Is The Skookum Cast Still Considered To Be A Potential Bigfoot Lay?

[Guest LAL]

They should have been trying to prove it's an elk lay first, then if that becomes IMPOSSIBLE then you start to think of alternative sources.

They did.

[Guest]

I just want to know what a "credentialed" scientist is, and why the opinion of such people is above reproach.

That should be obvious. Possessing a degree or degrees in appropriately related areas of expertise.

By any objective criteria, I am a credentialed scientist. I have examined photographs of the Skookum Cast and read about the circumstances of its origin, as well as various interpretations.

So you admit to not examining the primary evidence source, the cast itself...

There is nothing in the peer-reviewed literature on the Skookum Cast, so any opinions on its interpretation are just that: opinions.

Peer review is not the legitimizer of a scientific opinion. The lack of a PR paper does not change the evidence as discovered by Drs Meldrum, et al.

In my opinion as a credentialed scientist, both the physical and circumstantial evidence overwhelmingly point to an elk as the source of the impression.

So where's YOUR "peer reviewed" paper, based on first hand examination of the primary evidence source and specifically countering the scientific observations of Drs Meldrum, et al?

They give reasons. You give opinions.

So Mulder et al., can I count on you to defend my position as vehemently as you do Dr. Meldrum's? Can I count on you to lay the smack down on anyone who makes a disparaging remark toward me on the BFF? If not, why not?

For the reasons stated above. You have not engaged the evidence at it's source, you have not specifically countered the observations of the proponent scientists.

All you've done is say in essence "I'm a scientist, and it's an elk lay".

No sale. You have NOT "walked the walk" in regards to the Impression, so your attempt to "talk the talk" has no value.

[Guest StankApe]

hahahaha!! typical "witch burning" again..... This is all opinions.... I have seen no evidence that makes it being an elk lay impossible. I have seen no evidence that makes the "heel" anything other than an elk fore limb. In fact i have seen nothing other than speculation and hype. (btw I happen to be a fan of Dr Meldrum's and I think his work on footprints is very interesting, yet I think he simply got this one wrong...it happens to scientists quite a lot actually)

If someone disagrees you call them an "ardent bigfoot denier" or "anti-bigfoot" and dismiss their opinion. yet if someone is "an ardent bigfoot defender " or "pro bigfoot" we are supposed to accept EVERYTHING THEY SAY AT FACE VALUE? No sir. that ain't how it works.

[Guest]

No, I dismiss Saskeptic's "opinion" because it is simply that. Unlike Drs Meldrum, et al, he has not examined the primary evidence source and has therefore no valid basis for said opinion.

[Guest StankApe]

So a film or photograph of the cast is not sufficient evidence to prove whether or not it's an elk lay? Hmm, this logic would be interesting over on the PGF threads....

i was more in reference to the dismissal of the "expert" who claimed it was an obvious elk lay. He's a real scientist, and he said elk. and he's said to be anti bigfoot and therefor he lied to make everyone mad I guess. Where the pro bigfoot people would never jump to conclusions because they are overly excited about their find and want to add themselves to the mythology of the creature? .... It seems like door should swing both ways there.

[Guest LAL]

LAL: Thanks for posting the hair photo. Certainly looks human to me. Do you know who is in possession of it now? Why not DNA test it against those in the group?

There was no DNA testing that would work on a hair shaft at the time but I think I remember (from the old BFF discussion) hairs were collected from the group for comparison. If it came from Dr. Fish's beard a comparison might be difficult inasmuch as he's dead. I don't know who has it now.

That reminds me of his bootprint giving some scale. Did you read the other thread where the possibility of a young elk was discussed?

Krakatoa, your link doesn't work for me - Error 403. Can you upload to Photobucket and post the image from there?

[Guest LAL]

It's a valid argument though.... How can someone look at the cast, see all the tracks and elk hairs...

Again, the elk tracks were older than the impression and skirted it. A transiting elk does not explain the impression.

We're primates and we can belly crawl.

"One tactic that they were also claiming to have witnessed personally was that the sasquatch would belly-crawl in close to the house to get a closer view, as opposed to just walking on on two feet. I explained these claims to the assembled group. They politely listened but they did not take the claims too seriously. I even went so far as to suggest that it was possible, based on my experience at the Hoyts', that the sasquatch could be spying on us in our camp. "Heck, they could be listening to us right now," I shrugged. That comment probably didn't help. People rolled their eyes. Rick was especially skeptical. he had visited the Hoyt's homestead and he was not at all convinced that their claims of habituated sasquatches were genuine."

http://www.thomsquatch.com/2011/01/skookum-synchronicity.html

[Guest RedRatSnake]

They did.

Did they really ? seems like the deal was sealed within the first few minutes

http://www.bfro.net/NEWS/BODYCAST/expedition_details.asp

Fish, Noll and Randles leave camp near 9:00am to check bait sites. Fruit gone from gravel pit bank, still present in wet area of gravel pit. Fruit gone from roadside. Mud site has fruit missing, 3 out of six apples gone. Melons pecked by birds, probably ravens. Old tracks in mud include elk, deer, bear, coyote. The most obvious fresh tracks were coyote and undetermined deep marks. Noll, Randles, and Fish notice an unusual impression in the transition mud at the edge of the muddy pool area. The three trackers discuss the strange imprint, then suddenly it dawns what animal caused it. Fish and Randles note the shock on Noll's face. Each tracker comes closer to have another look, discussions follow for 2-3 minutes. The three observe and note the various parts of the impression, and the chunks of chewed apple apparently spewed about over the imprint.

[Guest]

That 2-3 minute figure is for the RE-examination of the impression. Nothing is said about how long they looked at it the first time.

[Guest LAL]

And after that there were trips to elk farms and the obtaining of elk legs. Still waiting on a cooperative elk to duplicate the impression.

[Guest]

Must be waiting for that rare Indian Elk...they're trained in levitation y'know...

[Guest RedRatSnake]

Are we not reading this part maybe ~~~

Noll, Randles, and Fish notice an unusual impression in the transition mud at the edge of the muddy pool area. The three trackers discuss the strange imprint, then suddenly it dawns what animal caused it. Fish and Randles note the shock on Noll's face.

Bing Go ! Mind is made up ~~ what followed was for show ~~ There needs to be a BF for most of the people involved so they can have there BF game, this was the perfect little gem and it was played to all that would watch and listen, and it's still selling tickets ~

Tim

[Guest 127]

They did.

They failed. Horribly. Which makes me take their future findings into close scrutiny, and wonder about motivations.

Edited October 26, 2011 by 127

[Guest Primate]

Because they disagree with you..??

[Guest RedRatSnake]

That 2-3 minute figure is for the RE-examination of the impression. Nothing is said about how long they looked at it the first time.

I don't see were it says anything about a 1st or Re Exam.

Any way ! What's the difference if they looked at it for a month, they all made there mind up right then and there regardless of what anyone else said about it . . .

Tim