Justin Smeja Incident?

[hiflier]

7 minutes ago, MIB said:

It is pretty clear that in this instance they are more interested in preserving the current belief paradigm than they are in exploring / seeking new knowledge.

 

An untrue generalization.

[hiflier]

9 minutes ago, MIB said:

I'm not interested in trying to shove proof down the throats of people who wish not to accept existence.

 

Don't think anyone would have to shove anything down anyone's throat. Such a discovery as a Bigfoot will have it's own legs.

[hiflier]

7 minutes ago, MIB said:

 

Agree .. I, too, am curious 'bout the DNA.    Not from the sense of proving existence, but from the sense of understanding.  

 

Cool, MIB. The difficult part, of course, is nailing down that kind of unknown area in genomics between the Chimps 98.9% and Neanderthal's 99.5%. It leaves about 30 million nucleotides (base pairs) and at least a thousand genes in the nuDNA up for grabs. Way less is the 16,569 nucleotides and 37 genes in the mtDNA. Could a Sasquatch somewhere in that half percent? That might not be a bad specific question to ask to open a dialogue with someone, say, in primate/ape/Human microbiology.

[BlackRockBigfoot]

7 hours ago, wiiawiwb said:

 

BRB, kindly know that you're doing what few people can or would do. You are dedicated to the task at hand and are tenacious in that pursuit. You're going up and over mountains with a heavy backpack when you could be home staring at a computer screen while nibbling on a cookie. You're fording streams and enduring rain storms when you could be home and have your feet up reading a book about sasquatch. You're trying to stay warm on cold nights in front of a fire while you could be home and simply turn up the thermostat. You're sleeping in a small tent, on a small air mattress, warmed only by the sleeping bag you carried in, when you could be home retire at night on your featherbed.

 

You keep your eyes on the prize and  persevere when others would have long ago chosen to trudge home, defeated, like Napoleon returning from Russia. It takes a special person to get up early when its still dark, go out and brave the elements, risk injury, and muster the energy to continue on. To always continue on.

 

You're not delusional at all. You're an explorer in the purest sense of the word. Keep up the great work you're doing as it will produce results, you'll have lots of fun, and your adventures will create endless stories and memories in the process.

 

Keep the faith.

Thanks, my friend.

 

I am actually posting from the vehicle right no.  We are driving into an area that we are going to check out for the next couple of nights.

[Huntster]

1 hour ago, Doug said:

I am willing to risk showing my ignorance of scientific process by asking some questions to help me understand somethings. What I am perceiving here, is certain individuals who believe that Sasquatch is a certain thing and only that certain thing, for what ever reason, and have set out to prove that this is the case and seem unwilling to accept anything that goes counter to what they want to find. While certain others have entered into this area with an open mind and willing to go where the science takes them, no matter how uncomfortable it becomes or how far away from what they wanted to find it is. It seems to me that both methods are worth doing.........

 

I see the "science" thing very differently. The scientific process is sound, but the process itself appears to be on hold waiting for a Justin Smeja type or a logging truck (which are dying off faster than sasquatches and the Smeja types) to provide a better chunk of meat.

 

The real debate, as far as "science" (as an industry or ideology) is concerned, isn't about what a sasquatch is, but whether a sasquatch is at all. After "discovery", a "scientist" (or newly formed herd of them) will pop up like weeds in an urban park to let us all know that sasquatches exist after all, then will modify all knowledge about mankind from Creation to the new, glorious day.

 

Now, who this "scientist" is and where he/she currently is remains a mystery more difficult to unravel than the mystery surrounding sasquatches.

 

My position? Based upon ALL the "scientific" evidence (fossils, footprints, photographs, motion pictures, testimony), I  know that sasquatch type creatures existed in the past, and I believe that a small number of the remained in various parts of the world until at least recently if not to this very day. As an outdoor enthusiast, I would love to observe one in the wild. I have theories (which have evolved dramatically over the past 55 years) about what these creatures are taxonomically, but at this point, that's all speculation. I have no responsibility whatsoever to prove their current existence to anybody, and I have no desire to do so. Others are free to kill one, capture one, photograph them, speak to them, mindspeak to them, share a smoke or pancake with them,........whatever. I really don't care.

