Sierra Shooting from A-Z

[Guest BFSleuth]

... ah, the Maury show...

Yes, the story Justin tells has some stretches to it. While the events seem plausible (the shooting of the big one and behavior of the small ones) the parts that stretch thin for me are the thinking of Justin and his motivations. However, from personal experience doing stupid things and reading other accounts of people doing stupid things (that you can read everyday in news stories), I can certainly comprehend how one thing led to another in the circumstances and how the entire incident played out. Certainly we all have been in circumstances where looking back we would have done things differently, and Justin has noted this in his case. I give him the benefit of the doubt in this regard, and based on confirmation from Derek and the follow up investigation I conclude that he is being truthful or so largely truthful that anything that he may have selected to hide is likely immaterial.

The next level of confirmation will of course be with any DNA results, and I hope that comes sooner than later.

[Guest dxm2]

Ironically, both Polygraph and DNA tests are, or have been, associated with both Mauri and Bigfoot.

Although I doubt genetics/DNA testing will become as dubious as polygragh testing.

[AaronD]

I just read the questions of the polygraph Justin supposedly took. The way a few of them are worded he could have slipped some deceit in there without getting snagged.

Q # 8 "Is the entire "sierra kills" story a hoax? He answered NO, well if even a part of the story is true like he really was in the woods that day, or with his buddy, etc then the entire story is not a hoax...shoot or no shoot

Plus, didn't he say in a former interview that it looked like a man in a monkey suit but that he was going to shoot it anyways? And isn't this a sign of a psychotic personality? And don't psychotics have an uncanny ability to pass poly's? Just some speculation, not stated as fact.....

[Guest]

^ When he said he was going to shoot the guy in the suit I think he was joking. he said somthing like - anyone stupid enough to dress up as a bear during bear hunting season deserves to get shot. He felt like shooting this person just for being an idiot. You know how guys talk over a few beers. We say things to make our friends laugh but we dont mean it.

[Guest poignant]

I'm surprised they didn't ask the million-dollar question: "Did you take the body of the juvenile back with you?"

[Guest Strick]

Nakani, I'm not so sure. Justin has been roasted many times on this very issue, not least here on this very forum. He's not stupid and knows very well his take on this aspect of the case is contentious. I think he knows exactly what he's saying.

As I mentioned, the fact he sticks to the claim that he shot the creature even though he thought it looked like a guy in a suit speaks to the authenticity of his claim. When Ro calls him on it he looks sheepish but does not back down - that's a hard one to act convincingly.

[AaronD]

Ok, so he only said something about shooting a guy in a monkey suit after the fact and with a few beers in his rear view mirror? Ok, I like that story better, so I'll stick with it until I know better I guess.....It's just that something about the whole thing is unsettling, for me anyhow. Something about it is amiss, just can't put a finger on it.....anyone else feel this way?

I'm surprised they didn't ask the million-dollar question: "Did you take the body of the juvenile back with you?"

I think the questions were carefully picked to not be too revealing; like, here's a polygraph...he passed 100%...so chew on this tid bit and don't worry about where the body is or if Justin has it or what it was determined to be.....JMHO

[Guest]

Strick, There was probably a nagging feeling it could be a man in a suit and he shot anyway. I dont think he wanted to shoot a man in a suit though.

Poignant, mabee they couldnt ask that question because of the NDA preventing his answer. The absence of certain questions could speak volumes, it would be interesting to find out of there were any restrictions put on the tester.

[Guest BartloJays]

Actually AaronD, although the polygraph examiner didn't use all my questions (she/he used about 60% of them at his/her discretion) I tried very hard, with limited notice & time, mind you, to bury him and trip him up, "if," he was attempting to be deceitful with his responses. With me formulating the questions there's going to be an understandable "perception" of bias since I've intimately investigated the case (understatement) for over a year and not ashamed to say I've become good friend's with Justin & the driver through that process (thanks to his/their 100% cooperation with me and our shared interests outside bigfooting). The tradeoff, on the positive side, is I've got the most internal knowledge to accurately probe him and am qualified with my educational background in Criminology/Law Enforcement.

Friends or no friends, I have a responsibility to everybody, including myself and especially Justin, to give him the best I got and I treated him as if I was an opposing attorney trying to bury him on the stand. A matter of fact, when I got the call that he passed, Ro said laughingly, "dude," the examiner (not knowing full story yet) read the questions and asked "uhmm, is this guy is supposed to be his friend? I can't use some of these?" probably because many were loaded.

The only discussion and or advice about the test I'd given Justin prior to him being abruptly confronted with it after thinking it was indefinitely postponed, was a few days prior when I told him "if you're really going to do this and I'm writing questions, you know it's not going to be easy, and to "listen" carefully to the question being asked by whomever is administering it." He said "I'm ready, and have nothing to hide and you know I want to do this."

I completed the questions the night prior at my sister-in-law's house where I was having dinner (thinking I had a few days of cushion to make changes) and sent them to Ro via email. Ro was apparently already interviewing the driver (whom I've spent countless time with as well) and had several of the Tazer gang & Justin with him at a Sacramento residence when he received them.

FYI, many of my questions were left out as I mentioned due to the discretion of the administrator of the exam and asking if he took the juvenile's body was not one of them because I didn't want to waste a question on a completely asinine (in my opinion) question that began as a baseless internet rumor.

I admittedly didn't really want Justin to take the test for several reasons, not one of which was me at all being concerned about him passing. My main concern was that he can't win for losing and there's nothing to gain in the interim while the potentially definitive evidence is being processed. I mean, he passes easily and you'll have persons making unqualified but definitive statements challenging the science of polygraphs (sound familiar), he fails, and not even the staunchest backer of his would contend there was possibly a "false negative." To be honest, I was confident he'd pass (I really "believe" they are both telling the truth, but don't "know" they are), but I didn't expect him to knock it out of the park and pass 100% the right way..."trembling." I have a very good understanding of polygraphs as they are not foolproof and are mainly used by law enforcement as a psychological tool to elicit confessions. However, on the same token I don't believe that they are easy to pass with a qualified examiner if you merely "believe" (lot harder in reality then on paper) your story and have no opportunity to practice.

Furthermore, I believe Justin "believes" that they work better then some of you do and although he's much smarter then many give him credit for, I honestly don't believe he's the type of person who can walk in nervous and unexpectedly be presented with it and hit it out of the park as the final report suggests.

At the end of the day though, I look at the test for what it is, a potentially nice companion piece and antiquity, if you will, that I hope will inevitably go along with convincing DNA results from either or both of our team (myself, Tyler H & Justin) having both "circumstantial" (tissue sample) and "non-circumstantial" (boots) evidence tested independently with two NA labs currently, and or Melba Ketchum's study with respect to the "circumstantial" (tissue) evidence she's possessed since a short time after the purported shooting. BTW, with respect to the anticipated final determinations (don't appear being real close to being finished on our end), the only promise I'll make to anybody is providing 110% transparency (official lab reports, all emails communications etc...) "regardless" of what is determined. That's the best we can do and what we set out to do.

[AaronD]

The article I read wouldn't give out the examiner's name but it did say "she" was a Sacramento resident, had 10 years of experience, a degree in criminal justice, is a member of PEOA (Polygraph Examiners Of America) and CAPE (California Association of Polygraph Examiners). So why not just say the frikkin name?!?! Oh, such is the way of these people......sigh!

FYI, many of my questions were left out as I mentioned due to the discretion of the administrator of the exam and asking if he took the juvenile's body was not one of them because I didn't want to waste a question on a completely asinine (in my opinion) question that began as a baseless internet rumor.

Well please remember that for some of us we hash over possibilities as we don't have first hand access to information, so something that may well be a baseless internet rumor would seem like a viable possibility.

[Guest BartloJays]

Aaron that's at Ro's discretion since he initiated it the polygraph, but I believe it may be that, please don't quote me on this, she doesn't get inundated with request for interviews or contacted by bigfooters right now. I'm not certain what arrangement he made with her as she may've been tentative about her name being released with respect to the subject matter, which is understandable. It was my understanding that she had no idea about what subject she was questioning Justin on until she arrived as is normal. She was then briefed, presented with my questions etc.. and who could blame her if she was a bit tentative after the test. I'm sure if she's married or has a significant other they had an interesting dinner conversation when the proverbial phrase "honey, how was your day?" was asked....especially because she was apparently impressed by Justin.

I do think however that Ro plans on releasing her name, I just have no idea when.

[Guest]

Well that answers that. Good posts Bartlojays.

[AaronD]

I'm not allowed to talk about BF at all at the dinner table cuz the wife doesn't believe in it......of course she does believe in reincarnation but when it comes to doing something she likes she says "you only live once" go figure....

But thanks for your attention to us in this manner, Bart!

[Guest]

Bart

When did the independent lab receive the sample Justin sent ?

When does he expect the results ?

And when does he plan to release them ?

Thanks

[Guest BartloJays]

notlikely-

The independent labs have not had the samples for a lengthy period of time at all unfortunately. Forgive me for not being specific on time as I'm not going to discuss time periods, current findings etc... what I will tell you is this, when we do get final determinations you will have every answer your looking for as there will be 100% transparency with respect to everything from official lab reports to "all" email communication between Tyler Huggins, myself and the lab directors from day one of first contact and you can expect some type of brief summary of facts to go with it absent of any opinion or conjecture with respect to who we are presenting (bigfooters). I don't know what media format we'll decide on to present but i assure you, it will be open and free.

I hope I'm wrong, but the reason I don't anticipate too soon is processing on the boots has not begun yet (will make sense why down the road in sequence) and I realistically anticipate several issues the lab will have to contend with, with respect to potential mold degradation, environmental factors, contamination etc.. especially since they were worn several times after the purported shooting event. Sorry for the cup half empty expectations (I hope I'm dead wrong) but the last thing I want people to get is a false sense of hope on anything relating to physical evidence. I just believe we have to put this in proper perspective, follow appropriate protocol to a tee and then let the chips fall where they may. No guarantees. I do assure anybody though that I've stored the boots appropriately since the second they reached my custody.

A lot of people don't make these distinctions, but I feel it's important as I've always been realistic about the evidence as the non-cirumstantial evidence (boots) have always had the potential issues I just mentioned and the "circumstantial" evidence (retrieved tissue) to be in state of recognition claimed by witnesses when retrieved, logically had to have been predated on post-mortem by a larger scavenger. If you consider "time" and recognition state, I don't see how it couldn't be and the story be accurate at the same time.