Is The Skookum Cast Still Considered To Be A Potential Bigfoot Lay?

[Guest]

I have to laugh, because I am the one who started this thread, and I think I've changed my mind. It seems to be an obvious elk lay. Kudos to those who provided the illustrations!

[Guest Cervelo]

Tim,

We crossed into that realm a long time ago! I'm with you let's bring back the PG-R version with all the bad words and the hurt feelings!!!

[bipedalist]

This thread is.... enlightening. Now I understand why folks laugh at the subject. What is an obvious elk lay is being defended as a bigfoot impression. Can't you find something better than this to defend? Serious question: Why would you for any reason consider this elk lay related to bigfoot? Because the people there were looking for bigfoot, and they found it? .....

Every time these people go looking for bigfoot evidence they find it. Yet, never can find what makes it - even when its explained ad nauseum in simple terms it is refused and touted as "bigfoot evidence" and some of the best of its kind. I have to say after some observations: This thread is an excellent example of the bigfoot phenomenon. The scientists involved should be ashamed of themselves for not identifying this correctly even after this much time. I have little faith any their future findings if they are lacking the ability to determine such simple evidence as this. Much less some of the less than stellar footprint evidence that is touted as authentic. This has been an educational adventure for me. I thank you all for it.

Not as easy to accept once you study the geometry and 3-D impressions present in the cast.....it does not add up to morphology physically or any possibility of it being an elk--- laying and rising. But many have tried to defend both points of view. There are many here that don't accept the elk lay philosophy after reading and studying all the arguments. It's not one of the prime pieces of evidence for me though like it may be for others.

[Guest Crowlogic]

It could be a lot of things but it's not a Bigfoot. It is however a fine example of grasping at straws. It's sort of like trying to contort Rosemary Woods into accidently erasing those tapes back in the70's. It's that kind of pretzel logic that it takes to make that imprint a sign of Bigfoot.

[Guest LAL]

Sheesh, doesn't anyone realize elk lay was the first thing they considered - and ruled out?

How much does this look like the "Silly Putty" copy?

And how did the "elk" get up and out of the impression without messing it up and leaving fresh tracks all over it?

[Guest parnassus]

elk place their feet under themselves in order to get up.

Not true. Are you speaking for yourself or someone else?I'll assume it's not you and that you are repeating what someone told someone blah blah. Tell me who says so...Rick Noll? Who is the person who claims this to a fact that they personally know? They dont know what they are talking about. Bet there isn't a decent bowhunter in the lot...no one who's been within 20 yards of a healthy elk in the wild when they decide to motor. Sometimes they stand up like me getting out of bed and sometimes they blow out like a rocket, in which case they don't gather their feet. Until you see it, you don't even understand it.

Edited October 12, 2011 by parnassus

[Guest]

Edited to add: Based on what was this declared to be bigfoot evidence? Wishful thinking?

You might wish to read up on the circumstances of the Cast find before making conclusions rooted in a lack of knowledge. You'll find that the bigfoot hypothesis was embraced only after all other likely causes were dismissed.

[Guest LAL]

Bull elk getting up from a rest, Rocky Mountain National Park, Colorado

[Guest parnassus]

Bull elk getting up from a rest, Rocky Mountain National Park, Colorado

So what? We all know they can get up that way. That's not what they do when something scares them out of a lay. Have you ever seen one jump out of a lay yourself or are you just going on what someone told you?

[Guest]

Well I wasn't aware that the ground was frozen.

Your lack of knowledge of the topic is obvious.

So you are saying it was frozen solid?

Freezing transforms a liquid to a solid, so yes.

If so, how was any imprint left there at all?

Biological Physics for Jocks: Big endothermic animal lays on frozen surface. Body heat thaws frozen surface, allowing imprint to be left behind, which also obliterates previous imprints.

If you are truly interested in the topic, you can read several readily available writeups by persons who were present, which are easily found with Google. As the sun rose the mud started thawing. As I recall, the Cast team placed items (cardboard?) to keep the imprint in shade until it could be cast.

[Guest LAL]

So what? We all know they can get up that way. That's not what they do when something scares them out of a lay. Have you ever seen one jump out of a lay yourself or are you just going on what someone told you?

Are you saying an elk can jump out of an elk lay without messing it up or leaving fresh tracks if it's sufficiently scared?

I used to live below an area that was frequented by elk for whatever that's worth.

[Guest RedRatSnake]

You might wish to read up on the circumstances of the Cast find before making conclusions rooted in a lack of knowledge. You'll find that the bigfoot hypothesis was embraced only after all other likely causes were dismissed.

The majority of the folks that gave there input too what it was were BF enthusiasts looking for only one answer ~ No to mention that is came from the totally one sided BFRO were nothing can ever be questioned.

Tim

[Guest FuriousGeorge]

Parn, there is a problem with the server right now as well as the messaging system. I'm working on restoring your post. I deleted the multi-post leaving the last one intact, which you edited to read "dup". Sorry for the mishap. Hope to have it fixed soon.

[wolftrax]

Let what? Hasn't the Skookum Cast been available for examination by zoologosts, mammalogists, anatomists, primatologists for a decade? How many have asked to see it?

DDA has always been willing to answer questions on the forum - at least when people aren't attacking him. He stated his reasons for not sharing his 3-D scan on another thread.

Skookum lean:

No, Anton Wroblewski, with a phd in geology, with a specialty in ichnology, the study of fossil and animal traces, was only allowed to analyze the original under the conditions that Noll could film him and use the footage any way he wanted. Considering that Noll is a producer of Bigfoot documentaries, and Wroblewski's refusal based on endangering his employment, his refusal is understandable. Noll has not allowed free access to analyze the cast.

Benjamin Radford was also denied access based on being a "Hostile witness" because he is the editor of the Skeptical Inquirer.

Wroblewski did analyze the cast copy, and though claims have been made that it is drastically different from the original only after Wroblewski's analysis, nobody has given any measurements to show how different it is.

http://www.bigfootencounters.com/articles/skookum_hokum.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Radford

The reasoning given for Noll denying giving access to the 3d scan data was not reasonable. The equipment is here, the software is here, there is no reason he couldn't have allowed that to happen.

[wolftrax]

Sheesh, doesn't anyone realize elk lay was the first thing they considered - and ruled out?

How much does this look like the "Silly Putty" copy?

And how did the "elk" get up and out of the impression without messing it up and leaving fresh tracks all over it?

The same way this one did: