Guest OntarioSquatch Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 It looks like there have been more than 50 pages made in this thread in just 8 days since the 23rd. That's gotta be a new record! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 ^^Image the number of pages once the publication hits the streets. We'll be counting by #pages/hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 ^^^ that is assuming the whole server doesn't crash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BFSleuth Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 I don't know of any sportsmen who have disposable, one time use equipment. .... although I've heard there are some armies in the world that have disposable, one time use equipment.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oonjerah Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Igor Burtsev / Bourtsev: Just a Footer, not a Doctor, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SmokeyMntnHooch Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Igor Burtsev / Bourtsev: Just a Footer, not a Doctor, IMO. Isn't he the one who went to Janice Carter Coy's place on Monster Quest and recreated the deer killing on the decoy? Why exactly should one trust him for anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Yes - SmokeyMntnHooch - one in the same. But, I think you are thinking of a Nat Geo show - from a few years back.. I could be wrong, but I don't remember her and Igor being on Monsterquest. Thank you Bob Zenor - as always your comments are very helpful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 (edited) Matt Moneymaker is clearly upset by the findings and has been speed-tweeting his dismay. One must remember that Dr. Ketchum lured Moneymaker’s sugar daddy away from his organization in order to fund the DNA project. Therefore, we have to take Moneymaker’s claims with a grain of salt. I’m not saying he’s a dishonest guy. I simply saying his judgment may be impaired. Excellent! That makes a great deal of sense actually. MM did right by not drinking the Ketchum Kool Aid and deserves respect as being a professional researcher. If she doesn't produce soon this will be a disaster for the BF community in the public's eye. All the pros like Meldrum have expressed their concern, and she will be drug through the mud if this turns out to be a hoax. Igor Burtsev / Bourtsev: Just a Footer, not a Doctor, IMO. Igor is just a footer? Some of the media is saying scientists, that's more than one. Who is the other scientist? I thought Igor was a doctor. Edited December 2, 2012 by Tim Kota Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 (edited) Tim, I don't think most anyone begrudges MM for not buying into anything just yet. What most dislike, are his public rants, which look like jealous fits of rage. I mean seriously who cares if the Producers for his show were contacted by her? That means nothing about the work she is doing. People from his show contact other researchers in this community all the time - so why shouldn't I think they contacted her? Honestly, she will be drug through the mud until another scientist tries to replicate her work - and vindicates her. She will be accused of all kinds of things until then. Personally, I think she started out with the best of intentions - I just hope she hasn't allowed her judgement to be compromised by some of the people in her inner circle. But, that's just my opinion. Igor has what is called "Candidate of Historical Sciences" (that is how he lists it)- remember he is in Russia. But, this is not a doctorate. He lists this as, "Candidate of Historical Sciences" so, your guess is as good as mine. http://en.wikipedia....ate_of_Sciences The Candidate of Sciences (Russian: кандидат наук - Kandidat Nauk) is a first post-graduate scientific degree in some former Eastern Bloc countries, such as Russia, Belarus and Ukraine, which is awarded for original research that constitutes a significant contribution to a scientific field. The degree was first introduced in the USSR on January 13, 1934, by a decision of theCouncil of People's Commissars of the USSR. According to par.262 International Standard Classification of Education (ISCED) UNESCO 2011, for purposes of international educational statistics Candidate of Sciences is equivalent to PhD as awarded in many English-speaking countries as it allows its holders to reach the level of the Associate Professor (Docent). However, in order to become a full Professor, a Doktor Nauk degree is required, in the same way that the Habilitation is required in Germany, as well as the PhD dissertation and a second book in the United States and the United Kingdom. On the other hand, Immigration New Zealand places both Candidate of Sciences and Doctor of Sciences at "Level 10" (Doctors Level, which is the highest level there).[1] Only holders of master's and specialist's degrees are eligible for Candidate of Sciences programs.[2] In the United States the Candidate of Sciences degree in physics, chemistry, biology, and other natural sciences is recognized as an equivalent of PhD, and holders of this degree awarded in countries of the former Soviet Union and Russian Federation work as postdoctoral fellows in most state and private universities and research establishments of the Federal government. AcAccording to "Guidelines for the recognition of Russian qualifications in the other countries", in countries with a two-tier system of doctoral degrees, the degree of Candidate of Sciencesshould be considered for recognition at the level of the first doctoral degree. In countries with only one doctoral degree, the degree of Candidate of Sciences should be considered for recognition as equivalent to this degree. And then there is this part: A necessary prerequisite is taking courses in philosophy and foreign language, and passing a qualifying examination called "candidate minimum". In the Soviet Union, the candidate minimum included exams in the specialty field of the "dissertant", in a foreign language of his/her choice and in Scientific communism. In post-Soviet Russia and other post-Soviet states, the latter examination was replaced by the one in Philosophy, and in Russia recently in History and philosophy of science; in Ukraine it is still Philosophy. So, I am