younger dryas and bigfoot

[Doodler]

OK, bear with me.

 

Crazy theory, short version. Doodler's Grand Unified Bigfoot Theory. Stop me if this has been covered here before, it sounds oddly familiar.

 

Bigfoot is a people inhabiting the Western Hemisphere (and all other areas, but dominating here in NA) for hundreds of thousands of years whose society was completely destroyed by the Younger Dryas impact event, then were nearly entirely wiped out by disease carried by the first modern humans to cross the Pacific thousands of years later. They're the megafauna version of modern human, then what the first Spaniards to hit South America did to the South Americans, thus the South Americans did to the bigfoot who predated them.

 

You all probably know this, the Younger Dryas is a period in our geologic past prior to the last ice age and there is credible, and more accepted every year, evidence of a global catastrophe, more specifically a comet or meteor impact, possibly in Greenland but also with secondary impacts all over the Northern hemisphere causing an extinction level event.  There are regular discoveries of evidence appearing as far as Antarctica in the layer around 12,800 years ago, where exotic material levels spike like carbon materials that don't exist in other layers, like micro diamonds, and char as well as radical differences in other materials like platinum. This evidence is well documented, published in journals such as Nature and peer reviewed papers world wide. This is becoming more and more mainstream, and I believe as evidence mounts, it'll be commonly accepted fact that this was the trigger that killed off most megafauna and possibly triggered the ice age, but also wiped out nearly all human civilization on the planet at the time.

 

The rapid rise in sea level is thought to give rise to the nearly global biblical flood myth.

 

On top of this, there is more and more evidence every year of habitation in North America being discovered in older and older layers, long before the last ice age, for example, sites dated 25k years ago, and sites dated as early as 130k years ago. These locations are habitation sites like earthworks featuring geometric shapes, cave habitats and more. Even limits in otherwise thought of as inhospitable areas are being broken, the Amazon for example, long presumed to have been populated a mere thousand years ago is being explored with LIDAR and mounds are being discovered all over the place, mounds that predate modern concepts of initial habitation dates there.

 

Further, there's an almost conspiratorial denial of this in many science communities, and a false limit placed on human habitation, the "Clovis Limit", where archeologists AND Native American activists deny human habitation prior to the last ice age. For example, if you attempt to test DNA for pre-clovis samples, expect huge barriers to be thrown up from lawsuits to intimidation and funding loss. I remember one such fight, of remains found where they weren't even allowed to be dated, let alone DNA tested.

 

But so much pre-Clovis habitation evidence exists and has been published that archeologists who deny it with the "Clovis Limit" are starting to look like kooks. The script has flipped, so to speak. I believe this also will be considered fact before too long, like the meteor impact.

 

Finally, connecting the dots, I propose that bigfoot are a people who co-evolved, breaking off a long while back, spread out well in advance of modern man to occupy the Americas and build a society, were wiped out in the direct impact event of the Younger Dryas, and subsequent climate change caused by the catastrophe, and while modern man in other parts of the world bounced back and accelerated, they did not.

 

Modern governments actually know this, all of it, and refuse to acknowledge it because of the other evidence of earlier societies, and earlier advanced non-human societies, would disrupt modern man's primacy mentality.

 

Additionally, the fact that bigfoot was wide spread throughout the world prior to this even has lead to a natural world wide genetic memory of the big hairy creature in the woods as well as a real tribal memory passed down for tens of thousands of years of the same.

 

And that's my grand unified bigfoot theory. How crazy is it? At the very least, it's a great plot for a thriller where in the end, the great explorer is brought into the circle of trust and introduced to the secret world hidden by governments everywhere to live with the bigfoots or something.

 

Could this be proven genetically? Is there a great mitochondrial dna pinch point 12,800 years ago or so? I don't even know, never checked. Also, if we can get mitochondrial DNA from bigfoot, can't we tell how far back we split off (if they even did?).

[norseman]

A couple of thoughts.

 

First off, what ancient sites in the Americas are you referring to? These?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerutti_Mastodon_site

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hueyatlaco

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calico_Early_Man_Site

 

What do you ascribe “people” to? Homo Erectus left Africa before us. So did others. But it’s widely accepted Homo Erectus was first. To make what we know about the fossil record work with proposed ancient pre Clovis sites in the Americas? These sites would not have been used by modern Humans or Homo Sapiens. They are either too old for our species entirely. Or our species had not yet left Africa.

 

Homo Erectus flaked stone hand axes called “Achulean” technology. And used fire.

 

I could accept Homo Erectus losing its technology and regressing back to something akin to a Bigfoot. But a formed society building mound structures and doing other actions associated with Homo Sapiens? I don’t think so.

 

The species is almost 2 million years old. And we have evidence it inhabited Africa, Asia and Europe. We don’t see evidence of them building societies like ancient Human societies. They were basically stereotypical cave men.

