Sierra Shooting from A-Z

[Guest]

Gurumuka I don't understand the "too good to be true" part of your post, are you implying that he was following the "I'm going to get rich off of Bigfoot" ideology? If so that makes zero sense, why would he not have collected a body if that were the case?

Obviously several people will be upset that this shooting happened, But the fact is it has happened, that is something that cannot be changed, But maybe we can learn something from it, or learn something about these animals, or maybe even have their existance proven so they can be protected and hunters and other people in the wilderness can be educated on these animals so that the chances of a misidentified shooting doesn't occur in the future.

Edited August 5, 2011 by adam777

[Guest]

Why can't we ask General about the particulars of what happened and not why it happened? This is not an inquisition. It would be great to get some details, before DF and General are run off again, by those with high emotions.

"Why take the first shot?"

The comment was even made- (by General)

"Till you see a monster and decide not to shoot or to shoot then I just don't think I can describe or put into words my feelings or emotions in a way that would make sense to you."

The question as asked is completely within rules and guidelines...

If General doesnt want to answer it , then that's up to him...

Many of us, including me- think that's an extremely relevant question, and one that should be asked...

ART

[Guest General]

The first shot. Man is that a loaded question. I've been dreading having to answer this one. Some trees covered a meadow like a blind corner we went further and the meadow started to open up visaully. we saw movement about the same time we were both thinking holy ?*#!ing /?#* a white #*!#/!? bear???? By white I mean the color of a pale coyote we have a wide variety of color phase bears so white/ lighter color wasn't out of the question in our minds. Probably less then a second has passed it was on my side. I looked at it for less then half a second then focused on getting to my rifle and chambering a round. I basically just saw a hint of movement that obviously wasn't human cause it was so hairy so it must be a bear. Then focused on grabbing my gun and took my eyes off it and focused on getting into position. I'm starting to raise my gun then just before the scope got to my face looking up into the meadow. Ill try to walk you through what went on in my head as best as I remember. My mind was goin 200 mph. As I'm about to see through my scope I look into the meadow. It was then I started to say wtf in my head. I'm thinking wtf its on two legs and its walking, (honestly who believes in bigfoot anyways. that's just crazy)I had never seen a picture of bigfoot hell I didn't know anyone thought this was real, I had heard the name from a movie I watched when I was a kid but I don't remember much of that at all. So its now been 3 or 4 seconds its walking towards me with its hands above its head, I'm still thinking this is the weirdest bear in the world. Its got white hair its 600lbs huuuge, tall not muscler and it walks on two legs I wonder what it will taste like then it took 4 or 6 more steps further and Idk. I said to myself this thing is a ******* monster monster or monster bear really doesn't matter wtf it needs to die cause that's what you do to monsters you shoot them or it must just be a weird bear cause that's the only animals out here. right? I'm finally gonna kill my bear or uhm I'm now squeezing on this f'up mangy white monster bear. my buddy instead of grabbing his rifle this whole time is pretty much stunned he grabs the binocs and just watches. He says don't shoot not a bear a few times in a few ways. Somewhere around that time the gun went off

[Guest]

Only part i found odd, was your thinking " I wonder what it will taste like"

Lol... i mean im a hunter myself, but i never wondered what a monster would taste like....

thats all ive got.

Art

[Guest Thepattywagon]

I asked this question early on in a roundabout fashion. I've come to the conclusion that, visibility, distance, disposition of creature(s) aside, it just happened. The General pulled the trigger, and he may never have an answer as to why he did.

Reading that there is a book in the works, I don't expect that much more info will be forthcoming here. But I'm patient and understand that we may have to wait for details.

Meanwhile, General is in the awkward position of engaging us here, and being asked questions about something he may not be particularly proud of. I hope he sticks around and shares as much as he possibly can. If true, it must have been a completely surreal experience.

Hopefully, this incident will lead to total Federal protection for these creatures.

Just saw General's latest post above since I posted this one. Thanks for putting that info up here, General.

