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Here are some photos from the post above: Chilliwack Lake looking North e

No doubt, and despite the fact that nobody can definitively say what it is there’s still no shortage of people flippantly dismissing it as a bear because the idea that it could be something else is one they don’t want to deal with. Just like Patty is a guy in a suit, sure…..

My oldest boy, Steve, called me earlier this week to see if I was heading out in the mountains this long weekend. He didn't have to twist my arm very hard to get a yes out of me. ;-) I picked him up at about noon, after my honey-do list was done, and we headed out to the north side of the Fraser River, east of Mission. We chose to go in a FSR that would bring us to a creek valley north of the one where we both had sightings about 45 years ago. The valley of our sightings has become very popular with the local 4x4 and ATV groups, and would be busy on a sunny Good Friday, hence the detour to the back side of those same mountains. Once we got to our chosen branch FSR, we had the place to ourselves, other than 1 truck headed out as we went in. The previous 3 nights had brought heavy rain via thunderstorms, so the road was a little slick, and coated the Hummer with a nice tan coat of mud, rubbing off on our pant legs every time we got in or out of the truck, and washing away any hopes of seeing tracks. Not only were no tracks spotted, no animals were seen all day, either. Every branch trail that we attempted off the main one ended in washout, mudslides, or deadfall, and in 1 case, all 3 in the same spot! By 6 PM we called it a day, and turned around for the 1 hour run back to pavement on the washboard gravel FSR main. I was blessed to be able to get out in the hills with each of my sons on subsequent weekends, It felt like our outings when they were both still teens.

I am just getting warmed up. I wanted to make a post on St. Patricks' day but was blocked by the new firewall. The M18 Motorway in Ireland has one of the famous Hawthorn Trees. Score: Fairies 1, science 0. The delay cost extra tax payer dollars and about 10 years behind schedule. The tax payers approved the extra money to move the motorway project. That Hawthorn Tree is considered to be a portal for the Kerry / Munster Fairies and the Cannaught Fairies to do battle. That portal is their link to the 'Otherworld'. Portals. Why is it portals? This forum has a lot of members in Wales, England, Scotland and Ireland. Places of deep history and high strangeness. I want to know more about the 'Grey Man' and 'Selkies'.

I've noticed that at least some predators seem to avoid traveling the same path as their prey. On cameras where I get deer, elk and moose; the bears and cougar are mostly seen crossing rather than following the trail. Blue Mountains of Washington Cinnamon Bear crossing the game trail.

While I take several trips into the dark forest each year, I have gone on only one bigfoot focused trip. Naturally, I was the new guy. But I did get to handle track castings by Bob Titmus and Bob Gimlin! We were on the East side of the Cascade Mountains in Washington State and intended to camp at a location where people have been frightened away by something throwing sticks from the woods. Forest service gates ruined that plan and we camped a few miles away. :( John Andrews showing a casting given to him by Bob Titmus.

The only keyboard warrior is you.

Lowkee, zendog or who ever you are, once you start calling people uncreative names like simpletons, your age and IQ, which is very low, begin to show through. You should take some time to grow up or go troll somewhere else. You are not well versed in the art of trolling. And so far yours is zero.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/21/us/monkeys-truck-crash-pennsylvania.html

"Brush Apes" weren't really different from Sasquatch as far as I remember the stores. However, a friend of my step-father's was on a baseball team in the 1940s which was called the Brush Apes. So it's not a new term. Certainly predates Momo in my recollections. My Samurai Chatter experience bothered me because it lasted for such a long time and on consecutive nights. On the first night I went to sleep after listening for a full hour. Just seemed odd to me that it lasted so long. Later, Mike Jay (over 30 years chasing bigfoot) assured me this was not nearly as unusual as I had thought. Still, I was raised in Missouri so I probably must see it to believe it.

There is no way you can prove it is a bear. Your testimony is as irrelevant to the conversation as anyone else's. You made the statement that it is a bear. A statement you can not back up with anything other than anecdotal evidence.