 

Lastly we are in a cycle of ice ages called the milankovitch cycle. A asteroid could alter the cycles affects on the planet but ultimately the orbit and tilt decides our planets fate. 

 

https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2948/milankovitch-orbital-cycles-and-their-role-in-earths-climate/

 

Could something have gotten to the Americas before Homo Sapiens? I think the answer is a hard maybe. Although we need fossil evidence of what that was. Homo Erectus? Denisovans? Paranthropus? How old is bipedalism itself? 
 

One last note. The “Hobbit” got to Flores Island by sea. It was never connected to mainland Asia in the time frame in which Homo Erectus was spreading into the area. If Homo Erectus could sail even short distances? It opens up many questions as just how wide spread it may have been. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Doodler]

8 hours ago, norseman said:

A couple of thoughts.

 

First off, what ancient sites in the Americas are you referring to? These?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerutti_Mastodon_site

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hueyatlaco

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calico_Early_Man_Site

 

What do you ascribe “people” to? Homo Erectus left Africa before us. So did others. But it’s widely accepted Homo Erectus was first. To make what we know about the fossil record work with proposed ancient pre Clovis sites in the Americas? These sites would not have been used by modern Humans or Homo Sapiens. They are either too old for our species entirely. Or our species had not yet left Africa.

 

Homo Erectus flaked stone hand axes called “Achulean” technology. And used fire.

 

I could accept Homo Erectus losing its technology and regressing back to something akin to a Bigfoot. But a formed society building mound structures and doing other actions associated with Homo Sapiens? I don’t think so.

 

The species is almost 2 million years old. And we have evidence it inhabited Africa, Asia and Europe. We don’t see evidence of them building societies like ancient Human societies. They were basically stereotypical cave men.

 

Lastly we are in a cycle of ice ages called the milankovitch cycle. A asteroid could alter the cycles affects on the planet but ultimately the orbit and tilt decides our planets fate. 

 

https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2948/milankovitch-orbital-cycles-and-their-role-in-earths-climate/

 

Could something have gotten to the Americas before Homo Sapiens? I think the answer is a hard maybe. Although we need fossil evidence of what that was. Homo Erectus? Denisovans? Paranthropus? How old is bipedalism itself? 
 

One last note. The “Hobbit” got to Flores Island by sea. It was never connected to mainland Asia in the time frame in which Homo Erectus was spreading into the area. If Homo Erectus could sail even short distances? It opens up many questions as just how wide spread it may have been. 

 

 

 

 

Sites: Cerutti, I find the hammer stones at 30 pounds to be interesting because the skeptics report that 30 pounds is too heavy for humans. A guy named Steve Holen's reports on two sites in Kansas and Nebraska that are about 14,000 to 33,000 years old. Pennsylvania’s Meadowcroft Rockshelter and Chile’s Monte Verde are two good examples too, much older than Clovis. 

 

I think the doubt that infects academic scholars is a disease. They're addicted to harming others who discover something that challenges the status quo. 

 

As for who the people were, no clue, but I think the out-of-africa timelines are clearly broken if there are people using tools hundreds of thousands of years ago on every continent. Couple that to the fact that neanderthal DNA lives on?

 

As for who built the mounds, a 12,800 years ago is a truly long time. That's enough time to change the size of animals, select for larger or smaller examples. It's enough time to lighten skin, darken skin, change hair.

 

No matter who these ancient people were, today's academic scholars will fight tooth and nail to deny they ever existed, bigfoot or not.

 

 

 

 

[NatFoot]

Good thread. I don't have the knowledge to contribute much, but will be reading closely and learning.

[Arvedis]

Great topic!

 

I read all kinds of science every day and my feeling is there is an elephant in the room. Science already knows the "Clovis Limit" is no longer sustainable. What happens in academics though is change is slow to be accepted. Too many loopholes and room for controversy unless a scientific argument is airtight. So the argument will last forever until that indisputable model of evidence is built.

 

There are also people who exploit academic research and twist it for their own personal gain. One of the worst offenders is Graham Hancock who is a classic snake oil salesman.  He and other pseudo "catastrophe" writers skew perception of historical and scientific events among the general public. It's easy to point to younger dryas, comets. volcanos, any catastrophic event and say, this happened as a result of x.  But, the science of it is not sustainable.  It's just a good story to sell.

 

To me, it is obvious there was habitation in the Americas prior to last known indigenous peoples.  But I don't know who they were other than they seemed to be indigenous-like. To convince anyone of that theory with science however would require stepping out of the box too far to sustain it. 

 

 

 

 

[Doodler]

6 hours ago, Arvedis said:

 <Snip>

There are also people who exploit academic research and twist it for their own personal gain. One of the worst offenders is Graham Hancock who is a classic snake oil salesman.  He and other pseudo "catastrophe" writers skew perception of historical and scientific events among the general public. It's easy to point to younger dryas, comets. volcanos, any catastrophic event and say, this happened as a result of x.  But, the science of it is not sustainable.  It's just a good story to sell.

