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Dear BFF Members, The Steering Committee, the Forum Administration Team and I want to thank you for supporting the BFF. Your generosity has put us in a very good financial situation and we want to give the surplus back to the community in a way that encourages research. I am proud to announce the first ever Bigfoot Forums Researcher of the Year contest. With your continued support, we hope to make this an annual event. You should know that this forum is entirely funded by you and nobody makes a profit, all funds go to run the BFF. Thank You Again -gigantor Researcher of the Year Contest Prize: $1,000 $1,500 Contest Purpose: To encourage Bigfoot research by awarding a $1000 $1,500 prize to the researcher (or group) who provides the best evidence that Bigfoot exists. Rules 1 ) Contestants must be BFF members. Researchers who are not BFF members and want to participate must join the BFF. 2 ) The winner must have a PayPal account in order to receive the prize. 3 ) Contestants must post a picture, audio or video of the evidence in this thread. If the evidence is in a different form, please explain how you will make it available for consideration. 4 ) The evidence you submit must have been collected by you or your group. Please be prepared to answer questions about the evidence you submit. 5 ) Evidence will be accepted until December 31, 2020 6 ) The Steering Committee will have a secret vote to nominate three finalists no later than January 7, 2021. 7 ) The BFF membership will have a public vote to choose the winner from the finalists January 8-16, 2021. 8 ) The winner will be announced January 17, 2021. 9 ) The BFF Director will decide any ties, disqualifications, misunderstanding, etc. Good Luck!

Can it be done? If so, how would one accomplish it? The first thing to know might be what does science look for in a sample? Should samples be from soil or water? Or both? What materials are needed and where would people get the materials? How much would they cost? Where would one send a sample? And there a few other questions that people have and have asked. So this thread is to explore this technology and, on a more serious tack, figure out a way to get samples from the field and have them tested. This is the basic procedure for water sampling along with some good information on materials: E-DNA USGS Field Sampling Protocols.pdf Here is a very recent article about detecting land mammals from water samples: https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/researchers-detect-land-animals-using-dna-in-nearby-water-bodies-67481 If Sasquatch is in North America, then the links show that the creature CAN be detected by taking water samples,, and how best to collect those samples to reduce the risk of Human contamination- something that has wrecked a lot of DNA in the eyes of ourselves as well as science. There are excellent ways to avoid contamination. One good question is about the type of testing to be done. Is it one where the aim is to detected ALL creatures in a given location within a general habitat? Or does one target a specific species? This is an important question because it will come down to what type of lab would need to be secured to do the testing. Some say something like a Human ancestry company but most that I hear of charge around $200 to run a sample. And while they may tell you where your DNA came from it may not tell you your a Sasquatch. This thread is to discuss what should be sampled, where, why, and then where to send the sample(s) at what cost. And maybe later on what does one do with the results should results be forthcoming. And also which would be better, finding all animals or just target one, like primates. it could depend on which is cheaper, but more importantly, which method would be best for discovering Sasquatch. This really is a thread for Dr. Meldrum, Dr. Disotell, and Dr. Mayor, so forgive me if I stumble a few times because I'm not a scientist. We could start this off by submitting suggestions for where some field sampling could be done. I know of several off the top of my head but I'll leave it to members to offer suggestions. The biggie though? I will work on finding a lab or labs to do the testing.....and start saving my money

No, I'll happily go where ever it is to verify it. Thanks to an anonymous donation, the prize is now $1500!

Yesterday Left Colville to Ione, past Sullivan lake up over Pass creek pass, Hughes meadows in Idaho (44 degrees/rain) down to Priest river, Sandpoint, Bonners Ferry and crashed last night on a FS road called Cougar ridge above Yaak river. Today Drove to Yaak, then over to Koocanusa lake, Libby Dam, Kootenai river into Libby. Currently eating ice cream. Gonna go back to Troy, go down the Bull River to Clark Fork river and then on to Lolo hot springs to go soak. More pictures to come. Its very possible to go from NE Washington to NW Montana by FS dirt roads. But past Nordman, Idaho to Bonners Ferry Idaho I dont know the way. The rivers are all swollen, it looks like spring. The massive cedars in Wa/Id line were a treat. IMG_3238.MOV

I've been a fan of Bigfoot since I was a kid, saw Boggy Creek and Six Million Dollar Man, read the Marvel Godzilla comics (he fought Yetrigar), watched Peter Cushing in the Abominable Snowman, etc. I just self-published an action-horror novel titled Yeren that features Bigfoot prominently and I wanted to try to drum up some attention. It's FREE and is available on Apple, Kobo, Barnes and Nobles, Booktopia, and more in the weeks ahead (including Amazon). If you're looking for a good summer/quarantine read, may I humbly suggest it? If you read it and like it, I hope you tell your friends about it. Either way, if you happen to take the time to read it--thank you! And I'd love to hear what you liked or what didn't work for you. I'm quiet on these boards but I do read them and I thank you all :)

Forgot the most important modification to my UTV...

Not to be rude but I think the smirks may come from English not being your native tongue and sometimes it’s hard to make out what your trying to convey. It’s not a knock on you, I appreciate your effort but I don’t always get the gist of your post. That being said I’m not the source of your smirk. As far as hiflier getting downvotes I believe that comes from his pattern of getting an idea and pushing that idea in darn near every topic and then being upset that everyone on the forum not falling in line with his idea. Seems every few months there’s a new drum to beat. Just my opinion of course.

6.14.20 - NorthWind and I met up with Oregon Coast Bigfoot (Jeffrey & Kim) for a great day in the Coast Range. We followed a game trail into the woods for about a half mile, and pulled off the country backroads at every interesting thing, but the only forest giants we found today were trees.

Instead of starting numerous general threads with basic questions regarding videos from your ytube channel, perhaps consider a dedicated archive thread in the Video forum.

A buddy and I retrieved three trail cams today and I got something on video that is crazy. It's in an area that is a honey hole, way off trail, where I've had multiple wood knocks, footprints, and more. I have to get my friend to come back out with me and do a re-enactment to gauge size. Thankfully, the trail cam has both a day-time video that shows the normal backdrop and this night-time video, from the same spot, where things happen that has me scratching my head. He's less than eager to go back because, on the way out today, he almost got nailed (within an inch or two) by the largest timber rattler I've ever seen. It's been a wild ride today. I'm eager to post both videos but will wait pending further on-site analysis and confirmation of size.

Ya Baby! Good logistics question. I have already asked the lab what they would do in our situation as far as procedures for sampling. And they already know what we're after so if I can maintain a dialogue then maybe we'll have our answers. And you know? All I've ever wanted from anyone are answers to questions. I mean, good grief, it's not like I want the Moon here. But we need specifics or else things could end up being a horrible and expensive trial and error. So how would a lab person conduct the project in the field if they were me? That's the question I left them with. It's 4th of July weekend and the lab may have the day off so I don't expect any dialogue until next week earliest. And you know me, Norseman, I'll stay with it until we have what we need to know. They also said in their responses above that "soil is a different story". We need to know that "story" as well. Hey, no one said this citizen science stuff was going to be easy, although I think it would be for normal animals. That said, what they said was that metabarcoding for ALL animals in the sample would be a good way to go as far as looking for NOTCH2NL markers. We could use some clarification on that aspect of things.

My pooch will be 13 in August- if he makes it. Melanoma and wasn't supposed to survive past last February. You'd never know it being around him. I'm amazed. still runs the beach and swims occasionally. Going camping this Sunday for ten days which he's done every year of his life. Have another trip planned in August. He may make both trips the way he's going right now. This photo is from about 6ix years ago:

You, sir, would bring a tear to my eye I probably should take this opportunity to present a couple of updates. These are responses that I have received regarding my NOTCH2NL concept: 1) "It would be a great study, but I am afraid you will need a good fresh sample of blood or tissue or bone to extract enough nDNA to sequence these genes. I read about the genes and had no other thoughts. Best of Luck. If you get an adequate sample you should try a whole genome sequencing to answer many more questions." Followed up response: "Your genes are nuclear genes, but there is a 1000+X advantage in mtDNA, so much better chance to capture in an e DNA experiment. It doesn't hurt to look, however. I do think that a well designed eDNA project involving collection of water samples could reveal an unknown primate." And this is a response from a different source. A lab in fact: ".....there are two technical issue that impacts your suggested approach. 1) Species ID approaches typically use mitochondrial DNA, as there can be dozens to hundreds of mitochondria per cell. Importantly, this means that mtDNA is at least one (but probably more) order of magnitude more common in the environmental than nuclear DNA. Given rare species, by definition, are at low density, their DNA in any given environmental sample is present in low concentration. For quantitative PCR, the limit of detection is around 1x10^-5 or 1x10^-6 nanograms per microliter. The concentration of mtDNA for rare species is typically at or below limit of detection, so we have to sample in ways to get the DNA concentration above the detection threshold. High volume filtered, technical replicates etc. We are investigating ways to reliably use nuclear DNA from environmental samples, but this isn't something we recommend at this time. 2) Environmental samples are "pools" of all the DNA present. Many different organisms and/or multiple individuals of the same organism. So you either have to target the species of interest using qPCR or you have to conduct a metabarcoding analysis, which separately analyzes each DNA strand present. As there is no qPCR assay specific to Bigfoot, metabarcoding is the only choice for water samples. [Soil is a different story] Currently, given the sequencing technology, I think you'd have to conduct meta (data), but use the NOTCH2NL marker for amplification to pull the locus of interest from the "pool" of DNA. We can process disc filters, although we recommend sterivex filters for rare DNA at low concentration." So, as you all can see, I have been trying to do my part as far as laying the groundwork, not only to find support for the idea, but to also find a facility that would be open to testing samples. Something that I'm continuing in doing because one lab may not be sufficient if any samples succeed in getting a positive result. So far there seems to be some good support for the NOTCH2NL approach. It has taken months to nail down positive responses like these. Nearly all inquiries have otherwise gone ignored.

For the most part family and friends have been more supportive than I expected. There are exceptions. Less as time passes. Probably the most problematical person of the past has .. well, not quite "come around", but finally told his own story. What it tells me is that many critics were not honest skeptics, not even honest scoftics, but rather they were terrified believers who wanted it all to go away. While things that were said were hurtful, in context, they are worthy of more pity than anger. MIB

My significant other is equally interested in the subject and believes that there is something out there. Other people are a mixed bag. Several of my friends in New Orleans were very interested in these sort of things, but I haven't found very many in South Carolina. Many of my girlfriend's family believe in it and have even had encounters. Others laugh at it. At the end of the day, who cares? As long as they are not constantly belittling you or attacking you for your interest, who cares? Several people who I know think that it is silly. And why wouldn't they? An 8 foot tall ape man living undiscovered in the 21st century? No body. Just ambiguous audio clips, blurry video, and easily hoaxed footprints. The topic is represented by the most cringe inducing people imaginable in media. Why wouldn't the average person think that it is kind of silly unless they had an experience themselves? When people look at me genuinely baffled about the subject I can only agree. I don't blame them. A lot of it doesn't make sense. Imagine that you are someone who is slightly interested in the subject. You go onto YouTube to check out some videos... and the very first thing that you come across is Matthew Johnson giving one of his unblinking and unhinged monologues about Zorth. You would walk away thinyk that the subject is crazy too. A friend of mine is considered the world's top breeder and trainer of coon hounds. He has probably spent more nights in the woods than in a bed. He constantly gives me grief about Bigfoot. He's never seen one and believes that it is impossible. But, it's in a joking and loving manner. I also bust his chops about how his wife wears the pants in the family. It's just two guys busting on each other. If you are running into people who want to belittle you in order to feel better about themselves, then you can either ignore it or punch back. "Yeah, Greg. I look for Bigfoot in my spare time. What about you? What sort of #$#@# stuff do you do in your spare time? Golf? Golf??? Golf is for $##@##. Here, let me tell you why". Finally, a lot of people who instantly start disparaging the subject do it because they know that people in general think that it is crazy. They don't want to be thought of as crazy themselves. Get a couple of beers into that same person and just wait for that "Well, there was this one weird thing that happened..." story to come out. A lot of them have had experiences with something ...they just don't want to be called crazy themselves so they don't openly talk about it.

Before I left Facebook that last time, Bear would get drunk and get on the BFO page and threaten to find and beat up habituators. It was beautiful insanity, man. Just beautiful.

What a super cool idea! I hope lots of members enter. $1,000 is great, but evidence is priceless. Everyone who gives it a go will learn something, and have some experiences they might not have had without this incentive.

Correct me if I’m wrong? I thought that was the point of E-DNA? Taking pot shots in the dark? Sullivan lake has had numerous sightings reported over the years. That would be the draw. If they are frequenting the lake on a regular basis? Maybe? I would think we could use the SSR to get us into promising areas. Look. I will be your goat. But I’m not dealing with government bureaucrats and science labs. That would be your gig. But I am more than willing to help you get off the ground by taking water samples around the PacNW? I would donate my time and fuel. I would still pack a rifle. I could ship the samples to you with labels so that we know which sample came from where. After that? It’s up to you. You have been talking about this for quite sometime. So let’s make it happen.

I have attempted to contact both. I've been trying to get scientists involved in order to acquire physical evidence (DNA). I have given a LOT of thought to detail. As far as scientists? Geneticists and primatologists. The relevant authorities won't get on board. Been trying for two years. In discussion with two PhD's currently, however. We don't have the real goods. But science can get the real goods. The trick is a Catch-22: Getting them on board to begin with. So far I have recently had a positive assessment on my conceptual DNA approach.....from a scientist. Waiting for a second opinion. Then it will be asking permission to use them as references in order to hopefully kick the concept further up the ladder.

I got out for the day on Sunday, with my daughter Andrea. It was a multi purpose trip to the East side of Harrison Lake. We took metal detectors to search old logging camps and beaches, my rifle for black bear and cougar, both open till June 15th, and camera for the money shot of Sasquatch. The metal detecting produced lots of rusty nails, some melted aluminum slag (old beer cans, probably), and 1 modern nickel. The hunting got us a close up look at a nice chubby blacktail doe, but no sign of bear or cougar, though we've had sightings of both in the past in this area. The search for Sas was fruitless, with no sign of tracks or anything else. The real adventure started at about 5:30, when a moment of inattention on my part got the right rear tire of the SUV over the edge of the trail, putting me in a position where I had no traction to go forward uphill, and no option to go backward downhill, as that would roll the car onto its side in the ditch. After 30 or 40 minutes of trying to use rocks and logs to make a way out, we gave up on that, and walked a km back down the trail to the main logging road to flag down a 4x4 to help pull the car 3' forward to get me back on the trail. After 45 minutes with no traffic, we started walking west from the km 43 marker. At km 35, we finally found a dirt biker with a Garmin InReach gps with satellite text capability, and I sent messages explaining our predicament to my son, who has a 4x4, and to fellow BFFer MagniAesir, who also knows the area and has a 4x4. Before either could reply, a couple in a Toyata Tundra 4x4 came along, and offered to help out. I sent follow up texts to let my son and Magni know that we now had help, and off we went to rescue my SUV. The actual pull out was very easy, and both our rescuer and I got turned around to head back down the trail. I offered to buy the couple a 24 case of beer, a bottle of whiskey, or at least pay them for their time and gas, but they refused to take anything for their help. By the time we were back on the main logging road, with 43 km still to go to reach pavement, it was fully dark, at 10PM. At km 9, we finally got a cell signal, and I was able to call Magni and my son to let them know we were safely headed home. At that point, my son answered that he was already coming up the logging road, at km 6, so we met him just a few minutes later. We finally got onto pavement in another 10 minutes, and started home, stopping at a Tim Hortons in Rosedale for BLTs and hot choclates, since Andrea and I hadn't eaten since about 2. We finally got home at 1:00AM, completely beat, and legs aching from the long hike. I'm going to Cabella's this week to buy an InReach unit, since a text out sure beats a long hike on a dark logging road! I didn't think to get a photo of my driving boo-boo, but I did get a few shots of the location during the day:

Hahaha... me too. I remember Steve Kulls as a moderator, he gave me several warning points Rictor was also here for a while, he was ok when he was here. There is some original artwork he drew around here somewhere.

Has anyone seen a mention of the NA man that was tested for DNA by a relative? A relative tested him using Ancestry.com. Anyway I cannot remember his tribe but he was full blooded and his ancestry showed markers that took him back to the original peoples that supposedly made the Bearing crossing. I was wondering what would happen if one of us got a good DNA sample of BF, and simply submitted it to one of these ancestral DNA processors. I had mine done by a National Geographic lab . The testing lab would process it without discrimination. The results certainly might be tossed out but might show something as remarkable is if Zana were tested. It would be very interesting to see what the results would be.

Jonah Ventures has 'diet test kits ' that are used for herbivores and carnivores. Worth a look. Send in a scat sample! Turdology is looking up. They take PayPal.

So when I capture a live BF, I will actually need to bring him/her by your house first for a meet and greet? Great idea, this is going to be interesting to say the least...

Isn't there kind of a famous name for your area? A "something" Triangle? Seems to me a saw a book somewhere about the strangeness that goes on around there. And while "environmental" DNA sounds like it would be complicated? It's just DNA that has fallen off or otherwise got left behind by just about every living thing that lives or has visited an area of land, or that lives in a stream or other body of water like a pond, lake, or wetland habitat. Soil and water samples are taken and all of that DNA is then analyzed in a lab in order to know what creatures are or were present "out there". The idea here is to use the technology by taking soil or water samples ourselves to hunt for Bigfoot DNA. I'm trying to find a lab or two that will process the samples and we've been discussing the materials we need (that won't cost an arm and a leg) to extract field samples from the environmental habitats for testing in the labs. @Madison5716 and @NorthWind Hey, you two are just great. Thanks

If anyone else, like me, feels a little out of the loop in understanding environmental DNA, I found a good primer on the topic, with scientific citations: sciencedirect.com, search box “Environmental DNA – An emerging tool in conservation for monitoring past and present biodiversity” I had to create an account, but that doesn’t seem like a problem. Happy to see the use of the word “cryptid” in the abstract of the article! Sorry, I couldn’t get a hot link to it to share here. I would be glad to get samples of water from the Hockomock Swamp in SE Mass., known as a cryptic hotspot, but sightings are old at this point.

I listen occasionally to podcasts and YouTube story channels, but it's usually the same thing, over and over. While the stories give an idea of what typical bigfoot behaviors are, I much prefer having my boots on the ground! It's more fun having a boring, nothing-to-see-here-move-along day in the woods than listen to stories of other people having adventures and experiences for the same amount of time!

I'm in. This fall when we find prints (yes, I am that confident), NorthWind and I will contribute. Sounds like an awesome plan!

Yes, I own one, and use it whenever I go out. Change to fresh batteries before going to bed, as standard AA's will only last about 5 1/2 - 6 hours. 2700 mah's will probably 6-7 hours. You may want to explore the idea of building a battery box for longer recording times. Do not record in Stamina mode. Although it claims to extend the life of the batteries, it records in the lowest quality format, and you'll have a very high noise floor. If you want to figure out the direction of your audio, arrange the built-in mics at 120-degrees, and put the camera on a small tripod, with the mics facing north. That way you can figure out, when playing it back through headphones, east, west, north, south.

If it were as simple as human DNA being to degraded. Then all other BF samples wouldn’t be tossed out as contamination. I find it hard to believe that ppl of Disotells knowledge simply over looked this and I doubt that all Hilan Results were to degraded. Cant jump to conclusions here on the subject of DNA based on what was or wasn’t said by a scientist. Serious research needs to be done on the subjects of A) Can EDNA produce results that could show the right gene. B.) Who and how can the gene be identified by. Both questions that should be answered before a grassroots movement has ppl spending money on collection kits.

@hiflier Lets figure out the details and procedures first. We'll figure out the money part later, I'll help with that.

First off, I always preface this by saying that I live in a glass house, in a glass town, on a glass planet as far as High Strangeness goes. I believe that some pretty far out there things are possible, so I try not to immediately dismiss other people's beliefs. Just because I don't see how it is possible doesn't mean that it is impossible. That being said, I honestly don't know what is going on with this whole Dogman craze. That recent Facebook video is intriguing, but upright walking canines? If there is something there, I would think that it either a more aggressive Bigfoot with a muzzled face or something that is rooted in a more supernatural realm. The constant reports of the dog-like legs kind of rule out Bigfoot, though. A lot of the stories give me the impression that the people involved are LARPING, but the same thing could be said about Bigfoot enthusiasts. I have personally never had an experience that I thought was best explained by the existence of an upright canine, but I have also never been abducted by 'aliens' yet I believe in that phenomenon.

We are going to have to allow Hiflier the time to find a lab willing to do E DNA samples. And enough time to raise the money to pay for the lab. And the chosen lab is going to have to line researchers out on protocol for taking the samples. I think the Go fund me idea is an awesome idea. I personally would like to see samples go through a transparent chain of custody WITH results posted in the end. For example. ///////////////////////////////////// Sample # 2367 Researcher: Bob Smith Contact info: Address/Phone number Date: 10-25-20 Location: Pend Oreille River, Lat/Long Comments: I have recorded audio of whoops in this location before. SSR has reported 3 sightings within a 10 mile radius over the past 5 years. Sample # 2367 Collector: Bill Jones Contact info: Address/Phone number Date: 11-2-20 Lab: Horizon Laboratories Inc. 12345 Pine Ave, Denver, Co 76543 Comments: Sent off Fed Ex ground today. Sample # 2367 Researcher: Bob Smith Date: 12-16-20 Lab: Horizon Laboratories Inc. 12345 Pine Ave, Denver, Co 76543 Lab Results: Rainbow Trout, Northern Pike, Beaver, Black Bear, Whitetail Deer. Comments: Did not sequence plant life per request. /////////////////////////////////////////// I think many researchers get disillusioned over the years by sending in samples only to not hear anything back at all. I think in order to keep people engaged people need feedback. Even if it’s not the target species we are looking for. People will feel better about their work if they see results. If this technology is as good as they say it is? Using the grass roots approach? Hundreds of researchers submitting hundreds of samples? Is going to cover a large chunk of real estate fairly quickly. If the beast exists? It cannot hide forever. And anyone can put on some rubber gloves and collect a water sample. It’s not rocket science. We have been stagnate for awhile now. Obviously what I’m doing isn’t working. This would be a new powerful tool for researchers to put in their tool belt. Who knows? We may get lucky!

This is what I'm talking about. I'm assuming you'd be willing if someone came up with a report an hour or two from you with a BF in a creek with a pretty good idea of where the creek is in an area. I doubt you'd be willing to go into what would be assumed habitat and start sampling random creeks and lakes. IMO - the report list is the first step to making this a realistic project if we want everyone to chip in. I'd be willing to do help as well if we had a report that fit the criteria I laid out above.

If NEEDED? LOL, of course they will be needed, Twist. So cool that you'd be willing to do that. And I can't go further without thanking @norseman for initiating this. I have to say, the man has quite bit of some pull here Kudos to him for leading things off. He's a born-successful hunter and for him to endorse this says a lot. This is BIG folks. You had mentioned in the past , along with others, that you would do that. You and the rest need to definitely read this if you haven't already: https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/researchers-detect-land-animals-using-dna-in-nearby-water-bodies-67481 because, as I've said many times, I think water samples will be the way to go on the basis that what ends up in the water comes from everything living around the water as well as what lives in it. Soil sample are okay but My gut tells me they are limited to something that has passed through a small area. Water on the other hand drains large areas and gets rain runoff. That makes water a natural DNA collector covering a lot of territory.

Upvote for you. I'd not play the game of sitting on suggestions. If you want to move this forward and catch attention of people who are out and might be willing to take samples and send them - I'd make this seem as cut and dry and easy as possible and not play to forum politics/etiquette. It's the same advice I gave months ago. What about soliciting help to gather all recent reports (under 5 years) where there are reports of a Sasquatch in, or interacting with, a body of water. Post the reports and let's see how many people are close and willing to go out and sample those bodies of water as close to sighting areas as possible. Theory would be that they might still be around and still interacting with those same bodies of water. If so, their unique DNA would show up according to everything I've read from you. It could be a good start to getting a decent number of samples going. Once we have the reports listed and, if there seems to be some potential likelihood of success with reports matched to volunteers to take samples - let's start a GoFundMe and members can donate for the cost of analysis for retrieved samples. Just an idea....

Great stories in this thread! In most of my decades of exploring the woods, I have usually been alone. Have never gotten lost and never been in danger. Knock on wood. But now that I'm older and not in as good of shape, and a bit smarter, I still go out alone, but am much better prepared than I was before. The last few years I've had a great companion; a 100lb great dane/lab mix. But, he's nearly 14 and has really gotten bad arthritis the past few months. I took him out mushroom hunting a couple of months ago and he was barely able to make it back to the rig. So now I'm alone, again. When I first started dating my current girlfriend, she said she loved the outdoors and hiking. I think we've gone three times the past year and she refuses to tent camp, lol. Couple of years ago, me and my dog loaded up an old pop-up camper I had restored and found a nice secluded spot in Idaho. Got all situated and firewood ready and decided to go for a short hike up the draw that we were camped at the base of. My dog had declined to wander outside of camp and stayed close to the fire, which is odd for him. About 50 yards up the game trail, my dog started going nuts, sniffing all around and marking territory every few feet. I looked on the trail and found a very fresh pile of wolf scat and some prints. Apparently, at least one wolf came down and scouted us out while I was busy setting up camp. We only did a short hike and my dog was not cool with being more than 20 yards from me at all times.

Lot's of great advice and replies in this thread. I really don't consider Bigfoot a physical threat since I seem to recall very few incidents of them harming humans, so my sidearms/long arms for the woods are geared more towards the four-legged threats found in the Idaho woods. But, I'm just a casual Bigfoot enthusiast and may be naive regarding the threat they represent. I would never shoot one that was not a threat, even if it mean't instant fame and fortune. That being said, I am often in areas with lots of wolves, black bears, cougars, and ill-tempered moose, so I take my woods guns rather seriously. My favorite sidearm is my Glock G29 10mm compact. Though I have modified it a bit to maximize effectiveness. It now has a KKM 4.5" barrel for ease of mind in shooting hotter hardcast lead bullets and greater velocity. I also added Dawson fiber optic sights and an X-Grip adapter so I can use the Glock G20 15-round magazines. Next is my grizzly pistol, which is a Ruger Super Blackhawk Bisley model in .45 Colt. I cast my own hardcast lead bullets and load my own ammo and use a 300 grain bullet with around an 18 BN hardness. I rarely carry it anymore since the Glock is so much handier and I'm rarely in Grizzly territory. I also built a couple of long arms for use as camp guns and short hiking guns. The first I built was a Marlin 1894 carbine in .45 Colt that used the same loads as my Ruger pistol. I added a picatinny rail for a light, comfy sling, red dot sight, and a stock pouch with extra rounds. It sort of triggers the lever gun purists, but I built it as an effective woods gun and I like it. Next, I found the Marlin not 100% reliable in feeding and a bit heavy, so I built an AR-15 chambered in .450 Bushmaster. I adopted the same sling, optics, and light from the Marlin. Also added an extra mag pouch. But, it turned out nearly as heavy as the marlin, but it's got a bit more power, has been 100% reliable, and I love it! Picture of my Woods cartridges, all homemade, lol. Though the .45-70 isn't technically a "woods" gun, it is a Winchester 1885 high wall single-shot buffalo rifle I used in matches when I lived in Arizona. From left to right: .45-70 govt., .450 Bushmaster, .45 Colt, 10mm, and .40 S&W.

"Ditto".

Are you not then favoring what expedition Bigfoot did with their so called advance data algorithm. Like a complete data analysis of all the sightings and then coming down to a prediction to a predetermined area. Which I feel that is very meaning less. You can take a plane in a given area and place it in a glide with a thermos and the maybe be able to find a place that they might be. Mark that area and hike in silently and hope to be able to get video of your find. But good luck with that. It is either they are going to find you or you are going to run into them by accident. . If they were so easy to predict their movement there would be a conversation that we are having right now. This discussion would be done with. Like I have said in my previous thread . we have been doing this since the 50's and have tried everything that could have been tried. Nothing to this day has brought nothing that proves these creatures exist as an actual flesh and blood. Yet the math does not lie that they do not exist. The accounts can account for that. The truth is there in peoples faces but refuse to accept it. The problem is that there might not be that many. The few that there are just wonder from one place to anther,. Nomadic yes but few. Staying hidden in from us. They choose who they want to respond to. If they become aggressive then you have to think that they might not have a choice. You have to imagine how we would be if our survival was at stake how we would be. I can say one thing if my life was at stake I be doing what ever it takes to stay alive. We have a brain so we have understanding . So if they are part human then they must have some understanding of them selves. You few can shun me but I really do not care. I know what I have encountered and I know people who have encountered the same that I have. I am still going to speak out. My word means just as much as any ones else word does. I will not back off. I do not need a tarpit to deal with what I believe in and have encountered. No opinion just fact.

Here is how we should be looking at this... 1) Physical evidence Hair, Scat, EDna, Dna, bones, flesh, teeth, etc 2) Trace evidence Footprints, teeth marks, audio recordings, video recordings, tree structures, slide marks, body casts, etc 3) Witness reports sightings, observed trackways, heard unexplained sounds, etc 4) Hoaxing trackways, video recordings, audio recording, etc Basically we are stuck with 2, 3 and unfortunately 4? And we are trying to get to number1! 3 has little value. 2 has some value in getting us to number 1. And as of yet no one has produced number 1 in an acceptable way to science. Number 4 plagues us because some people think it’s funny, some people thinks it will strengthen their cause and some people want to cash in. In the end? It’s number 4 that hurts us the most and why science doesn’t take the subject seriously. There may be another category. 5) Conspiracy Some people feel like the government is covering it up. Not unlike UFO’s.... which now seems to be the case after the Navy admitted that UFO’s are real. After debunking them for 60 years. Will at some point in the future will we see the government admit Bigfoot is real? That secretly they have been studying them all along? Is this an avenue we should pursue? And the last category that has to be addressed is this. 6) Non existence Either it went extinct or never existed at all. We are all wrong. The tracks I saw where caused by x,y or z. Witnesses are seeing bears while intoxicated. Etc, Etc, etc. Not a pleasant proposition to consider. And yet we seem to have serious problems getting to 1. Logically should it be this hard? If there is truly a healthy breeding population of large primates living in our forests? All species get sick, wounded, die. All species leave behind feces, blood, saliva. It cannot be helped. So we need to self examine WHY we are not succeeding. Is it because we are seeking something that isn’t truly there? Or are we incompetent? Are we focused on the smoke and not the fire? Is the government torpedoing our efforts? Maybe Zimmer’s categories can play a role here. Disseminating different classes of information. But in biology this takes a back seat to physical evidence. Just like in a court of law? DNA trumps a contradiction by a eye witness account.

Hiflier, All I’m hearing is you playing the victim. Shadowborn made a comment about why he gets smirk emojis and you get downvotes. I gave him my opinion on why that happens. It turned into this. I’m done discussing it because all I see are wall of texts that always move goal posts and somehow circle back to you harping on E-DNA. Good day sir.

Well which is it hiflier, in one post I do not bring up alternative methods to yours and the next you say I bring up a body on a slab often? Do I or do I not have an alternative option to your method of E-DNA? You say I bring it up quit a bit, do you want me to start looking at my total posts vs posts about a body on a slab vs. your total posts vs. E-DNA? I think you’ll be surprised how much less I harp on my method compared to you.

Yes, we had a great time. A big shout out and thanks to OCB for having us, and tolerating my humor.

Hey Wolfjewel…...good to hear from you:) Yeah, I never kill the snakes, and I am very good at identifying them, if I get bit, then that snake dies, but not creating any negative 'snake=karma' for now, an old Indian guy taught me that. First, my wolf Lulu likes your name, she's my hiking buddy for 9 years now, and unlike most dogs, she doesn't mind searching for the hairyman, plus she has the nose to find them, in fact....she might have rolled in fresh BT poo the other day, huge pile, and took me 15 minutes to scrub it off, what a weird smell too...….this kind of research I can do without! Here are some pics from the weekend; Pics 1-3 : A very fresh Sotol chew, wasn't there the day before, I know they love to scrap the tender white meat off the shoots with their teeth, but I find there chews too, are the big males doing that? They are always big, wouldn't want that in my mouth, lol, this one is in a baggie a still wet with spit. Pics 4 & 5 : Double prints from a trackway, big & juvie it appears to be Pics 6-11 : More big and small prints Last : For you Wolfjewel…..Lulu says "Howdy"

Been reading this thread and there are some very good points being brought out. But IMHO we are in this situation today because of an almost palpable avoidance of pursuing the truth. I read every thread and post carefully, sometimes I'll read them two or three times. The consistent undercurrent is that people will only take this subject so far and then back off. Maybe THAT dynamic should be a part of what gets discussed here.

Rlee If anyone ever did find a body in the woods I am pretty sure no one would even hear about it. It would be so shot down by actors acting as posters making sure that no one would believe it. This has bee going on for some time now as we speak since money has been involved with these so called tours in the bigfoot world. Shows have been created for ratings in which has nothing to do with research. So this has brought us no closer to where we need to be . Neither a living nor dead will bring research any closer to these creatures to what the damage of these networks did to research of these creatures. We are still at zero on the research side of these creatures with the same ol rhetoric place we were back in the 70's. The only newest thing that has truly taken placed is the use of thermo's that these creatures are now getting keen onto in our wilderness. Which is saying one thing about these creatures. They are highly intelligent to understand our technology. Now you tell me if an ape, monkey, or even a chimp is very capable of this where they stand with man. I am not saying that these creatures are not intelligent. But these creatures surpass those creatures for being flesh and blood. This is the reason why they are so hard to research. Also why so many groups stay silent on what they are dealing with. Surprise ,surprise, Right ! Go ahead speak out if I am wrong. If not then stay silent or show me what you have as proof. Stop saying that they do not exist. That is just a poor excuse. The math does not lie. The groups that are out there know the truth. Speak up. Stop hiding the truth.

One example of many, where "speculation" has been used by some as fact, then echoed throughout the online world and accepted as fact, but... it started as speculation, leading to a sea of white noise along the way in the search for the truth of this thing.

What it all boils down to is it’s 99% conjecture till we have a type specimen. A mountain of evidence won’t equal proof in this case. IMO of course.

I'll definitely be getting a Garmin InReach and something like that Pow'r Pull very soon. I've had many fully tricked out 4x4s in the 50+ years I've been going out in the back country, but don't have the space or the money for that sort of thing any more, so I make do with a mildly off road dual purpose vehicle. I just need to learn to adjust my level of trail attempts to suit. I think the rig I most regret getting rid of was the '76 Ford E350 camper van, converted to 4x4 with an F350 solid front axle, winch, Detroit lockers front and rear, and 35" tires. It was pretty much an unstoppable tank, with most of the comforts of home when I shut the key off at the end of the trail.