The Ketchum Report

[TimB]

Why are we discussing the Huggins report in the Ketchum Report thread? They are two separate reports?

Tim B.

[Guest]

Tyler, what evidence do you proffer that Ketchum has made that claim? I see your Footenote #5, but I see no evidence that she did claim that Smeja's sample tested positive for her unknown. I see you claiming that she did, but you offer no citations to back that claim up.

Edited December 26, 2012 by Mulder

[Guest]

To Tyler, Excellent contribution BTW and thank you.

Edited December 26, 2012 by apehuman

[Guest]

K - I didn't see it. Now I do.. Removed double post.

Edited December 26, 2012 by Melissa

[Guest]

Why are we discussing the Huggins report in the Ketchum Report thread? They are two separate reports?

Tim B.

Huggins tested another sample claimed to be from the Smeja "steak" and the results are said to have come out bear. Huggins claims that Ketchum says that her Smeja sample tested out presumptive for her unknown hominid/primate.

[Guest reelback]

While I dont doubt your footnote, can you substantiate this claim you say she made?

5 Melba Ketchum claims that the tissue recovered and submitted to her by Justin Smeja is from a Sasquatch and that this animal is in fact genetically “human†in almost every sense of the word. Our labs achieved species identification for only the samples that Smeja submitted to our team. While Smeja claims (and has confirmed under a polygraph) that the samples he provided to Melba Ketchum are the same as the samples he provided to us, Ketchum disputes this and asserts that her samples are visually distinct from ours. The Ketchum team has expressed concern about our results and their subsequent release. In an effort to avoid any confusion for the general public, the scientific community and/or the “Bigfoot/Sasquatch communityâ€, I complied with requests to consider any sort of alleged contrary evidence from the Ketchum camp that could cast doubt on the results of our labs, prior to releasing our data. After weeks of opportunity and requests, Ketchum has provided no such evidence (outside of personal assurances), nor any corroborating statements from any other scientific source allegedly involved in her study.

[Guest thermalman]

Tyler, what evidence do you proffer that Ketchum has made that claim? I see your Footenote #5, but I see no evidence that she did claim that Smeja's sample tested positive for her unknown. I see you claiming that she did, but you offer no citations to back that claim up.

Agreed.

[Guest GoLd]

I would like to hear Derek Randles take on this new development.

He had claimed early on to know the results of Ketchums testing on the Smeja sample, but due to the NDA was unable to confirm or deny anything, all the while strongly hinting at the sample being genuine.

GoLdD

[Guest Tyler H]

Hi Folks

I wholeheartedly agree that this topic is not directly related to the Ketchum camp efforts.

As such, I started a new thread. http://bigfootforums.com/index.php?/topic/35627-release-of-forensic-dna-results-for-sierra-kills-sample/

I will answer this last question here:

Melba has asserted to many people, including myself, that the sample from Justin is one of the center-pieces of her work.

It's no secret, and I don't think she will deny that. She does however claim that her samples are different than the samples that I worked with.

I don't want to get into any mud-slinging, but will try to answer questions to the best of my ability, fairly at the new thread and also at the bfro forum

[Guest]

It's hard to imagine humans being able to produce viable offspring with hominins as far distant as H. erectus or H. habilis, much less the Paranthropuses, but assuming that were possible it would solve several problems. The Paranthropuses are the most human-like hominins to retain sagittal crests and Paranthropus robustus had the largest of any hominin. In the thread I started for witnesses to pick which hominins had faces most similar to BF, they're overwhelmingly choosing the earlier bipedal apes over later Homo species.

It's just hard to imagine we could have produced viable offspring with a "cousin" that diverged 2M BP.

The LCA of horses and donkeys goes back over 5 million years ago, yet they can produce mules. And pretty much the only reason mules are "mules" and can't usually have foals is that donkeys and horses have their genes sorted on a different number of chromosomes. If their chromosome number was the same (and all of the genes were on the right chromosome) it stands to reason you would get a reproductively viable hybrid. I think Mulder mentioned Tigons and Ligors (sp?) being reproductively viable.