Edited August 5, 2011 by Thepattywagon

[Guest slimwitless]

The first shot. Man is that a loaded question. I've been dreading having to answer this one. Some trees covered a meadow like a blind corner we went further and the meadow started to open up visaully. we saw movement about the same time we were both thinking holy ?*#!ing /?#* a white #*!#/!? bear???? By white I mean the color of a pale coyote we have a wide variety of color phase bears so white/ lighter color wasn't out of the question in our minds. Probably less then a second has passed it was on my side. I looked at it for less then half a second then focused on getting to my rifle and chambering a round. I basically just saw a hint of movement that obviously wasn't human cause it was so hairy so it must be a bear. Then focused on grabbing my gun and took my eyes off it and focused on getting into position. I'm starting to raise my gun then just before the scope got to my face looking up into the meadow. Ill try to walk you through what went on in my head as best as I remember. My mind was goin 200 mph. As I'm about to see through my scope I look into the meadow. It was then I started to say wtf in my head. I'm thinking wtf its on two legs and its walking, (honestly who believes in bigfoot anyways. that's just crazy)I had never seen a picture of bigfoot hell I didn't know anyone thought this was real, I had heard the name from a movie I watched when I was a kid but I don't remember much of that at all. So its now been 3 or 4 seconds its walking towards me with its hands above its head, I'm still thinking this is the weirdest bear in the world. Its got white hair its 600lbs huuuge, tall not muscler and it walks on two legs I wonder what it will taste like then it took 4 or 6 more steps further and Idk. I said to myself this thing is a ******* monster monster or monster bear really doesn't matter wtf it needs to die cause that's what you do to monsters you shoot them or it must just be a weird bear cause that's the only animals out here. right? I'm finally gonna kill my bear or uhm I'm now squeezing on this f'up mangy white monster bear. my buddy instead of grabbing his rifle this whole time is pretty much stunned he grabs the binocs and just watches. He says don't shoot not a bear a few times in a few ways. Somewhere around that time the gun went off

Incredible. I don't know what else to say. Thanks for answering.

[Guest]

My understanding of this story is coming from piecing the stories together along with common knowledge of human responses to terror and stress.

Two hunters come across something that they do not expect to see,and may not have believed existed, thus they were terrified seeing a huge scary creature and then shot in self defense *before* they (the hunters) could be attacked by the adult BF. A Preemptive strike if you will.

Human instinct is fight or flight, and since I was not there I don't know if they would have been able to escape easily, but whatever they were still flooded with adrenalin causing acute senses and hype-awareness along with the tension and fear.

Instead of shooting into the sky and running, the hunter shot and killed a possible 500- 800 pound creature that he must have been frightened of.

I Think of Patty being angry.

Then 2 other smaller/younger BF shows up and one is killed, while another young BF escapes.

Was the smaller BF threatening the shooter, or did he fire just instinctively due to fear for his life along with the adrenalin surge causing heightened awareness and fear/stress?

Also, Monkey's, especially chimps, can tear up and kill a human easily, so I can imagine what a Juvenal BF could/can do to a human.

If they were large (say the size of a 6-8 year old)

I can understand his continued fear and hyper- awareness due to the still active adrenalin overload, and he would either run/fight/kill any perceived threat.

In this situation he killed,and thankfully one BF escaped.

Do we know if the grown up mother BF was approaching the shooter to defend her hidden but close by children?

Was the adult BF threatening the shooter? That alone could/would put the shooter in fear for his life, and thus the adult BF was shot and killed. Did he shoot into the air, or go straight to the kill?

Did the younger ones approach the shooter? How large were they? Did he feel threatened by the young ones, or was he just killing them for sport?

Were these young BF toddlers, or more like a human 10-12 year old?

Have any of you read or heard about how much damage a chimp can do to a human?

Chimps can easily take down a human and easily blind and maim any size human. Chimps are wicked strong and *have* turned on their owners with horrific results.

Hunters have been known to be so amazed by a creature that they were hunting for they (Hunter) actually forget to shoot it.(This is from hubby who must have had this happen to him or someone he knows)

I'm truly just trying to make sense of this heartbreaking event and trying to understand it.

I pray that the remaining young BF is able to meet it's own needs, and did not die of starvation.

This entire situation is a disaster and heart-breaking to boot.

I hope that I have explained this stress/adrenalin induced behavior well enough, please do feel free to PM me if more needs to be discussed.

I hope that something I've written helps someone.

Hugs to you..Sweetsusiq

Edited August 5, 2011 by SweetSusiq

[Guest Strick]

I said to myself this thing is a ******* monster monster or monster bear really doesn't matter wtf it needs to die cause that's what you do to monsters you shoot them or it must just be a weird bear cause that's the only animals out here. right?

This seems a very honest response to a close-range encounter with a Sasquatch, in my opinion. We have all seen the monster movies on TV. We've all screamed at the TV, or at least in our heads, "Kill it!" each time the creature hoves into view. We have been conditioned all our lives to think in this way.

For me, the "I just couldn't pull the trigger, it looked too human" defence, that we hear all the time never rang true. After all, you never saw Van Helsing take one look at Count Dracula laying in his coffin and say: "You know, these vampires really do look just a regular guy in most ways, so I think I'll hold off with the staking". Nah! Not gonna happen.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's regrettable that two of these creatures had to die under these circumstances (if indeed the story is true) but I can totally understand the rationale. And I'm real glad that General never bought into all this 'murder rap' BS, that some like to chuck around.

[Guest]

Thanks Susie- I think we are all pretty much clear on how that works in stressful situations. If you will review the thread, I think you will see where the General has tried to express how he felt during this unfortunate incident. No need to keep belaboring the point.

Now moving on, I am looking forward to seeing the pictures you post, General, since you will be one of the few people on earth that we know about that has had close and extended contact with these creatures, whatever they turn out to be.

Edited August 5, 2011 by Jodie
edited for poor choice of words

[Guest]

I looked at it for less then half a second then focused on getting to my rifle and chambering a round. I basically just saw a hint of movement that obviously wasn't human cause it was so hairy so it must be a bear.

You're kidding right? You are an experienced hunter and you see a hint of movement, for less than half a second, it was hairy; so it must be a bear? Whatever happened to positively identifying your target first before engaging it?

I'm about to see through my scope I look into the meadow. It was then I started to say wtf in my head. I'm thinking wtf its on two legs s walking

So you had reasonable doubt about what you were seeing, after all it was walking on two legs and as an experienced bear hunter you were thinking that this type of behaviour is unusual?

So its now been 3 or 4 seconds its walking towards me with its hands above its head, I'm still thinking this is the weirdest bear in the world

Again, you are not sure that this is actually a bear. It has its hands above its head, walking towards you on two feet? Hands above its head suggests that it was surrendering, giving up, trying to indicate that it meant no harm. Maybe even trying to communicate with you as one sentient being to another. How many times have you seen a bear walk with its hands above its head - I would argue that its arms are not even long enough for it to get its paws above its head.

I said to myself this thing is a ******* monster monster or monster bear really doesn't matter wtf it needs to die cause that's what you do to monsters you shoot them or it must just be a weird bear cause that's the only animals out here. right?

Don't know what it is but I am going to shoot it anyway! Why in your mind did it need to die? After all it was walking towards you, on two legs, with it hands in the air above its head. For arguments sake, the act of a sentient being exhibiting an act of submission, attempting to communicate that it was not a threat to you.

my buddy instead of grabbing his rifle this whole time is pretty much stunned he grabs the binocs and just watches. He says don't shoot not a bear a few times in a few ways.

Your buddy was spotting for you? He grabs the bino's, watches and says don't shoot. To me this is the most damning of all. You have your buddy with you and he is telling you it is not a bear (which by your own admission you were having doubts about as well). He tells you not to shoot a number of times in a number of ways....... yet you pulled the trigger without positively identifying your quarry. Time for you to attend one of your brothers DFG hunter safety courses; as a refresher.

I still don't understand why you pulled the trigger. Everything that you have posted so far points to your own reasonable doubt that it was a bear. Additionally, the language that you use to describe the incident (walking on two legs, hands, some kind of language that sounded like a deaf person trying to speak etc.) also adds to the fact that it was not a bear.

I have a theory - you knew pretty quickly exactly what you were looking at. Your buddy tells you it is not a bear (you already know this) and tells you not to shoot - but you have made your mind up (your chance at 15 minutes of fame) and you pull the trigger. The rest is history (history according to you) and now you are having trouble reconciling what you did and why you did it because; after all, it was not a BEAR!!!

Some advice, and I mean it with true sincerity. Having been involved in some stuff in my life; the only way to get through this is to seek help. There are lots of programs out there to help people; the hardest thing for most of us is to admit that we need help! So if this story is truly legit and you are truly suffering from some sort of after effects (a type of PTSD); do yourself a favour and ask for assistance. If you don't; it will eat you up!!

Edited August 5, 2011 by Jodie
edited for compliance with rules

[Guest]

Not to sound snarky, but why would General, who is the shooter and in control of the situation, need an NDA? So by implication, is General no longer in charge of his own kill, and evidence?