Those are some pretty horse, and nice pictures.... They don't mean diddly. Too many old timers here do this. Rather than evidence to back their position, look at all this evidence of what a big bad outsdoors guy I am, so I must be right. Its not a sasquatch, it never was. Its a bear at a bear feeding station, in an odd pose, doing bear stuff.

Black Jack and Joker at the ranch Scout and Joker at the snow peak cabin doing work for the USFS Steven, Jasper, Red and Scout at ranch Red at ranch Big Red, Mary Lou and Benny in the Frank Church wilderness, Idaho

An old packer trick is to rub Vicks vapor rub in their nose. I didn’t have any with me so I tied my fleece jacket around her neck that had my sweat on it. Its mainly just time under pack saddle. Another thing that helps young mules is to mix them with old mules. The old mules will teach them with bites or kicks if they get out of line. I had a lead mule that would lift her leg going down the trail if a young mule tried to pass her. If the youngin did not take the hint? They got kicked in the chin. She was the best mule I ever owned. Bought her from the Busted Ass ranch sale in Arlee, Montana. Paid 1500 bucks for her in 96. Everyone laughed at me until it was time to throw elk quarters on and they are having a goat rodeo and my 2 mules are standing in the gut pile ears forward…… they came right off an outfitter pack string. She trained many of the young mules going forward. Suspension bridges, deer, elk, bear, high line etiquette, going down the trail. I shot her with my .44 mag when she was blind and failing in the fall one year. She would not have made it through another winter. I bawled like a baby. Hardest thing I have ever done. She was in her 30s. Her name was Mary Lou.

Guess which one didn't listen to advice and looked at the sun, today.

Lots of great info and resources here as usual. The subject hasn't gotten stagnant to me personally, however I am bored of a lot of the "production" efforts. There's only one group (small town monsters) currently turning out good content on bigfoot and it's because there's little to no fluff for viewers. You get the story then make up your own mind. As for research I kinda stopped watching every one else except the OP, Darby Orcutt, and the kid from the UK with the old world primate DNA showing up. Kinda got me out of the mindset of keeping up with the Joneses on hardware and technology and just sticking to doing what I do best, and that's tracking and ecology studies. I just go out, enjoy the wilderness, take pics, and conduct the occasional survey or official study. If your close to WV I'm open for any of y'all to come out with me anytime. I've got some updating to do over on the southern WV/ Wineberry thread. Good topic

I'm still not sure on these photos. I'm now 80% sick, mangy bear and 20% "no clue".

For whatever reason we can say they don't seem to be having an effect since they are not attracting them. If they are, they are not doing so in a way that results in people getting them on camera or having a reported sighting using them as bait. I like the idea of some scent as bait. Certain animals go into heat. That is a strategy that could be assumed to work for some animals. We all know in people (and some animals) the smell of food or cooking seems to work. We all have heard in science class how wolves came closer smell of food cooking on the fire and became domesticated dogs for the cavemen. What attracts a bigfoot? I don't know if apes are attracted to 'smells' be it pheromones or McDonalds in the garbage bin. We could assume Bigfoot might be more likely to be attracted to what we might be or at least what attracts a Gorilla, but we can't really know. Just guess. All things need to eat sleep mate and so on. Using a smell in a smart way - assuming we know the smell- seems like a reasonable idea. The trick will be to 1) get the right smell 2) have it close enough to enough subjects to lure at least one in. 3) have a camera ready and able when the animal arrives. I remember a Bigfoot show on TV where the person played a set of drums in the woods hoping to make bigfoot 'curious' Not the worst idea. My take would be food attracts people and other animals. Even if I eat, I still notice my stomach rumbles when the neighbor is cooking on the grill or popping popcorn. At the end of the day Dr. Hannible Lecter sums it up well in Silence of the Lambs: Hannibal Lecter: "First principles, Clarice. Simplicity. Read Marcus Aurelius. Of each particular thing ask: what is it in itself? What is its nature? What does he do, this man you seek? In this way, if we could know what Bigfoot likes and provide it to him/her we might have a chance. Clearly what we are doing isn't working or is not working well enough to accomplish a home run encounter.

