Neanderthal child

[norseman]

Found this photo of a Neanderthal child and was struck by the sheer size of the eye sockets.

 

 

 

 

[NorthWind]

Wow, that's really something. Why were they so big? Superior night vision? Makes me wonder if bigfoot descended from this lineage and has specialized eyes. 

 

As a side note, I'll bet this kid was hard to fit for glasses.

[norseman]

1 hour ago, NorthWind said:

Wow, that's really something. Why were they so big? Superior night vision? Makes me wonder if bigfoot descended from this lineage and has specialized eyes. 

 

As a side note, I'll bet this kid was hard to fit for glasses.

He didn’t need them.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-21759233

[Huntster]

44 minutes ago, norseman said:

He didn’t need them.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-21759233

 

From your link:

 

Quote

........A study of Neanderthal skulls suggests that they became extinct because they had larger eyes than our species. 

As a result, more of their brains were devoted to seeing in the long, dark nights in Europe, at the expense of high-level processing..........

 

I'll call BS on that. It completely ignores homo sapiens who live even farther north than Neanderthals did and did not grow larger eyes. Indeed, Inuit eyes are squinty.

[norseman]

2 minutes ago, Huntster said:

 

From your link:

 

 

I'll call BS on that. It completely ignores homo sapiens who live even farther north than Neanderthals did and did not grow larger eyes. Indeed, Inuit eyes are squinty.

For protection from cold winds in Siberia. Their epicanthal fold is a layer of fat around the eye socket that helps keep their eyes from freezing.

 

Neanderthals lived in deep caves and hunted in dense European forests. It’s a different visual need. They could not have lived any farther north because of the ice sheets. And 250,000 years ago the Inuit ancestors were living in Africa.

 

But the much older Neanderthal adaption goes far beyond some skin and fat on the face. Their skulls are shaped different. Their eye sockets were much bigger. And their eyes were much bigger. And how their brain processed vision was different than ours.

 

We know Neanderthal genes in modern humans is linked to Autism. Very non social behavior. This gave humans a leg up on tribal warfare. Building bigger armies, better communication and cooperation.

 

But one on one in the shadows of old Europe? The Neanderthal was king I bet. Enough to leave a lasting impression on Homo Sapiens lineage. Red hair, freckles, barrel chests, pale skin.

[Huntster]

20 minutes ago, norseman said:

For protection from cold winds in Siberia........

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_goggles

 

Quote

......We know Neanderthal genes in modern humans is linked to Autism.......

 

Like vaccines?:

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02989-9

 

 

[norseman]

3 minutes ago, Huntster said:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_goggles

 

 

Like vaccines?:

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02989-9

 

 

Not following you on the vax link.

 

But the googles were used to prevent snow blindness. Caused by the reflection off snow by SUNLIGHT. This is because where the Inuit live? There are no trees. Thals had the opposite problem. They lived in dense northern forests. They were powerful ambush predators. They didn’t throw their spears. They hid in the shadows and the dense understory along game trails and pounced on their prey.

[norseman]

[hiflier]

9 hours ago, Huntster said:

 

I'll call BS on that. It completely ignores homo sapiens who live even farther north than Neanderthals did and did not grow larger eyes. Indeed, Inuit eyes are squinty.

 

Neanderthals left Africa and entered the northern climes long before Modern Humans (Cro-Magnon) even existed. But even so, I'm not sure 3-4 hundred thousand years is enough time for any smaller African eyes to evolve into larger ones, which isn't only about the eyes but is also about an accommodating skeletal structure, too. And then, would there actually be enough time for any changes in the brain's cognitive abilities and visual interpretations? Seems like a lot to have been altered in too short a time.

 

I propose instead that living deep in caves and thick jungles while in Africa was the evolutionary forcing that prepared Neanderthals to function in the North, with other Homo species adapting to the plains and other open grasslands- eyes and all.   

Edited January 24, 2022 by hiflier

[Huntster]

9 hours ago, norseman said:

Not following you on the vax link.......