[Guest]

I would be interested in the NDA situation, I had asked that question before but never got an answer. Why would the General need an NDA for his own experience? I can see having an NDA regarding the DNA analysis results for the piece of flesh contributed but I'm not clear about why you would need one to prevent discussing the incident.

[Guest]

You're kidding right? You are an experienced hunter and you see a hint of movement, for less than half a second, it was hairy; so it must be a bear? Whatever happened to positively identifying your target first before engaging it?

So you had reasonable doubt about what you were seeing, after all it was walking on two legs and as an experienced bear hunter you were thinking that this type of behaviour is unusual?

Again, you are not sure that this is actually a bear. It has its hands above its head, walking towards you on two feet? Hands above its head suggests that it was surrendering, giving up, trying to indicate that it meant no harm. Maybe even trying to communicate with you as one sentient being to another. How many times have you seen a bear walk with its hands above its head - I would argue that its arms are not even long enough for it to get its paws above its head.

Don't know what it is but I am going to shoot it anyway! Why in your mind did it need to die? After all it was walking towards you, on two legs, with it hands in the air above its head. For arguments sake, the act of a sentient being exhibiting an act of submission, attempting to communicate that it was not a threat to you.

Your buddy was spotting for you? He grabs the bino's, watches and says don't shoot. To me this is the most damning of all. You have your buddy with you and he is telling you it is not a bear (which by your own admission you were having doubts about as well). He tells you not to shoot a number of times in a number of ways....... yet you pulled the trigger without positively identifying your quarry. Time for you to attend one of your brothers DFG hunter safety courses; as a refresher.

I still don't understand why you pulled the trigger. Everything that you have posted so far points to your own reasonable doubt that it was a bear. Additionally, the language that you use to describe the incident (walking on two legs, hands, some kind of language that sounded like a deaf person trying to speak etc.) also adds to the fact that it was not a bear.

I have a theory - you knew pretty quickly exactly what you were looking at. Your buddy tells you it is not a bear (you already know this) and tells you not to shoot - but you have made your mind up (your chance at 15 minutes of fame) and you pull the trigger. The rest is history (history according to you) and now you are having trouble reconciling what you did and why you did it because; after all, it was not a BEAR!!!

Some advice, and I mean it with true sincerity. Having been involved in some stuff in my life; the only way to get through this is to seek help. There are lots of programs out there to help people; the hardest thing for most of us is to admit that we need help! So if this story is truly legit and you are truly suffering from some sort of after effects (a type of PTSD); do yourself a favour and ask for assistance. If you don't; it will eat you up!!

I respectfully disagree.

Edited August 5, 2011 by Jodie

[Guest]

Actually you have broken the rules, you are attacking Gurumuka when he was simply expressing an opinion of the situation and asked questions. If the General or Derek do not want to address it, that will be their decision.

I think we all have our own ideas of how we would have responded in the same situation. Personally, I would have thrown the truck in reverse, turned it around, or whatever I needed to do to get myself off the mountain ASAP. If the bigfoot were closer, and I didn't think I could turn around, I would have shot it, then tried to run over it if it kept coming, since I can't necessarily assume what a sasquatch means when it throws it's hands up in the air. For all we know, it could have been a signal for the bigfoot army to descend.

Edited to say- Thank you Nice Guy for editing your post to meet the guidelines. I removed the other comment from Gurumaka's copied post to also fall within compliance.

Edited August 5, 2011 by Jodie
explanation for edits

[Guest]

G'day NiceGuyJon;

You're right I was being judgemental and I don't apologise for that because this is my take on things after everything that I have read. It is important to remember that this is only my opinion and that's what these threads are for - people's opinions.

I was not trying to be snarky and know-it-all and after re-reading what I wrote I may have come across that way and this was not my intent. I was trying to highlight the systemic breakdowns that occurred (using General's own account) that ultimately may have cost the lives of two beings that, by his own account; were not bears.

As for giving the guy a break - I was being truly sincere with my advice at the end of my post. I know, first hand; what happens when confronted with a situation that invokes sheer terror (no monsters involved, well not the type that we are talking about here anyway) and how I reacted. I also intimately understand the effects of not appropriately dealing with the aftermaths (I'm a man afterall, I don't need any help - yeah right!!!) in a timely manner; and the resultant diagnosis of PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder) years later.

I am not offended in the least by your reply to my post. I am glad that you took the time to read it and reply.

BTW who's head have you pasted on Patty?