The Echo Incident

[southernyahoo]

There has always been the debate on which is the biggest rabit hole Norse. Being human and not forming large villages and building bonfires or being an 800 pound biped with zero sense of self engaging in rock wars with humans, raiding their freezers and has never been dropped and brought out in the open for everyone to see in 400 years.  They both make it seem unlikely to have been so successful without fail at hiding from science without help from us, either through scepticism and denial or they've been found many times and covered up.

 

I doubt we would deny their existence (with body in hand) if it didn't violate the sanctity of humanity and what it is to be human.

Edited May 27, 2014 by southernyahoo

[norseman]

^^^^^^

Your not listening to what leaf talker is saying......he is going for option number three. They have villages and fire and tools, etc, etc.

And that's what I find absurd.

[ohiobill]

Leaftalker believes in ALL the options available - villages, fires, and tools are on the low end of the pool you are swimming in right now. 

[norseman]

I suppose your saying space ships and time travel are on the deep end?

[ohiobill]

I'm saying some folks will believe anything and it's not worth your time. 

[salubrious]

What you seem not to understand is that a discussion of evidence has nothing to do with either belief OR logic. 

 

Evidence is something that can be seen, touched, smelled, or heard. 

 

Studying evidence requires the use of your sensory apparatus, not your "logic". 

 

If your "logic" is overriding the testimony of your senses -- to the point where your "logic" says that an audio recorder that is playing back sounds is not actually playing those sounds -- then something is very wrong.

 

What's funny is, this particular piece of audio that southernyahoo has reminded us about was recorded by the NAWAC team, which consists of honorable people who most here generally seem to feel would never stoop to falsifying evidence.

 

So the character of the people who made this recording is not in question. We can trust that the recording is an actual recording of an actual Sasquatch vocalization. We don't need some kind of accounting of who was where when, and what the intentions of the recordist were, and on and on and on.

 

It's simply a matter, then, of listening to the recording and noting what is in it. 

 

Why are you unable to do that? What is preventing you from listening to the recording and noticing what is in it? 

 

It's obvious that there is speech in that recording.

 

Can you not hear it? 

I can hear it, sure. But I don't see it as proof of language. I see it as evidence.

 

But I am also well aware, as audio is my specialty, that our ear/brain systems work to find a pattern in the noise, not unlike how our eye/brain system are wired to see faces. So a lot more evidence would have to occur before this could be accepted as proof. IOW what I think is that the creature that made this sound (if a BF) may not have had any idea that it means something to someone that speaks English. That is to say it was a sound the creature made that just happens to have the uncanny quality of sounding like something familiar. Until you hear more such phrases, and associated with something else that puts it into context such that we know the creature said something and meant for it to sound that way in the proper context, then we know that they have language. Until then, we have to assume that they do not, although clearly they have the vocal abilities, for whatever that is worth.

 

I have no doubt that they could be taught, since they apparently can already make the sounds. Let's just hope they never sort out what to do with a gun!

[JDL]

There has always been the debate on which is the biggest rabit hole Norse. Being human and not forming large villages and building bonfires or being an 800 pound biped with zero sense of self engaging in rock wars with humans, raiding their freezers and has never been dropped and brought out in the open for everyone to see in 400 years.  They both make it seem unlikely to have been so successful without fail at hiding from science without help from us, either through scepticism and denial or they've been found many times and covered up.

 

I doubt we would deny their existence (with body in hand) if it didn't violate the sanctity of humanity and what it is to be human.

 

^What he said.  Human will some day be redefined, again.

 

I've always viewed them as a human species that selected for physical survivability over technological superiority.  Without intending to offend, or to suggest that this actually happened, imagine that in some past culture, it was the practice to abandon children that weren't quite up to speed (perhaps due to interbreeding with an archaic hominid).  Imagine that some of these survived, without the benefit of technology, and procreated, despite the fact that they were regularly driven off by more advanced humans, and so on for centuries and millennia.

 

Unlikely, but not so outlandish as to be regarded as impossible.

[southernyahoo]

^^^^^^

Your not listening to what leaf talker is saying......he is going for option number three. They have villages and fire and tools, etc, etc.

And that's what I find absurd.

 

Oh I read what he or she said, and don't know who all Leaftalker is in contact with. I can say that I've heard and recorded vocalizations containing the vowel sounds I often speak of that were musical-like and repeating a word or short phrase several times. It might be a stretch to say it was singing, but I wouldn't put that past some animals as we do call some bird sounds "songs" on occasion. A tool can be as simple as a pounding stone or a club and If your hands are tough enough to tear flesh then making a hand ax or cutting tool might never occur to you. A village would have to be a very obscure place or it would be found eventually. I do understand that when you have a vision of bigfoot as a pure animal that all this seems absurd but if they speak it does open the door to culture and these things are possible.

 

Some of the most convincing sounds as speech is still the Sierra sounds chatter like this collection I made from whats available online. I don't like to call it chatter because like Scott Nelson, I think there are too many earmarks here of true speech and an attempt to communicate with that mode to say that they don't have it if it is Sasquatch. It's definitely not like any sounds you'll ever hear from a known non-human ape and much more like us.

 

SS Chatter.wav