 

 

That's the guy who REALLY likes psychedelics?

 

Also, there's not many people who want to oil a snake these days. /Emmett Otter

[Skinwalker13]

Oh this is fun, I think you would enjoy the Fallen Worlds series weve been building over the years and releasing through Wild & Weird Radio. 

 

There's a lot of challenging theories out there now concerning the events that younger dryas and wiped out the Clovis culture as well as basiclaly every other advanced culture at the time, like those responsible for Gobekli Tepe. The Hiawatha impact crater has pretty much been solidified as well as the string impact theory as what likely caused the sudden halt in the warming period and extension of the ice age. Also the out of Africa theory has been under fire as of late again as well with human remains being found outside of africa at a much earlier date than had been previously accepted. History is being re-written slowly and dates are being pushed back on a regular scale at this point. There's even been recent evidence around the carolina bays being formed by chunks of debris and massive hunks of glacial ice being hurled through the sky from the Hiawatha impact. Give it about 15 or 20 more years and I have a feeling everything we currently think we know about human evolution and history will be turned on head.

[hiflier]

Like the fusing of chromosome 2 resulting in Humans having 23 pairs of chromosomes instead of the 24 pairs of the Great Apes? I wonder how many chromosome pairs there would be in the nuclei of whole cells from Sasquatch blood, tissue, or pile of fresh Sasquatch feces .

[Henry Stevens]

Here is a temperature graph from the last glacial maximum until today.  What I would like to point out is the fact that, concerning the Holocene, our climate today is cooler than most of the last 10,0000 years.  Human caused global warming is a fraud.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Younger_Dryas#/media/File:Evolution_of_temperature_in_the_Post-Glacial_period_according_to_Greenland_ice_cores_(Younger_Dryas).jpg

 

Also, within the four glacial maximums and interglacial periods earth's climate has swung wildly, sometimes with warm periods within the four major glaciations and sometimes with cold snaps within the interglacial periods.  During the last, Wuerm Glaciation, there was a warm period, the Gottweig Interstadial about 45,000 years ago.  It was during this warm period within a glaciation which allowed modern humans to enter Europe.

[Trogluddite]

On 2/13/2021 at 2:04 PM, Arvedis said:

Great topic!

...

What happens in academics though is change is slow to be accepted. Too many loopholes and room for controversy unless a scientific argument is airtight. So the argument will last forever until that indisputable model of evidence is built.

My understanding is that glacial lakes and the vast flooding of areas due to the collapse of those lakes was a "half-baked, nonsense" idea in the early 1900s when first proposed.  The scientist who proposed the theory (after some area out west reminded him of the ripples in sentiment at the bottom of a modern lake) did not see his theory accepted as scientific "fact" until he himself was in his 90s.  When asked how he felt about being proven right, he said something along the lines of, "Who can I gloat to about this?  All those who doubted me are dead."

[Henry Stevens]

Louis Agazzi?

 

Louis Agassiz - Wikipedia

[Trogluddite]

^^ I don't believe that is the scientist I can only faintly recall.  Still an interesting read, though.

 

[hiflier]

Maybe a guy named Bretz?

[Airdale]

Check out my signature line below. Living some 50 miles east of the easternmost extension of Glacial Lake Missoula at Gold Creek, I'm fascinated by this subject. Signs of the lake are abundant in Western Montana as seen in the following photos.

 

Road cut on I-90 west of Missoula displays multiple beds of Glacial Lake Missoula, the strata showing the alternating summer and winter deposits.

 

The satellite view of Camas Prairies where the ripples near the bottom center display the catastrophic emptying of the northern reaches of Lake Missoula towards the channel of the Clark Fork River visible near the top. The distances between the peaks of the ripples vary from roughly 150' to over 400'.

 

To the west is mile long Rainbow Lake, gouged out of solid bedrock by the flood waters.

 

Horizontal lines on mountain and hill sides around the entire area indicate old shore lines as the lake declined over dozens of repeated flood cycles with the retreating glaciers as the last ice age ended. They are nowhere more visible than on the slopes of Mount Sentinel (which I misspelled on the map title) over looking the City of Missoula.

 

 

In the map below, the green line runs from Gold Creek to my home in the Elkhorn Mountains above Montana City south of Helena.

 

 

 

I would be the last one to challenge Doodler's theory. Everything we "know" about our planet and its occupants from the dim reaches of the primordial past to the present day is made up of tiny snapshots over time and any of it can be turned on its ear literally overnight. Great thread sir!

[Trogluddite]

^^

AHA!  That is it.  Although, I do believe that I read this story somewhere other than your signature line!  Thank you very much!