[Wooly Booger]

15 hours ago, BlackRockBigfoot said:

“Face the facts, the only way to peak the interest of the scientific community is to present a well-researched flesh and blood hypothesis that Bigfoot as an unclassified species of primate.”  
 

Let me know how that works out for you, and let the forum know how many well respected members of the scientific community you are able to sway with your hypothesis.  
 

“But neither does the Tardis brigade and other assorted space cadets tromping around the forest with electromagnetic antennas chasing after ET and portals.”

 

Statements like this are why we find ourselves at opposite ends of the discussion in most threads…I believe that Bigfoot is a relic hominid, but I also believe that I don’t know everything under the sun and that the world is a stranger place than 

many realize.  I don’t dismiss and insult those who have claimed stranger encounters than could be explained by a simple undiscovered ape.  Some respected members of this forum (who have been involved in active field research far longer than I) have some personal accounts of activity that can’t be explained away by the presence of an undiscovered ape.  
 

Am I saying that these things are coming out of portals to stop global warming and bring world peace?  No, I am not.  I don’t know what is going on.  Honestly, it seems very hard for me to logically accept…but, it seems to be happening.  The whole idea of a huge undiscovered primate is hard to believe for most people  when you get right down to it…
 

Until very recently, a lot of people said similar things like your Tardis quote above about the UAP phenomenon…only to find themselves on the wrong side of the growing evidence.  If the IDH ends up being the most likely explanation, then that opens up the possibility that a lot of things that have been dismissed as sheer lunacy might very well have happened.   Skinwalker Ranch as an example.  

 

 

You seem be in doubt as to what this creature is, but your doubt is unnecessary since all of the available evidence suggests that Bigfoot is an unclassified species of primate. What you and certain others fail to understand is that by bringing woo into the subject they are making it all but impossible for Bigfoot research to attain scientific respectability. This wasn't always the case. If you are at all familiar with the history of zoological discovery, and I think that you are, then you are undoubtedly aware that the search for and discovery of new animal species has traditionally been a well respected and important branch of zoology. Heck, in the late 19th and early 20th centuries there were even hunts in Africa for living dinosaurs. Bigfoot should be no exception. It is a primate, either ape or hominid. It is not an ET, shapershifter, interdimensional being or any other fairy tale hokis pokis. Fringe researchers epitomized by the work of people like Nick Redfern are a scourge to our subject and a major stumbling block to our gaining the support of science. 

 

I honestly applaud your efforts in the field BRB.  Really I do.  You have devoted all of your free time to the subject and have spent countless hours in the field.  I wish you the best of luck my friend, and I hope you make your discovery.  I hope to, some day soon, have both the time and luxury to devote nearly as much time in the field as you have.  Your hard work and efforts are truly admirable.  

[Wooly Booger]

15 hours ago, Huntster said:

 

Then I suppose you have both a vested interest and a responsibility in discovery.

 

I don't.

I think you're just afraid that the Huntster might suddenly become the hunted 😆

 

I jest of course. But scientific discovery is vital of we ever hope to give this species the protection of the Endangered Species Act that it deserves. 

Edited June 12, 2021 by Wooly Booger

[Wooly Booger]

2 hours ago, Doug said:

I am willing to risk showing my ignorance of scientific process by asking some questions to help me understand somethings. What I am perceiving here, is certain individuals who believe that Sasquatch is a certain thing and only that certain thing, for what ever reason, and have set out to prove that this is the case and seem unwilling to accept anything that goes counter to what they want to find. While certain others have entered into this area with an open mind and willing to go where the science takes them, no matter how uncomfortable it becomes or how far away from what they wanted to find it is. It seems to me that both methods are worth doing. It is when one of the methods begins to proclaim that the other method is wrong and the people who are experiencing these things are unstable, to put it mildly, because they have not experienced it, have not set out to do in-depth study on that, because it doesn't fit what they believe it to be that I become irritated.. To me, book smarts do not trump actually field experience. Someone who is looking at a Sasquatch and sees it do something that they have never witnessed an animal do, in my opinion, is more qualified to speak of it than someone who has immersed them selves into the subject through books, videos, scientific papers, and such. I see a lot of the flesh and blood camp regularly ridicule anyone who believes other wise. I rarely see the woo people ridicule the flesh and blood people other than in response to a perceived  attack. I write this as someone who has had multiple encounters, with sightings by others who were with me at the time of the encounters, that has only seen flesh and blood things except for two of the encounters. I just want to understand this and truly mean no ill will towards anyone, although it may seem that I do.

No one is trying to chase anybody out of the field. If the fringe want to tramp around in the woods chasing after shapeshifters and portals they are welcome to it. To each their own. 

 

All I am saying is that Bigfoot researchers need to vocally and decisively separate ourselves from the woo crowd in order for our subject to attain the scientific respectability that it deserves. The search for unknown species, even prehistoric relicts, has traditionally been a well respected part of zoological research. See my above post. It is only the perceived association with certain fringe elements that has resulted in this respectability being revoked. 

[ShadowBorn]

17 minutes ago, Wooly Booger said:

 

I jest of course. But scientific discovery is vital of we ever hope to give this species the protection of the Endangered Species Act that it deserves.

They do not need to be protected since they are the Apex. So they are not at all endangered since there is no way to tell if they are. Why do we keep talking about them being endangered.  It is not like we keep finding a dead Bigfoot every where we look in our natural forest. So how can you say or even mention Endangered Species Act when we cannot even get a bead on one.

 

18 minutes ago, Wooly Booger said:

All I am saying is that Bigfoot researchers need to vocally and decisively separate ourselves from the woo crowd in order for our subject to attain the scientific respectability that it deserves.

How far has research gone with out looking into the woo side of these. Where are we at in the field of research now. No closer then we were years back. Unless we move forward with open minds we will still be in the same place for years to come. If you want to separate yourself from the woo crowd then that's fine . All I can say is that you may find your self like others who have never had an encounter. The woo to me does not mean opening up portals, mind speaking, or even that shape shifting.  But finding those hot spots and reaching out to them and having them reach back and make contact with you. That does not take science but knowledge of what others have used and succeeded.  Proven methods. In other words leave science behind. If you keep on thinking that they are primates or some type of sub-humans then you have it all wrong. But look up the success rate of what others have tried . Make a graph if it will help you . But there you will see a failure rate .  I am not trying to pick on you at all. But I see allot of scientist as very close minded.  I gave up my time in the field but every so often i get that bite. All I can say is that I am not ready to deal with it again.    

[norseman]

44 minutes ago, Wooly Booger said:

No one is trying to chase anybody out of the field. If the fringe want to tramp around in the woods chasing after shapeshifters and portals they are welcome to it. To each their own. 

 

All I am saying is that Bigfoot researchers need to vocally and decisively separate ourselves from the woo crowd in order for our subject to attain the scientific respectability that it deserves. The search for unknown species, even prehistoric relicts, has traditionally been a well respected part of zoological research. See my above post. It is only the perceived association with certain fringe elements that has resulted in this respectability being revoked. 

Im not a big fan of woo. But with that said? Woo has nothing to do with the respectability of Bigfoot. An undiscovered 800 lbs apeman wandering the forest of North America is plenty enough for science to scoff, jeer and laugh at the subject.

 

The Yeti gets a tad more plausibility because of where it supposedly resides in the world. Asia has fossils of apes and ape men. It has extant apes living there today. North America does not with the exception of Homo Sapiens.

 

Science makes fun of our lack of evidence. Plaster casts and sightings reports do not impress them. If a tooth or a finger bone were produced in a controlled fashion, (X bone came out of Y excavation) then science would possibly sit up and take notice. But even then it may be a fight.....