The very affordable AUS 10A Cold Steel 4Max Scout gets abused by a Viking and survives! Chops, batons,tosses on spear, pounds it into stump and uses it as a step for a 255lb guy, no loosening, no deflection: $58 shipped from MidwayUSA: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1022535845?pid=865346

Actually the snail darter is not a snail. It is a fish.

Interesting thread full of good points. The wilderness is enjoyable and the last day in the woods is the worst day in the woods, hopefully there's always one more. You could spend a lifetime in the woods and never hear or see anything out of the ordinary. You could stumble from your back door too your garbage cans and spot a bigfoot in your yard. I don't think there's a way to improve the odds other than to be out there, enjoying the fresh air. As far as new innovation in the subject, and as much as he's a self aggrandizing showboater, "thinker thunker" promoting body proportion measurement of old photos and videos certainly sheds new light on old evidence. I've heard skepticism over his technique but it still holds true. Go grab a bunch of photos and measure relative length of arms, legs and torso and see what appears.

Thank you for working through it! You are amazing, and we appreciate you.

This is why I seldom "go bigfooting." Instead, I go fishing, hiking, hunting, exploring, taking pictures, whatever. Make those my first priority. Do it where there seems to be an elevated (comparatively speaking) chance of bigfoot activity, but make bigfoot .. secondary. The odds of success at those other things seems higher, high enough to keep the interest going, and "bigfoot country" is a great place to do them.

Absolutely there’s no animal on earth that is immune from being captured on a game camera. Not even the smartest like these Apes or man himself.

Well….a Chimp certainly doesn’t have much of a heel. And if they curl their toes I don’t think you could easily discern it from a paw. Unless it’s using its feet as hands.

There were two images and it was tiny. There are no other clear images of a youngster.

That's one heckuva black kettle.

I love how the tamaracks turn gold in the fall. It looks like the little Mohindra is still serving you well.

are you okay? I encourage you to find someone to talk to as you seem completely unhinged.

BoneClones.com offers 3D printed replicas of the Bossberg cripplefoot casts taken by Dr. Grover Kranz. Search for 'bigoot' to find them. Research documentation by Dr. Krantz included at no additional charge.

Nobody said it’s teaming but there’s definitely been some hairy primates running wild in Pennsylvania. In the very least Pennsylvania State Police had 4 bodies. Some folks have witnessed these and other creatures.

You’re the one that just said a chimp in the middle of Pennsylvania was nonsense? There were 4 at least at one time for sure in the same area because the Jacob creature was North from Pittsburgh and those monkeys were North West from Philadelphia.

There were 4 cynomolgus monkeys running wild in Montour County, about 150 miles northwest of Philadelphia, the State Police killed them.

So you meant to quote my posting, and then refer entirely to another person's comments.

I spent my younger years in the Northern part of the Ozark Mountains where I heard stories of Brush Apes but didn't really pay much attention to the subject. After spending most of the past 40 years in Washington State, I have had several experiences which other people would call bigfoot experiences. Most of these were while alone when hunting bear or deer. However, even after hearing Samurai Chatter, I'm not entirely convinced. I must be a terrible big footer because I'm skeptical of even my own evidence. LOL

Believers are going to believe, doubters are going to doubt, and this photo, no matter what you think about it, is not going to move the needle in either direction for anyone who has already viewed it and thought about it.

This one evidently cam from Bobo off FB.

It always was a bear. There's no doubt. All the other wishful thinking are flights of fancy

