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Here's the complete December 1959 True Magazine article:

"O Ye of Little Faith." I've seen a few videos showing Bobby H. doing his walk. Patty's walk has nothing to do with the swinging of her arms. It has everything to do with the combination of: 1) The compliant gait and 2) the 41" step length and 3) the substrate upon which she walked which was uneven and moved beneath her foot and 4) her ability to maintain her graceful steps despite all the above while looking back as she continued to glide along. Those who think it's no big deal--try it at home. Place markers every 41" then attempt to do it in a controlled environment where the flooring is rigid and perfectly flat. Be sure to maintain your lower leg nearly parallel to the ground as you lift your knee while striding along. Next, go to the beach and attempt the same walk while barefoot where the subtrate will move as your foot sinks in. Finally, maintain that same 41" step length and lookback as you continue to walk, never looking down at your feet. I've never seen anyone who video'd themselves who didn't look like they were ready to topple over. A clumsy oaf, rather than a graceful and gliding ballerina, and those who've attempted it did so without a costume, including full head gear, and footwear that would leave 14 1/2" long impressions in the substrate that could be casted.

"O Ye of Little Faith." We have the answers in our midst. Go back to the BFF 1.0 and review the analysis and discussions about Patty's proportions, including calculations, related to that. I am fortunate to have followed them daily, in real time, watching issue after issue unfold and then be addressed with calculations. It was a true pleasure. I believe Gigantofootecus first posted his observations about Patty's proportions in November 2005. He used photogrammetric calculations to arrive at his conclusions. Anyone claiming PGF is a hoax has to get past those calculations--good luck, you better brush up on cosecant-squared theta, you'll definitely need it. Absolutely fascinating work to formulate his conclusions. Then came Bill Munns with his detailed treatise which methodically examined every aspect of Patty's body in the PGF from head to toe. He left no stone unturned with his stunning and detailed work viewed from the perspective of an expert in filming and suit construction. There probably is no one who knows more about the PGF than he. Then, SwetiYeti painstakingly presented his elbow/arm proportion analysis. It's all there for everyone to view. There is no new video that can undo the spectacular work nor refute the conclusions heretofore by BFF members with respect to the PGF, in my opinion.

It’s the Philip Morris - Bob H. Recreation from 20 years ago. It’s an abomination. Again, it’s not that Roger was a con man. He was. It’s not that Bob G. gets dates wrong or facts wrong from 60 years ago. He does. The 800 lbs Gorilla in the room is Patty walking across that creek bed. Which 20 years ago they failed spectacularly to recreate.🤷‍♂️

^ Good points, although I have my doubts about them being classified as humanish. To me, just too much about them are non-human. But we will see...maybe... I would certainly love to see a reporter ask Trump at a news conference when he is going to release the "Bigfoot Files". I am not holding my breath for that to happen though. Currently reading Where The Footprints End, Vol. II. Finished Vol. I a few days ago. The basic premise is that Bigfoot is totally related to the Fae, UFOs, ghosts, orbs, etc. and all sorts of paranormal activity. Even if you are a firm F&B believer, you do have to admit that their research is impressive. They catalog how Bigfoot is intertwined with activities and events that have been described throughout history as Fae activity, ghosts, trolls, etc. and other folklore. Interesting reading and thought provoking, even if you dismiss their hypothesis. It will make you think. While I have always been a strict F&B guy, there is a lot of weirdness with Bigfoot that defies explanation. Thanks to Joe and Jessi over at Hellbent for helping me to "evolve" my thinking on this. Still believe in F&B for the most part, but I think there are other things happening as well that do not fit neatly into the traditional Bigfoot "box". Yeah, Woo happens... And finally, in regards to the original question, it will mean nothing. Plenty of other evidence point to their existence. As I have always said, every single one of the 10s, probably 100s, of thousands of reports cannot be hoaxes, hallucinations, misidentifications, and outright lies.

Because we know film site? And it was massively studied? We have a darn good idea of how big Patty was. Jim McClarin is 6 foot 6 inches tall.

Depends on her mood I suppose lol. I'm currently typing this one handed after testing the theory with my wife 😂.

The PGF while an amazing film? Proves nothing. The war isn't going to be won with films, interviews, conferences, plaster casts or audio analysis. The war will be won with bone, flesh, scat, blood and saliva. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Honestly, this whole thing seems like hearsay to me at this point, which is almost always considered to be weak 'evidence'. Bob G. himself could tell me in person that the PGf was a hoax (I really don't think he would) but, I would still doubt that. The PGf rehearsal being touted (as I understand), will need to be very convincing in order to sway my opinion. And, I would bet you a dollar that it isn't. If the PGf subject were or, if it even could be realistically replicated with, a costume, that would have been done many times by now.

