The Ketchum Report

[Guest]

" There were multiple independent labs involved with samples sent "blind"

You do not know this as a fact Mulder. I will say that I believe that she had multiple labs reproduce her process and get the same results. But how good was her process, her primers.

This I believe will be the source of drama for the entire thing if the paper ever comes out.

What if Sykes or the Sierras Init results show different results? Imagine if one of them showed ape and not human.

Get ready for this possible reality.

[Guest]

^I've maintained for some time that I think she has the goods in the data, but that her interpretation is flawed. I think it likely that the data from Sykes will match up, but his team may draw different conclusions from that data.

That's one reason why I never wanted this paper to go beyond "proof of critter" and avoid all the "what is it" questions. One thing at a time.

[Guest thermalman]

We can jabber on about it all we want, with speculation. But the final play, with no time left, is in Melba's hands. Let's wait for the whistle.

[Rockape]

True Thermal, but meanwhile we need something to do besides look at Cervelo's poopoo pics.

[bipedalist]

Just hope it's not a tipped pass like the GA. Dawgs fans were subjected to in the last ten seconds.

[Guest]

It was either a hoax or one of the greatest discoveries in history. The public is now leaning hard toward the hoax side so she is out of time.

Because the public are mislead by poorly investigated journalism, and people that have personal vendetta's, worrying that their money train will be derailed by the results of her 5 year, per reviewed study, with 13 separate labs that had identical results. The amusing part is that everything about her personal life,how samples were obtained, early press release, witch is totally irreverent, is used as the hammer to drive the negative campaign. Not one person attacked the DNA analysis showing how she could hoax it or why it could not be correct. The conductors of this negative campaign and their behavior, is far more unprofessional than any of Dr.K's actions.

[Guest]

^I've maintained for some time that I think she has the goods in the data, but that her interpretation is flawed. I think it likely that the data from Sykes will match up, but his team may draw different conclusions from that data.

That's one reason why I never wanted this paper to go beyond "proof of critter" and avoid all the "what is it" questions. One thing at a time.

I noticed that they gave a time estimate for the hybridization event but never reported on an age derived from the Y chromosome. I suspect there is a lot more in this report, but that Melba is only reporting on what has already been leaked. The Male chromosome is passed down with limited reshuffling with the rest of the genome, so there should be a way of estimating when our species diverged from theirs.

[Guest]

Deleting post, with apologies to the mods. I replied before I got to the Moderator warning.

Edited December 2, 2012 by Smitty in Florida

[Guest thermalman]

True Thermal, but meanwhile we need something to do besides look at Cervelo's poopoo pics.

LOL. I hear ya!

[bipedalist]

I noticed that they gave a time estimate for the hybridization event but never reported on an age derived from the Y chromosome. I suspect there is a lot more in this report, but that Melba is only reporting on what has already been leaked. The Male chromosome is passed down with limited reshuffling with the rest of the genome, so there should be a way of estimating when our species diverged from theirs.

Yep!

[Guest thermalman]

It was either a hoax or one of the greatest discoveries in history. The public is now leaning hard toward the hoax side so she is out of time.

I think the public would get serious about BF and research if she has what she says.

Rightfully so, the pressure is on Ketchum and let's keep it there until she produces or we all will look like idiots to the general public.

Don't try to turn this around on MM just because he won't drink the Ketchum Kool Aid. She has a huge claim in the public eye with no data to back it up. Press release is not science and MM knows it.

For Ketchum to claim DNA is part human with no information about her findings (or have they been examined by outside experts) she has damaged the BF community. That's why we should be urging her to produce and not trying to twist this onto MM's shoulders.

Wrong, I don't do Kool Aid but I see his point. No paper, no data, no DNA

This is a long, confusing, ridiculous story about how and from whom the samples came. Whom is leaking info to who? Ketchum's encounters with a family of Bigfoot behind every tree? Promises on top of promises? Highly unprofessional the way this played out and now threatens the BF community's chances of ever being accepted by the public!

And what has Matt got in 20 years? Just asking?

[Guest]

With the hope my question is taken simply so to avoid the land mines and tar pits that litter this thread, I will naively ask what does the next step look like? Since the topic and the formal press release have forced the outcome to straddle both the scientific and public arenas, the next steps are unclear to me. So what I'm asking is what happens next (mechanically) in the best and worse case scenarios?

If the best case is the paper is published in a unquestionably reputable journal and there is evidence (video, pics, flesh,etc) to review and share, how is that made known to the science community and public? Hold a press conference?

If the worse case is no paper and no evidence, how does the BF community recover and make positive progress for the future? Initiate a similar but new project?

[bipedalist]

Well, embargoed paper or monograph? Continental US journal or foreign journal? Press release, if planful or even a slip up must have been based on foreknowledge indicating something was imminent or it was just a ploy for more time on the stage until something known could be released about publication.

I early on said I'd be content with a monograph, and that is where I think this is headed, minimally; until told otherwise. Are there annual journals/monographs with thematic content or pay to play ones that might fit the bill?

Edited December 2, 2012 by bipedalist

[Rockape]

I'd say if the test results stand up, everything else will take care of itself.

If they don't, we'll all move on from this and the search will continue.

[Guest BFSleuth]

Best case scenario is that the paper is published within a few weeks (per Ketchum's recent statements after her press release), show unique DNA that backs up the claims in her press release, and the scientific community has the data to begin analysis and further review with an eye toward other efforts to try to replicate her findings. It may be in this scenario that they are able to replicate her work, or it may be they find variances to either correct her work or may find that there are fundamental flaws that need to revise her findings.

Worst case scenario is that there is no paper, no data, etc. and this has all been a hoax and charade.

Of the two scenarios I think there is little likelihood there is any credence to the second (lack of paper) option. There are far too many forum members with samples submitted and ongoing discussions with Dr. Ketchum, with information about the process, for there to be absolutely nothing at all to her study. There are those that have expressed concern about her methods or preconclusions, but I think ultimately there is something to her efforts and that will be discussed in the scientific community after publication (in whatever venue it comes out).