Guest Particle Noun Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 I see what you are saying Darrell, but don't understand why you are belaboring the point. You are suggesting something which, to my knowledge, has never happened. I've never seen proponents use a BBB rating against anyone. We have seen detractors of the study use the BBB against Dr. Ketchum and her study, but to my knowledge, the reverse has never been true. You can say it would be true, or would happen, but that is nothing more than unsubstantiated opinion. Nothing wrong with that. As many have been pointing out, this thread is rife with that. But why keep bringing that into the discussion? It is clear you believe some or all proponents would use a negative BBB rating against a skeptic, or someone they disagree with, but this is purely a hypothetical. Perhaps a more direct method of getting across what you are trying to say, without having to refer to a situation which doesn't exist, is to point out specific instances where proponents have used negative public records to attempt to discredit a skeptic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BFSleuth Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 That is well said, PN. For the same reason I would not consider BBB evidence I also do not consider polygraph evidence, for or against any person or entity. BBB reports and polygraph tests are both unsubstantiated "tests" that border on fraud IMHO. Anyone can use the search feature for "polygraph evidence" and my username to find many references to my opinions and concerns about that. It is far better to stick to factual, verifiable, and reliable information in our discussions whenever possible. I might also add to Darrell that I think it would be easy enough to find many proponents of BF jumping down the throats of known hoaxers or people that present dubious evidence. Go look at some of the threads in the Videos forum for examples. I don't think there are many proponents that would be unwilling to "throw Dr. Ketchum under the bus" if this whole exercise turned out to be a great hoax or something akin to it. More likely what you are witnessing on this thread is simply the fact that many proponents, like myself, are biding our time until the report is published and hoping for some snippets of real information. Issues like the BBB thing, mishandling of PR, opening then shutting the official FB page, etc. are all pretty much smoke screen and side shows and whenever something comes up that is pretty obviously wrong or misleading we say something. We've all learned some things along the way, and the BBB fraud issues (as so well noted in Mulder's post on the previous page) is one of those things. This thread has certainly been educational. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MikeG Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Darrell, I'm not sure your wager is worth anything without some sort of deadline. If I bet my house that it DOES get published, and in 20 years time it still hasn't been, I'll just keep saying "soon"...and keep on living in my house. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Darrell Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 ^ Ok how about by the end of the year? In an actual peer reviewd academic journal. Not some website, or bigfoot/cryptid/paranormal magazine. So what do you have to wager in the $20 range? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MikeG Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 By the time I've subtracted post and packaging from the UK, plus import duties into the USA, anything I bet within that price range would be something as valuable as, ooooooh, I dunno............a pinch of salt, maybe? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cotter Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Darrell, Are you stateside? I'd be willing to wager 1 lb of Wisconsin Aged Cheddar (minimum 5 years). However, before I shake on it, we'll need to pound out timeline (not sure if I want to constrain myself to years' end), and what constitutes a reputable journal (we'd need to make a list). But I'm a betting man, and it'd be kinda fun. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Darrell Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 (edited) ^ Dont want the mods too angry at me for going off the res on this thread, but really any peer reviewd, academic, non paranormal journal would be be ok. And no websites, has to be a print journal. And as far as that is concerned, I think if the study does publish it would be reasonable to expect it to not be in some newstand glossy ghost hunter/paranormal magazine. We all want it to be published in a real journal right? As far as a timeline, go ahead and pick one yourself. If after waiting several years for this study anyone isnt comfortable that it will publish within the next 5 months what makes anybody think it will ever publish? By the time I've subtracted post and packaging from the UK, plus import duties into the USA, anything I bet within that price range would be something as valuable as, ooooooh, I dunno............a pinch of salt, maybe? Mike Sounds like you think my wager is a sure bet on my part! Edited August 8, 2012 by Darrell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 In absence of the published work this thread has largely been a stew of speculation, conjecture, and at times (dare I say) character assassination in advance of the report. While the thread has certainly been at times educational, entertaining, and sometimes aggravating, I'm content to wait until being able to read the actual report with great interest. It's not all bad. This thread is like the old SitCom Taxi - nothing much really happens, but you love it because of the banter between the protagonists... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tontar Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 It's not all bad. This thread is like the old SitCom Taxi - nothing much really happens, but you love it because of the banter between the protagonists... Ah, but do you have proof it is like Taxi? Ahah! I thought not! (just kidding) :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerhunter Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 (edited) I will add that there are members here that know the Ketchum DNA results but are not revealing said results as to not risk hurting chances of publication. I am more than jealous that they have inside information, but kudos to them for being silent on this. I also have stated that I didn't think the project would be successful in publication, but again that is my opinion. Could it be possible that the Ketchum report would eventually merge with the study in Oxford? Edited August 8, 2012 by beerhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BFSleuth Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 I agree that those who honor their NDA's are upright and honorable citizens and should be commended for their silence. Your speculation of a possible merger of the Ketchum and Sykes efforts is interesting. I do think that it is highly likely that some scientists that are peer reviewing for the Ketchum report may very well do so for the Sykes report, and it may be possible that some that are authors of one may peer review on the other. As such I would think there may be "cross pollination" of ideas and methods, it would surprise me if that was not the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Darrell Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Ah yes, the secret inner circle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bipedalist Posted August 8, 2012 BFF Patron Share Posted August 8, 2012 (edited) "IF THE PAPER PUBLISHES"! Pardon me, but I thought you were pretty much of the "WHEN" it publishes opinion. My memory at least...Has something happened to change yr mind? Hope not! GK What he said. ^ Curious language there SY hope there is nothing couched in it by way of fluidity regarding what seemed to be a foregone conclusive publication effort. As to cross-pollination, there is a fine line between it and cross-contamination..... if there is fertile grounds for cross-germination then I wonder why the initial shock in the language of certain PR persons re: "the new kid on the block". This has been puzzling to me, but of course could just be a "smoke-screen" .... If there is "cross-talk", that would be a little different, to some extent expected and if it has occurred I hope it is in a way to fill in some known gap or questions encountered during the publication process to date. *More Conjecture* Edited August 8, 2012 by bipedalist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southernyahoo Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 "IF THE PAPER PUBLISHES"! Pardon me, but I thought you were pretty much of the "WHEN" it publishes opinion. My memory at least...Has something happened to change yr mind? Hope not! GK Nope, nothing has changed my mind, I think there is a paper, I think it is with a journal and I think if it were going to be rejected they would have found fault with the DNA by now. So it is more likely a matter of when to me, but I certainly don't have any control of that. There is always some small chance that something could go wrong, I would guess, so an "if" from me is a small "if" because I'm an optimist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bipedalist Posted August 9, 2012 BFF Patron Share Posted August 9, 2012 Well, that is what I was hoping you meant SY, so I'd imagine things are fairly secure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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