I am back to kick the hornet's nest. I was way off about the State animal procedure happening in the 90's. It was during 1970. I had to dig deep in the Catmandoo files to retrieve a few gems. I posted a comment about the date that the Skamania County Ordinance was reviewed. In 1984, April 1st was on a Sunday. Clever Commissioners had to wait until Monday, the 2nd. Besides the Skamania County Ordinance, I am aware of action in Whatcom County and Grays Harbor County. Whatcom and Grays Harbor County paperwork are aligned to a refuge-protection area, not an ESA zone. Washington's official proclamation to make Sasquatch the state monster is a good read. There is a link at the bottom of the Archives Spotlight page that will hook you up with 19 pages of proclamation notes, memos and some poems and lyrics. On page 7, they present information on the Sasquatch--Modoc Treaty. Whatcom County: https://documents.whatcomcounty.us/WebLink/DocView.aspx?dbid=0&id=3276411&page=1&cr=1 Grays Harbor County, action in this century 2022: https://www.kxro.com/grays-harbor-designated-as-a-sasquatch-protection-and-refuge-area/ Washington State Monster with a good image of Patty: https://blogs.sos.wa.gov/fromourcorner/index.php/2018/01/history-friday-washingtons-official-state-monster/ The work in the previous century was humorous, serious and they avoided the ESA arena with safety zones / refuges. Those fifth grade students in Hoquiam will probably work the forest with disposable , one-time use cameras.

Here you go Backdoc: Article: Skamania Ordinance2 Date Posted: Nov-18-2006 ORDINANCE NO. 1984-2 PARTIALLY REPEALING AND AMENDING ORDINANCE NO. 1969-01 WHEREAS, evidence continues to accumulate indicating the Possible existence within Skamania County a nocturnal primate mammal Variously described as an ape-like creature or sub-species of Homo Sapiens; and WHEREAS, legend, purported recent findings, and spoor support This possibility; and WHEREAS, this creature is generally and commonly known as “Sasquatch”, “Yeti”, “Bigfoot”, or “Giant Hairy Ape”, all of which terms may be hereinafter be used interchangeably; and WHEREAS, publicity attendant upon such real or imagined findings And other evidence have resulted in an influx of scientific investigators as well as casual hunters, most of which are armed with lethal weapons; and WHEREAS, the absence of specific national and state laws restricting the taking of specimens has created a dangerous state of affairs within this county in regard to firearms and other deadly devices used to hunt the Yeti and poses a clear and present danger to the safty of the well-being persons living or traveling within the boundries of this county as well as to the Giant Hairy Apes themselves; and WHEREAS, previous County Ordinance No. 1969-01 deemed the slaying of such creature to be a felony (punishable by 5 years in prison) and may have exceeded the jurisdictional authority of that Board of County Commissioners; now, therefore BE IT HEREBY ORDAINED BY THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS OF SKAMANIA COUNTY that a portion of Ordinance No. 1969-1, deeming the slaying of Bigfoot to be a felony punishable by 5 years in prison, is hereby repealed and in its stead the following sections are enacted: SECTION 1. Sasquatch Refuge. The Sasquatch, Yeti, Bigfoot, or Giant Hairy Ape are declared to be endangered species of Skamania County and there is hereby created a Sasquatch Refuge, the boundaries of which shall be co-extensive with the boundaries of Skamania County. SECTION 2. Crime-Penalty. From and after the passage of this ordinance the premeditated, willful, or wanton slaying of Sasquatch shall be unlawful and shall be punishable as follows: (a) If the actor is found to be guilty of such a crime with malice aforethought, such act shall be deemed a Gross Misdemeanor. (b) If the act is found to be premeditated and willful or wanton but without malice aforethought, such act shall be deemed a Misdemeanor. (c) A gross misdemeanor slaying of Sasquatch shall be punishable by 1 year in the county jail and a $1,000.00 fine, or both. (d) The slaying of Sasquatch which is deemed a misdemeanor shall be punishable by a $500.00 fine and up to 6 months in the county jail, or both. SECTION 3. Defense. In the prosecution and trail of any accused Sasquatch killer the fact that the actor is suffering from insane delusions, diminished capacity, or that the act was the product of a diseased mind, shall not be a defense. SECTION 4. Humaniod/Anthropoid. Should the Skamania County Coroner determine any victim/creature to have been humanoid the Prosecuting Attorney shall persue the case under existing laws pertaining to homicide. Should the coroner determine the victim to be an anthropoid (ape-like creature) the Prosecuting Attorney shall proceed under the terms of this ordinance. BE IT FUTHER ORDAINED that the situation existing constitutes an emergency and such this ordinance shall become effective immediately upon its’ passage. REVIEWED this 2nd day of April, 1984, and set for a public hearing on the 16th day of April, 1984, at 10:30 o’clock A.M. Note: Became law on April 16th 1984. Note that this was reviewed on April 2nd. Maybe an April Fool's joke. The first DNA sample that was sent to the FBI for analysis was submitted on April 1st. Be alert. Section 1 is fluffy foo-foo. And then there is Section 3: SECTION 3. Defense. In the prosecution and trail of any accused Sasquatch killer the fact that the actor is suffering from insane delusions, diminished capacity, or that the act was the product of a diseased mind, shall not be a defense. ( where is the fun in that? ) I would have thought that 'insane delusions', 'diminished capacity' and 'diseased mind' would cover all the bases. And section 4 deals with homicide. Don't even think of dragging the body across county lines. Back in the 90's, a warm and fuzzy attempt was made to make Sasquatch the Washington State animal / mammal. Did not fly.