 

Vaccines "were linked" to autism, too. The very "scientific" war being waged right now with our daily lives can be directly linked to the supposed link to autism.

 

Science is the latest, greatest religion, and I do not worship at its altar. AFAIC, "proof" of anything is elusive at best, "evidence" is the best one can get, and my suspicion and doubt have grown to epic proportions.

 

Quote

.......But the googles were used to prevent snow blindness. Caused by the reflection off snow by SUNLIGHT. This is because where the Inuit live? There are no trees. Thals had the opposite problem. They lived in dense northern forests.......

 

Firstly, yes, snow goggles are to prevent snow blindness in the spring. Winter is a L O N G period with no light whatsoever. The sun goes down in mid-November and doesn't come back up for three full months. In summer the snow is gone, so goggles are not needed. The point is that Inuit eyes didn't evolve to deal with the extreme of darkness, but with the extreme of light. 

 

Secondly, Neanderthals living "deep within caves and forests" is assumed. Their bones have been found in caves, but so are the bones of all other predators of the era. Caves provide the better conditions for fossil and artifact preservation. As the life of a nomadic hunter/gatherer would demand, Neanderthals hunted/gathered in the forests, steppes, mountains, seashores, tundra, etc. Accepting the theory of darkness because of habitat while simultaneously rejecting Danny Vendramini's "Them & Us" theory of nocturnal hunter evolution is extremely weak. 

[norseman]

30 minutes ago, Huntster said:

 

Vaccines "were linked" to autism, too. The very "scientific" war being waged right now with our daily lives can be directly linked to the supposed link to autism.

 

Science is the latest, greatest religion, and I do not worship at its altar. AFAIC, "proof" of anything is elusive at best, "evidence" is the best one can get, and my suspicion and doubt have grown to epic proportions.

 

 

Firstly, yes, snow goggles are to prevent snow blindness in the spring. Winter is a L O N G period with no light whatsoever. The sun goes down in mid-November and doesn't come back up for three full months. In summer the snow is gone, so goggles are not needed. The point is that Inuit eyes didn't evolve to deal with the extreme of darkness, but with the extreme of light. 

 

Secondly, Neanderthals living "deep within caves and forests" is assumed. Their bones have been found in caves, but so are the bones of all other predators of the era. Caves provide the better conditions for fossil and artifact preservation. As the life of a nomadic hunter/gatherer would demand, Neanderthals hunted/gathered in the forests, steppes, mountains, seashores, tundra, etc. Accepting the theory of darkness because of habitat while simultaneously rejecting Danny Vendramini's "Them & Us" theory of nocturnal hunter evolution is extremely weak. 

Why is it weak? Show me a primate that has cat eye slit pupils…. Danny is a crackpot. And his supposed Thals don’t resemble the genus Homo in anyway. That doesn’t mean that there is some kernels of truth there. A broken clock is right twice a day.

 

If I’m dead wrong? So be it. Why do you think that Thals had such big eye sockets?

[hiflier]

Speculation needs proof. No one is more aware of that than I to the level that I carry a DNA collection setup. Anyone else have one? No? I don't even care if I see such a creature or not- it just doesn't matter. Today I'm going out for my seventh trip of this season. Three of those trips involved camping in cold snowy conditions but the others were near enough to do long exploratory day trips. Do I have photos? Yes I do, but I no longer post media here. 

[Huntster]

1 hour ago, norseman said:

Why is it weak? Show me a primate that has cat eye slit pupils….

 

Cat eye pupils was a stupid marketing mistake by Vendramini. While I do not rule out cat eyes, depicting them in art was nothing more than giving a great point to condemn his entire theory, as you so regularly prove. Every other aspect of his theory is on the mark:

 

* Nocturnal behavior mostly explaining the large eyes. I will agree that extensive cave use, northern latitudes, and forest dwelling are contributing factors, but nocturnal hunting would be rhe most prevalent factor.

 

* Hirstute bodies. Unlike African and west Asian homo sapiens, Neanderthals were likely covered in hair. 

