heard the occasional complaint. It's important to remember that the BBB is not a government entity, nor enforcing any laws. They decide what is good business behavior and what is not without any real governmental input. They are technically a Non-Profit Organization, but to my mind that is meaningless except to the IRS. I'm not sure they carry any more weight than YELP etc. Gotta admit that a complaint about an unreturned Bigfoot Skull was probably among the most unusual they've handled! However, we don't even know if the complaints are 'adjudicated' by a live person who reads them and contacts the business or if they are simply posted via the internet with the onus of discovering and 'resolving' the complaint left to the business owner. Maybe Ketchum simply doesn't waste her time with the BBB as she has more than enough business to take up her time. GK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BFSleuth Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Actually there are a couple of complaints about getting false results. One on 9/3/2010 at this link easttexas.app.bbb.org/viewcomplaints/24003140 another on 4/23/2012 here www.bbb.org/cincinnati/Business-Reviews/dna-testing/dna-diagnostics-center-in-fairfield-oh-1051480/complaints/ I won't address the incorrect business link. Of the other link I see one complaint that says, "received incorrect results"... not exactly sure what that means. It could mean that their prized dog was actually just a mutt, and the customer was upset. Did the complainant submit and receive a different result from another lab? We really don't know and it is a stretch to say that it is a "false result" without further information. Based on her track record, especially the BBB reports, my guess is that her bigfoot test results will be just as dubious. Well if the BBB reports are your cornerstone for denigrating Dr. Ketchum I'm not sure what to say, other than welcome to the land of anonymous and frivolous complainants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MikeG Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 All Im saying is this forum is more than willing to dismiss viable concerns about Dr Ketchum and her study that they would not dismiss when dealing with a skeptical scientist and study,................. I don't understand this Darrell. What on earth do you mean by "the forum" in this context? You are implying that this disparate group of people from all over the world, most of whom will never have met, speak somehow with one voice? Or do you mean that the staff have a bias towards one viewpoint? Or do you mean that the forum management set the thing up in the first place with an in-built bias of some sort? Or that the rules treat one group of people different from another. Before you answer that, let me put my moderator's hat on: Folks. We're doing it again. We're talking about each other, and about the forum, rather than about the Ketchum Report, which after all, is what it says at the top of the page. I must have posted a similar advisory every 5 pages for the last 2 or 3 months. Learn, and learn quickly, or we'll have to start enforcing your learning. STOP TALKING ABOUT EACH OTHER. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 (edited) The question about if Ketchum is making money off this should be simple to solve. We have members who have submitted samples to be tested. Did they have to pay to get their samples test or is Ketchum being funded by some other source? Here is a blog post about a guy named Wally Hersom, who was supposedly (they aren't sure if he still is) funding the Ketchum dna study. link http://bigfooteviden...gfoot-made.html Edited August 7, 2012 by squating squatch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MikeG Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Isn't the question of whether or not Ketchum is making or will make money out of the project irrelevant? I wouldn't give two hoots either way. The only thing that counts is the published work, and it's replication/ rejection/ whatever by independant groups of scientists, in my view. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Twilight Fan Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 There are a lot of people talking about eachother. I haven't checked this thread in quite some time. Thought I'd pop in here today for a quick sec to see if there were any new updates to the Ketchum report/findings? But all I see on the last page are people talking about other stuff, lol So I'll just ask: Anything new and noteworthy yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 (edited) Since the BBB seems to keep getting brought up as some sort of "proof" that Ketchum's lab is somehow shady or untrustworthy, I'd like to link to a couple of things that don't exactly cast the BBB in the best light either:' 20/20 investigation of the BBB and one man's example of the BBB's shady practices http://www.thebluesm...and.com/bbb.php articles on bbb corruption http://www.slate.com/articles/business/the_customer/2010/12/busted_watchdog.html http://news.consumerreports.org/money/2010/11/better-business-bureau-connecticut-ag-abc.html http://www.trulia.com/blog/leanderrealty/2011/11/formal_warning_against_the_better_business_bureau_bbb_for_corruption_bad_business_ethics Edited August 7, 2012 by Mulder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cotter Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Twilight Fan - The answer to your question is no. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BFSleuth Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Mulder, +1 for posting that video and links regarding the shakedown practices of the BBB. I can attest to this fact from experiences of friends that are business owners, not only the BBB but Yelp. You can google "Yelp fraud" and find plenty of links about that situation. If the BBB shakedown is similar to Yelp, it works because they apply a different algorithm to a paid member. The paid algorithm will eliminate frivolous negative reports... at least that is how it was explained to me by a friend in the "industry". This is why I think that anyone that is attempting to denigrate a business, let alone a BFF forum member, based on BBB complaints, is very misguided. I cannot state in strong enough terms how much I abhor the BBB (or Yelp). To say that consumers are being misled is an understatement. Now, back to the regularly scheduled discussion of The Ketchum Report, DNA analysis, etc. etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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