On what grounds would you charge a motorist whose vehicle struck and killed a dodo, or passenger pigeon, or Carolina parakeet?

Love the topic of Bigfoot. There is a lot of evidence of them. However elusive, hope they can be verified and protected.

Logical question? Why would a governing body create laws to protect extinct species? Let's say the USFWS passes a law making it illegal to kill a T Rex? They would be the laughing stock of the world. This is not even remotely close to the subject of Bigfoot. Lets say Catmandoo is correct in his assumption that Bigfoot populations are healthy and stable. Then why would we put them in the same category as an extinct species? Here is my personal belief. If Bigfoot is discovered in say California? It is such a unique, rare and very human like animal that the knee jerk reaction will be to protect them. We have laws on the books already that protect Bigfoot such as Skamania county. If states started passing protection laws? The federal government is going to follow suit. Its going to be a media frenzy. It will be huge. Lots and lots of public pressure. No one is going to open a hunting season for them like a Bear or Deer. They are much too human like. Just like laws are passed to protect other great apes currently.

Which is just a vicious cycle. We cannot classify a species that has not been discovered. Therefore we cannot afford them any protection under the endangered species act. Or the Bureau of Indian affairs for that matter, if you prefer. Until proof is presented? They reside in the realm of Pixies and Gnomes. And no one is going to stop a freeway project or a new dam project for a Pixie or a Gnome. So right now it’s a crap shoot. With no scientific data to back up any of our conclusions.

If Patty is real? Then there is/was a population out there that produced her. There are many places that have been nuked by humanity. I.e. Puget Sound. But there are many places left untouched as well that give me hope. Time will tell. Lots of things are changing in American archeology as well for the better. The 12000 year old Clovis first theory is now officially dead.

Coyote with mange?

Welcome unlikely knot, Wend, Coyote138, and Alvan. Welcome Drwinter; I hope you had a good time at the Honobia Bigfoot Festival.

Here are some interesting impressions, and all along this lil spring fed creek, shown at the source in pic 1.....it will have water even in late summer, so it's on every critters radar. The next 2 pics were coming out of the creek area and up an incline, so only the front portion of print made contact with the ground, with push-off material on the downside of both. The next pic were some interesting over lapping impressions, Hairyman prints don't always have to be big, if that's what they are:)

Whatever they are, they're programmed like every other animal with instincts. I've seen deer do some truly stupid things, but in the woods, they know without thought when something moves. The eyes trigger the neurons to fire straight to the muscles without going through the wrinkly stuff at all. You do the same thing with snakes and spiders. It takes training to not immediately jump when surprised. I've always assumed they exist in small enough numbers, and we just aren't putting that many cameras out, and they don't have to see a camera to sense it. I've always assumed they simply freeze, study the situation, and divert around if they see, smell, hear anything unusual. I can hear a trail camera click, I can see the red illuminator, and my hearing is wrecked from decades of drumming and driving loud cars without hearing protection... But I can head the clicks. My vision is terrible, astigmatism, floaters, somewhat color blind but I can see the red lights. And if there's only a few hundred of these things, a million cameras in the woods aren't going to see one.