 

* Predatory behavior toward homo sapiens, whether or not they ate their human cousins. Homo sapiens kill each other with regular glee, so to imagine that Neanderthals did not would be almost stupid.

 

Quote

........Danny is a crackpot. And his supposed Thals don’t resemble the genus Homo in anyway. That doesn’t mean that there is some kernels of truth there. A broken clock is right twice a day........

 

Vendramini made a really stupid mistake with his marketing cartoons. In order to deal with foolish scientists, one must deal with them like a lawyer deals with a judge and jury........IOW, a collection of fools. He chose the fantastic approach. He handed them the scourge that they use to whip him. He isn't the broken clock; science as an industry is. It's only correct when the hands are physically moved to the correct moment, and even then it's only an imagined representation of time as mankind misunderstands it.

 

[norseman]

44 minutes ago, Huntster said:

 

Cat eye pupils was a stupid marketing mistake by Vendramini. While I do not rule out cat eyes, depicting them in art was nothing more than giving a great point to condemn his entire theory, as you so regularly prove. Every other aspect of his theory is on the mark:

 

* Nocturnal behavior mostly explaining the large eyes. I will agree that extensive cave use, northern latitudes, and forest dwelling are contributing factors, but nocturnal hunting would be rhe most prevalent factor.

 

* Hirstute bodies. Unlike African and west Asian homo sapiens, Neanderthals were likely covered in hair. 

 

* Predatory behavior toward homo sapiens, whether or not they ate their human cousins. Homo sapiens kill each other with regular glee, so to imagine that Neanderthals did not would be almost stupid.

 

 

Vendramini made a really stupid mistake with his marketing cartoons. In order to deal with foolish scientists, one must deal with them like a lawyer deals with a judge and jury........IOW, a collection of fools. He chose the fantastic approach. He handed them the scourge that they use to whip him. He isn't the broken clock; science as an industry is. It's only correct when the hands are physically moved to the correct moment, and even then it's only an imagined representation of time as mankind misunderstands it.

 

I will take the Max Plank institute of anthropology over Danny Vendramini any day.

1 hour ago, hiflier said:

Speculation needs proof. No one is more aware of that than I to the level that I carry a DNA collection setup. Anyone else have one? No? I don't even care if I see such a creature or not- it just doesn't matter. Today I'm going out for my seventh trip of this season. Three of those trips involved camping in cold snowy conditions but the others were near enough to do long exploratory day trips. Do I have photos? Yes I do, but I no longer post media here. 

We have proof. Neanderthals eye sockets are bigger than Homo Sapiens.

[norseman]

3 hours ago, hiflier said:

 

Neanderthals left Africa and entered the northern climes long before Modern Humans (Cro-Magnon) even existed. But even so, I'm not sure 3-4 hundred thousand years is enough time for any smaller African eyes to evolve into larger ones, which isn't only about the eyes but is also about an accommodating skeletal structure, too. And then, would there actually be enough time for any changes in the brain's cognitive abilities and visual interpretations? Seems like a lot to have been altered in too short a time.

 

I propose instead that living deep in caves and thick jungles while in Africa was the evolutionary forcing that prepared Neanderthals to function in the North, with other Homo species adapting to the plains and other open grasslands- eyes and all.   

No. This is wrong. Neanderthals evolved from Homo Heidelbergensis who migrated from Africa.

 

https://australian.museum/learn/science/human-evolution/homo-heidelbergensis/

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaeological_site_of_Atapuerca

 

In 1994 and 1995, over 80 bone fragments of five or six hominidsfound, between 850,000 and 780,000 years old, being at least 250,000 years older than any other hominid yet discovered in western Europe. About 25% of the bones have manipulation marks that suggest cannibalism. Classification of these remains is still being debated; suggestions range from Homo erectus to Homo heidelbergensis and Homo antecessor. Some researchers, who are familiar with the stratigraphic material of Gran Dolina, argue that Homo antecessor may be the ancestor of Homo heidelbergensis, who in turn gave rise to Homo neanderthalensis. The Homo erectus-like fossils were also found with retouched flake and core stone tools.