 

http://patagoniamonsters.blogspot.com/2019/12/more-on-erectus-calvaria-from-chapala.html

 

So science isn’t questioning the validity of the skull cap..... it’s questioning WHERE it was found. Someone could have just flown it across the Pacific and dropped it in Mexico.

 

A Bigfoot bone collected by a amateur is going to face similar scrutiny. 
 

It’s best unfortunately to have a bloody corpse in tow. Which means we are on our own for the foreseeable future.

 

 

[Kiwakwe]

Wooly my man, the notion of an 8' hair covered biped has all the disrepute the science community needs to hear for it to be as absurd as what many term woo.

Prior to any claims of woo-ish qualities, it was still a very hard sell that maybe 3 scientists bought and saw fit to examine in over 50 years--at least publicly. The subject cannot be made fit to appeal regardless of how much flesh and blood is in the pitch. I've said it before, if a "scientist" refuses to look at evidence gathered thus far due to peer or professional pressure, he is not a scientist but rather a ninny-esque, agentic line-tower with no rightful claim to the title. 

[Doug]

Wooly Booger, I tend to agree with a lot of what you have been saying on most of the topics on this forum that I have read. You have done well stating your case and replying to a lot of posts. For me, it hasn't been so much your message than your presentation. Instead of presenting a separation from the woo stuff and stick to the flesh and blood, you used phrases and words such as "fairytail hokis pokis (sic), kooks, the word "rubbish" often and more, when referring to woo and those who believe in it.  That comes of as insulting to those people and quite frankly to me, it seemed rather condescending and smug, as if, you have become an authority on the subject because you have science degrees and read a lot of books, saw some videos, watched some documentaries  and other media without so much as any kind of encounter. Now, I'm pretty sure that this is NOT the case with you, however, it is the perception that I got. So, having said that, I do apologize for SOME of the things that I posted in reaction to some of your posts. 

[Wooly Booger]

6 minutes ago, Doug said:

Wooly Booger, I tend to agree with a lot of what you have been saying on most of the topics on this forum that I have read. You have done well stating your case and replying to a lot of posts. For me, it hasn't been so much your message than your presentation. Instead of presenting a separation from the woo stuff and stick to the flesh and blood, you used phrases and words such as "fairytail hokis pokis (sic), kooks, the word "rubbish" often and more, when referring to woo and those who believe in it.  That comes of as insulting to those people and quite frankly to me, it seemed rather condescending and smug, as if, you have become an authority on the subject because you have science degrees and read a lot of books, saw some videos, watched some documentaries  and other media without so much as any kind of encounter. Now, I'm pretty sure that this is NOT the case with you, however, it is the perception that I got. So, having said that, I do apologize for SOME of the things that I posted in reaction to some of your posts. 

No hard feelings. And I also apologize for coming across as condescending and demeaning. That has never been my intent, it is simply how I sometimes present myself when I have a strong position on the subject. 

 

My intent isn't to insult and belittle those who have had certain experiences. It is simply to look at those experiences through the prism of hard science in order to attempt to arrive at a hypothesis as to what some people have been experiencing with these creatures. 

[Huntster]

1 hour ago, Wooly Booger said:

I think you're just afraid that the Huntster might suddenly become the hunted 😆.....

 

 

I've been "hunted" by big bears and people before. Yes, it's pretty disturbing. If I ever encountered a sasquatch, I'd definitely want my rifle in my hands. But I'm not really afraid of that possible scenario. The odds of me ever encountering one are pretty long.

 

Quote

.......But scientific discovery is vital of we ever hope to give this species the protection of the Endangered Species Act that it deserves. 

 

If they are determined to be of the genus Homo, which I'm increasingly inclined to believe, the ESA does not apply. They would qualify for all the human rights you and I are afforded.

 

And that's why I'm inclined to believe that government does not encourage and actually hinders discovery.

[Huntster]

2 hours ago, Wooly Booger said:

.........What you and certain others fail to understand is that by bringing woo into the subject they are making it all but impossible for Bigfoot research to attain scientific respectability.........

 

If you study the people on this forum who have been posting the "woo" over the past 20 years, you might "discover" that they universally don't want "discovery".