Skeptic's Answer To Ketchum's Dna Testing

[Guest]

Because primates NEVER go 4x4...

I could post a proverbial zillion pictures of other primates doing just that, including chimanzees, which are also genus Homo.

For someone claiming scientific credentials, you're not very good at this, Sas.

Critics have "panned" this post of yours Mulder, as explosive to ironometers everywhere.

So if I walk on all fours which even I am perfectly capable of doing, I am not in the genus Homo?

Of course you are. But if going 4X4 is actually faster for you than bipedal locomotion in certain circumstances, then that implies a deviation in skeletal morphology that is inconsistent with other members of the genus Homo. If a hominin's arms are so long and robust that some form of knuckle walking helps provide a burst of speed superior to that provided by running bipedally, then I would argue that the creatures does not belong in the genus Homo.

Same with foot structure. To my knowledge, all Homo for which we have descriptions of foot structure show a rigid foot with an arch. While some folk's arches are better developed that others', none of us show mid-tarsal breaks like we see in the feet of chimps. (If I'm wrong about this, I'll happily concede the point.)

Thus, a DNA analysis that places the sample within the genus Homo raises a lot of questions about some things people think they know about bigfoot. The use of stone tools in our genus, and the lack of evidence for this among bigfoot, is another example.

[Guest]

Critics have "panned" this post of yours Mulder, as explosive to ironometers everywhere.

Excuse me, I slightly misspoke...I keep forgetting about the new layers of designation:

Chimpanzees and humans are both of the Family: Hominidae Subfamily: Homininae Tribe: Hominini, along with humans. Still very close relatives genetically speaking.

Of course you are. But if going 4X4 is actually faster for you than bipedal locomotion in certain circumstances, then that implies a deviation in skeletal morphology that is inconsistent with other members of the genus Homo. If a hominin's arms are so long and robust that some form of knuckle walking helps provide a burst of speed superior to that provided by running bipedally, then I would argue that the creatures does not belong in the genus Homo.

Same with foot structure. To my knowledge, all Homo for which we have descriptions of foot structure show a rigid foot with an arch. While some folk's arches are better developed that others', none of us show mid-tarsal breaks like we see in the feet of chimps. (If I'm wrong about this, I'll happily concede the point.)

You know, Sas, there's a reason why the putative BF DNA is it's own separate group, and not said to be fully human OR chimp/whatever.

A mixture of characteristics is to be expected in such a case

Thus, a DNA analysis that places the sample within the genus Homo raises a lot of questions about some things people think they know about bigfoot. The use of stone tools in our genus, and the lack of evidence for this among bigfoot, is another example.

One obvious point: we developed tool use to replace capabilities lost during our development. BF are much more physically capable than we are, and their need for tool use would be less or absent.

Again, not unexpected.

[Guest]

chimanzees, which are also genus Homo.

Pan troglodytes (common chimpanzee) are from the genus Pan which also include Pan paniscus (Bonobo)

Same with foot structure. To my knowledge, all Homo for which we have descriptions of foot structure show a rigid foot with an arch. While some folk's arches are better developed that others', none of us show mid-tarsal breaks like we see in the feet of chimps. (If I'm wrong about this, I'll happily concede the point.)

Thus, a DNA analysis that places the sample within the genus Homo raises a lot of questions about some things people think they know about bigfoot. The use of stone tools in our genus, and the lack of evidence for this among bigfoot, is another example.

Personal I agree one of the differnents between the genus Homo and the genus Pan is that the genus Homo have a lantuide arch where the genus Pan have a Mid tarsal break it is one of the many differnts that set the two genus a part.

Edited November 11, 2011 by Jeff Albertson

[kitakaze]

Because primates NEVER go 4x4...

I could post a proverbial zillion pictures of other primates doing just that, including chimanzees, which are also genus Homo.

For someone claiming scientific credentials, you're not very good at this, Sas.

Woooooowwww...

It even got plussed. Only in Bigfootery could a statement so fail get respect like that. Whopper of the week. Somebody frame that, make a sig, something. Ironometer neutron blast, thread now radioactive with gamma fail.

[Guest]

Excuse me, I slightly misspoke...I keep forgetting about the new layers of designation:

Chimpanzees and humans are both of the Family: Hominidae Subfamily: Homininae Tribe: Hominini, along with humans. Still very close relatives genetically speaking.

New? Homo was described at least as early as 1758 and Pan in 1816.