I know >2 million years for a LCA is stretching it (at least four times as great as for a Neandertal/Human LCA), but it is still plausible for a successful hybridization because of the known examples. For all we know, hominin chromosome number may have been stable since our split from the chimps so there may have been any and all sorts of successful hybridization among hominins with LCA's as old as 6 million years.

Even a modern human/chimp hybrid is still considered possible, though, because chromosome number is different, the offspring would be "mules," just like the horse x donkey.

Yeah, I've always had a soft spot for Paranthropus as a possible ancestor for Sasquatch. A pre-tool making hominin with big honkin' jaws and sagittal crest. Small size isn't much of an issue in my book. That can change pretty easily. If I recall, Grover Krantz was a fan of the idea. Unfortunately, it's a long ways between Africa and Alaska with no fossils inbetween. But, you never know. They're finding new and unexpected hominin fossils in out of the way places fairly often now.

[Guest]

Here you go.

http://www.thenakeds.../interview/833/

A near human ancester over 7 feet tall. I'm surprised nobody has picked up on this. It's not the norm for H. heidelbergensis (most seem to have been our height or a little shorter), but it does show that height can change fairly rapidly within a species due to various reasons. Modern pygmies would be another example.

I did bring it up back on page 398. LOL.

Before going wild over Justin's report, I believe some pertinent question's need asked and answered. Where is his paperwork for this sample

leaving the state of California??? Bear parts are highly regulated, did he have a current bear tag at the time this sample was collected??? IIRC you are to report bear carcasses ''found'' an prohibited from removing any parts of it, until a game warden is on site an may, or may not give permission.

Point of fact as well Justin released his sample to Dr.Ketchum and she is under no obligation to release it to any other lab. In fact as with any sample, no other person would in any type of study that has not been completed via review. That is SOP in cases of pending studies. So whipping up the drama of ''she wouldn't cooperate'' is a massive false flag.

Since Justin is sticking to his ''shovel story'' in collection, it's not taken from the alleged BF body, it was a piece of whatever, picked up from where ever and shipped off to temple for identification. Yawn. I'd be looking at the probable illegalities of what Justin's engaged in an not worry so much about a hunk of whatever's test results.

[Guest]

Without law in place to protect the species, how can you be in court about it? This is really far fetched.

Are you suggesting this is more likely than it was just a hoax?

I dont think its confusing at all. None of it makes sense because its 99% certainly a lie.

I only mean IF its true on Melba's results and IF it is described as Homo = Homocide and only just a suggested scenario by me not anything I truly belief as all of it seems to smell of hogwash just throwing it out there for the person involved COULD be worrying about it. For one, how can anyone following this accept that ANY aledged sample from the ALEDGED kill site of an ALLEDGED incident be spoken of as fact coming ALEDGEDLY from a remaining carcass the same animal killed at a prior time. If the sample was not taken at the actual time of the ALEDGED kill then any sample found much later cannot be confirmed to be from that kill right? It's all just talk from the beginning till now at every level. Chance of lies involved at some point at least 99%

[Guest reelback]

I only mean IF its true on Melba's results and IF it is described as Homo = Homocide and only just a suggested scenario by me not anything I truly belief as all of it seems to smell of hogwash just throwing it out there for the person involved COULD be worrying about it. For one, how can anyone following this accept that ANY aledged sample from the ALEDGED kill site of an ALLEDGED incident be spoken of as fact coming ALEDGEDLY from a remaining carcass the same animal killed at a prior time. If the sample was not taken at the actual time of the ALEDGED kill then any sample found much later cannot be confirmed to be from that kill right? It's all just talk from the beginning till now at every level. Chance of lies involved at some point at least 99%

I'd add 1%. This is all BS.

[Guest VioletX]

IMHO we are being premature to conclude anything until all of the parties have entered into the discussion. I am still trying to explore what exactly this news means, but reflecting back on the tone of Dr. K's interview on C2C, I don't think the boat is sinking by any means.

[Guest thermalman]

Agreed Vx.....+1. Nothing but gossip abound.