Neanderthals hybrids much older than thought

[norseman]

 

[Chim Chim]

No telling what our ancient ancestors were up to but it’s safe to assume they were just as licentious as modern humans.

[NorCalWitness]

[Doodler]

Surely there were many hybridization events over the millennia our two lines covered. If some people can have Neanderthal DNA today, I do, did they ever even die out?

[Chim Chim]

As a distinct species, yes.  But then that calls into question what exactly is a modern human, and that can vary due to hybridization.  I like to tell people I'm mostly human. 

[guyzonthropus]

Well, I'm pretty sure the evolution of the sex monkey has more than a few lurid episodes of hybridization, not only amongst those still in Africa , but along the paths of the exodus as well, both northerly and eastward. And rather than singular migrations it surely must have been a nearly continuous outflow of any number of hominid species present at a given time. And as the species shifted, they would no doubt encounter remnant populations of previous groups that had settled along the way while others of these previous groups continued outward and beyond. And more than likely, hybridization was an ongoing occurrence along the routes. 

There's the evidence of an ecosystem akin to the African Savannah up in the steps of Eurasia replete with a wide variety of migratory hoovestock which could have very well fed a growing population of early hominids until it died off or was hunted out of existence.

The fossil record is so very incomplete, so there's little likelihood that we'll find evidence of all the various forms of hominids,nor a sufficient amount to begin to recognize the transitional hybrid forms which themselves may have led to new species still waiting to be found.

And then there's the transformation of those that became H.floresiensis, or which there is no linking evidence, yet as a member of Homo, it's unlikey they started out at so diminutive a size, but rather reduced their stature over time as a result of insular living.

tory

But all in all, I think it's a pretty safe assumption to think there was a LOT of hybridization  going on across the migratory routes, with most of the "outliers" genetic contributions simply getting integrated into the whole.

Above, Chim Chim asked after all what is a modern human? Perhaps far more of a composite of previous forms than we 're comfortable admitting. Once the basic format was laid out and interbreeding proved viable, nature kinda went off experimenting, trying out different combinations, finally reaching a versatile and highly adaptable "species"  which then integrated(sexed into genetic extinction)the few remaining forms unable to effectively compete yet still ( "hey baby!" ) walking upright!

[xspider1]

It was just recently thought to be 80,000 years ago when Neanderthals met Sapiens, now it's 370,000 years ago??  Gotta love it when Science is so spot on over the years.   

 

We clearly have no definitive grasp regarding the evolution of Humans so; it's odd that anyone would be convinced that uncategorized Apes can't exist today, when we still don't even know what We are, or where we came from.

Edited November 7, 2023 by xspider1

[Catmandoo]

I recall the trait of 'red hair' as being from Neanderthals. Lots of zug-zug through the years.

[guyzonthropus]

Well the science is all based on the available data at hand, and if what you have shows the earliest KNOWN interaction to be 80,000 years ago, then that's what you go with. If later down the line you discover evidence that pushes that back another 300,000 years  you make that known, adjust the models and timelines, work out the possibilities and ramifications and go on from there. Sure, it'd be swelli if the fossil record was complete and absolute, and lying somewhere exposed in a chronological manner so we could easily see who we is and who we aint(baby) but that's just not the case. Every new find holds the potential to rewrite nearly the whole book, or rearrange the chapters. It does demonstrate how there are many paths to the same result even if only one is right! 

Science isn't perfect, nor is it absolute, but it never claims to be. It differed from other systems in that it doesn't claim to hold the absolute divine knowledge that can't be questioned or contradicted, but rather a progressively more complex model that is continuously modified and improved, integrating ever more elements in networks of interaction and effect reflecting ever more grace in its expression. It's a dynamic model rather than a static doctrine.

Edited November 7, 2023 by guyzonthropus

[Incorrigible1]

1 hour ago, xspider1 said:

It was just recently thought to be 80,000 years ago when Neanderthals met Sapiens, now it's 370,000 years ago??  Gotta love it when Science is so spot on over the years.   

 

We clearly have no definitive grasp regarding the evolution of Humans so; it's odd that anyone would be convinced that uncategorized Apes can't exist today, when we still don't even know what We are, or where we came from.

 

I'm curious: Do you expect your questions to be easily answered?

[Huntster]

5 hours ago, Incorrigible1 said:

 

I'm curious: Do you expect your questions to be easily answered?

 

I'm curious..........What happens when you don't have any questions because you don't trust those who desperately want to answer them?

[Twist]

Then we spin into an oblivion of no answers.  Aka, the dark ages.  

[Huntster]

1 hour ago, Twist said:

Then we spin into an oblivion of no answers.  Aka, the dark ages.  

 

Dark Ages.......like between the Fall of Rome and the Renaissance?

[MIB]

20 hours ago, xspider1 said:

It was just recently thought to be 80,000 years ago when Neanderthals met Sapiens, now it's 370,000 years ago??

 

They're moving the goalposts regarding Homo sapiens with this because the accepted range of dates for our arrival is 200,000 to 300,000 years .. younger than this 370,000 year old mixing. 

[norseman]

On 11/6/2023 at 10:47 PM, xspider1 said:

It was just recently thought to be 80,000 years ago when Neanderthals met Sapiens, now it's 370,000 years ago??  Gotta love it when Science is so spot on over the years.   

 

We clearly have no definitive grasp regarding the evolution of Humans so; it's odd that anyone would be convinced that uncategorized Apes can't exist today, when we still don't even know what We are, or where we came from.

Advancements in DNA research.