You slightly misspoke when you publicly insulted me for something about which you were in error? And then you backpedal in your response this gibberish about "new layers of designation?" This from someone who has oft accused me of intellectual dishonesty?

This has been entertaining for me Mulder, and I hope enlightening for other readers of the BFF. Thank you for playing.

[Guest]

I made a slight error based on changing classifications (the modern method has more levels and such) and corrected myself once the error was pointed out.

That is being intellectually HONEST, not dishonest. If I had done it the Skeptical way, I would have just ignored the error or insisted it was not in fact one.

My honest mistake doesn't in any way validate your deliberate abuses of argumentation.

Edited November 12, 2011 by Art1972
name calling/ "hyenas"

[Guest]

I made a slight error based on changing classifications (the modern method has more levels and such) and corrected myself once the error was pointed out.

That is being intellectually HONEST, not dishonest. If I had done it the Skeptical way, I would have just ignored the error or insisted it was not in fact one.

But you hyenas just keep on cackling. My honest mistake doesn't in any way validate your deliberate abuses of argumentation.

Mulder I Personaly apologize if you fell diliberately abuse, that is not my honest attention. It is just personally I don't get your statement. "I made a slight error based on changing classifications and corrected myself once the error was pointed out." The mistake that was pointed out was not a new change to the taxonomy system. So it made me wonder on your postion of Bigfoot. Do you think that Bigfoot is in the genus Homo? or is it your postion that Bigfoot is in between the the genus Pan and Homo? (which would be a new genus most likely) Do you think that Pan trogodytes (comman chimpanzees) are in the genus Homo not Pan? If you could clear up definition of words we can have a discussion like adults about Bigfoot and the Dna probaply outcome. Because it seem to me but not sure that we hold different views about Bigfoot and the possiblt DNA results.It would be nice to see the oppiside view that I think you have. If you want to continue the topic please clear up the confusion on the genus so I can make sure where you stand to write a replay, thank you.

Edited November 11, 2011 by Jeff Albertson

[southernyahoo]

All true, but to be fair, the DNA-proof-of-hominid thing won't tell us which bigfoot is the real one. For instance, does a "human" bigfoot make Patty more or less plausible? Does a human bigfoot make "samurai chatter" more plausible, and howling at the moon less plausible? Does a human bigfoot rule out the 12-footers? Here's a tough one: mid-tarsal break. DNA evidence that places bigfoot in Homo makes Meldrum's mid-tarsal break hypothesis far less likely. A personal favorite of mine, 4X4 mode, is clearly out the window with a human bigfoot.

There would still be many questions to address with the bigfoots-are-humans-via-DNA analysis scenario. All would be answered if somebody just hauled one in.

Your personal favorite may not be so diagnostic as a non-human trait.

Quadrupedal locomotion seems to be a an exercise in fitness training these days.

[kitakaze]

Excuse me, I slightly misspoke...I keep forgetting about the new layers of designation:

I made a slight error based on changing classifications (the modern method has more levels and such) and corrected myself once the error was pointed out.

Wow.2

Under which old method were chimpanzees anywhere anytime and in any place ever considered and accepted to be in the genus Homo?

That was one of the most awesome Bigfoot enthusiast trying to chastise scientist about science fails I have ever seen. Mulder, you trying to chastise Sas about science is like a rock trying to tell a duck how to float.

[Guest Cervelo]

I wonder if he will every say these words?

Edited November 11, 2011 by Cervelo

[kitakaze]

But you hyenas just keep on cackling. My honest mistake doesn't in any way validate your deliberate abuses of argumentation.

For someone claiming scientific credentials, you're not very good at this, Sas.

Ironometer supernova. Black hole of fail created.

[Guest Jodie]

I just have one question for you all. Would the real geneticist, anthropologist, or archeaologisit please raise their hand?

[Guest parnassus]

Ironometer supernova. Black hole of fail created.

"Gee, Ward, don't you think you were a little hard on the Beaver?"

---June Cleaver

[A typical episode from Leave It to Beaver follows a misadventure committed by one or both of the boys, and ends with the culprits receiving a moral lecture from their father and a hot meal from their mother.]

Edited November 12, 2011 by parnassus

[Guest Cervelo]

Would someone please escort buzzkill Betty from the room until this is over!!! LOL

Post disclaimer:

This is intend to be humorous and in jest and most certainly at someones elses expense!

PS Jodie ya know I luv ya!

[Guest parnassus]

I just have one question for you all. Would the real geneticist, anthropologist, or archeaologisit please raise their hand?

Mulder, put that hand down!!