trying to figure out if he has a degree in Philosophy or Science... I think it's Philosophy - as I have heard others refer to his degree using the word "Philosophy." But, like I said, he is in Russia - so I can't make any definitive statements here.. Edited December 2, 2012 by Melissa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 I'm sure that's true. It just seems the longer they wait the harder it going to be to get a good sample. Based on Justin's comments, he seems pretty confident the flesh he found is the real deal (Bart less so - unless things have changed). I imagine the boots weren't exactly a high priority. My view too. And DNA testing isn't exactly cheap, so why spend more $$$ when you already know the results of your supposedly 'best' evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest slimwitless Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 My view too. And DNA testing isn't exactly cheap, so why spend more $$$ when you already know the results of your supposedly 'best' evidence. That's true under the circumstances. There was a time (see posts by Ginger3 in the Henner Fahrenbach thread) that some in the community were raising questions about the nature of the flesh sample. Meldrum spoke of "red flags". Some declared the hair to look canid...later bear. The situation seems to have changed somewhat. Still, I'm certain there's significant scientific value to testing the DNA of both a father and it's likely child. But yeah, we're not talking Max Planck Institute here...more like "Two Men and a Truck". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 MM did right by not drinking the Ketchum Kool Aid and deserves respect as being a professional researcher. If she doesn't produce soon this will be a disaster for the BF community in the public's eye. All the pros like Meldrum have expressed their concern, and she will be drug through the mud if this turns out to be a hoax. Meldrum has managed to keep his criticism professional. My problem with MM is that it's clearly personal with him. He's accused her of hoaxing and offers no proof. That's a pretty serious accusation levied on someone who makes her living analyzing DNA. If he’s wrong, or worse, lying, he could be responsible for unduly ruining her reputation, especially given the pulpit he occupies. He needs to back away and let the data speak for itself. If asked about it, he’d be better served to just say he’s reserving judgment until the paper’s been published. No one will think less of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Meldrum has managed to keep his criticism professional. My problem with MM is that it's clearly personal with him. He's accused her of hoaxing and offers no proof. That's a pretty serious accusation levied on someone who makes her living analyzing DNA. If he’s wrong, or worse, lying, he could be responsible for unduly ruining her reputation, especially given the pulpit he occupies. He needs to back away and let the data speak for itself. If asked about it, he’d be better served to just say he’s reserving judgment until the paper’s been published. No one will think less of him. MM is not the one with spectacular claim! If it's not a lie then show what you have or this is going down as a hoax. If the data is real then we will attack MM until then he and everyone else should be demanding it to materialize. NOW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bipedalist Posted December 2, 2012 BFF Patron Share Posted December 2, 2012 I was thinking of this exact same thing. Like this Russian doctor is that oblivious to the fact that he was kicking a hornets nest, so to speak, with his recent comments about the study. My guess is also that the news will be broken officially in the next week or two, and that the peer approval is imminent. Yah well some think he was given the stick to play whackabout with the hornet's nest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 MM did right by not drinking the Ketchum Kool Aid and deserves respect as being a professional researcher. Professional researchers don't pull the types of BS that Moneymaker has and continues to pull. If she doesn't produce soon this will be a disaster for the BF community in the public's eye. I'll give you this one. All the pros like Meldrum have expressed their concern, Concern yes, contempt (al la your man Matt) no. and she will be drug through the mud if this turns out to be a hoax. As it should be, but I'll point out that she's already being drug through the mud anyways by your boy Matt among others, nevermind the "mainstream". Igor is just a footer? Some of the media is saying scientists, that's more than one. Who is the other scientist? I thought Igor was a doctor. I've looked and looked online. I can't find any citiations showing he has any sort of doctorate. Tim, I don't think most anyone begrudges MM for not buying into anything just yet. What most dislike, are his public rants, which look like jealous fits of rage. I mean seriously who cares if the Producers for his show were contacted by her? That means nothing about the work she is doing. People from his show contact other researchers in this community all the time - so why shouldn't I think they contacted her? Honestly, she will be drug through the mud until another scientist tries to replicate her work - and vindicates her. She will be accused of all kinds of things until then. Personally, I think she started out with the best of intentions - I just hope she hasn't allowed her judgement to be compromised by some of the people in her inner circle. But, that's just my opinion. Igor has what is called "Candidate of Historical Sciences" (that is how he lists it)- remember he is in Russia. But, this is not a doctorate. He lists this as, "Candidate of Historical Sciences" so, your guess is as good as mine. http://en.wikipedia....ate_of_Sciences So, I am trying to figure out if he has a degree in Philosophy or Science... I think it's Philosophy - as I have heard others refer to his degree using the word "Philosophy." But, like I said, he is in Russia - so I can't make any definitive statements here.. Thanks for the info, Melissa...my Google-fu must be weak today... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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