And here we go w/a quick review of Evidence v. Egos. All times are from the YouTube transcript; all comments are made by Eric from Hairy Man Road. He managed to squeeze 3 minutes of specific information into 12 minutes this time, so his signal to noise ration is at least improving a little. 1:00 Patricia Patterson "admits that the 67 footage is a hoax." Who calls the P-G film "the 67 footage?" Is he referring to the new footage, which he mistakenly referred to as being shot in 1967 in his first video? Starting at 6:41, the narrator states that Jeff Meldrum (RIP) agreed that it was a dry run. In the last video he has Dr. Meldrum saying "it looks like a dry run." That's not an insignificant difference, and had a follow-up question been asked, it would clarify if Dr. Meldrum would have been able to offer a more complete answer. He might have, and that answer might be on the cutting room floor. The narrator then states that Patricia Patterson admitted that it was Bob Gimlin in the film. That's like claiming as a shocking development "that Japan once attacked U.S. forces in Hawaii." I think everyone with some actual knowledge of this matter knows that there was an earlier attempt at making a commercial film. Then at 6:51 the narrator declares that Bill Munns is only defending the film because he (Mssr. Munns) has a financial stake in the P-G film being real. If that's the case, Eric from Hairy Man Road has no credibility on anything he says because he has a financial stake in pushing his YouTube channel. He also claims that Bill Munns is about to release another book on the P-G film. "Everybody's saying that ..." Actually, there's only about 2 minutes of specific information that's even worth mentioning in this 12-minute clip.

Okay, I looked at the transcript of this video because it's a typical podcast or webshow which crams 4 minutes of information into 30 minutes.... Clint Patterson, the "witness" in the new film is 66-years old. That makes him 7 years old when the P-G film was made and probably 12 years old when his father passed away. Clint Patterson never states that his father admitted the hoax to him. Clint Patterson claims that his mother stated that Bob Heironimus wore the P-G film suit. Patricia Patterson is in this film (Edited to Add: According to this reviewer, she does not say "The P-G film was a hoax." She does call it a curse, which is not inaccurate, I'm sure.) Clint P states that she "disowned him" after he stated that he was going to discredit the P-G film, but reading through this reviewer's comments, it sounds like Clint P was on the outs with his family long before that. Clint P apparently hadn't seen his mother "in quite a long time." This film apparently relies on Greg Long's taped interviews of people used for his book. The film also shows clips from Greg Long's speaking tour discrediting the P-G film. Clint Patterson supposedly didn't report "the truth" sooner because Patricia Patterson was making money off the P-G film. (Then why would he discredit the film now?) The "telling" reaction from Bob Gimlin appears to be that he stated at a 2024 Bigfoot conference that he was "ready to tell the truth," but never did the follow-up interview that he agreed to make. This falls short of being a confession that he was in on a hoax in the P-G film. It sounds like the key test for most people will be how close the Patterson Ahtanum Film shot man in a suit is to the Patty suit. Notwithstanding Bill Munns' great work on the film, I think it still might be possible that Roger Patterson was such a bad filmmaker that even a film expert could be fooled.

Of course the BF world blows up when I'm in the middle of some real world concerns. So as I go through this thread I'll probably find that many of these things have been asked and answered. While it is irrelevant who a witness (or victim) is, their reputation for honesty or lack thereof and past examples of dishonest behavior can be used to demonstrate that their claim in a specific instance cannot be credited. A very long time ago, DAs almost never prosecuted alleged rapists if the victim was a known prostitute - who the victim was personally should have been irrelevant to the alleged crime. And a convicted embezzler can be the victim of embezzlement. However, his past convictions could be relevant to demonstrate that his claims that he was a victim should not be credited. His past actions would go to the weight the jury would give to the testimony. Unfortunately, Roger Patterson's past actions (misappropriating the camera he used, repeated dishonorable failure to repay debts) do give a reason to trust his statements about what happened at Bluff Creek less. BUT, his statements are only one item of evidence. Bingo. Unfortunately, those who are not deep in the weeds won't know that this supposedly new adverse information was known and addressed. What Meldrum said is that "there's several possibilities ... the first one is its bullshit ..." Cutting off the other possibilities and claiming that Meldrum "stated that the P-G film is bullshit" is affirmatively misleading. Hopefully, this is due to an innocent error on the poster's part and was not an intentional manipulation of Jeff Meldrum's statement.

Yes it does. Most Bigfoot videos including this “gotcha” video we haven't the foggiest idea where the film site is. Yes McClarin and Patty may be misaligned by a few feet. Albeit the sticks and stumps are lining up close. But a few feet? Yah. McClarin is walking pattys track way. Its still visible. But John Green and Roger Patterson almost assuredly are not standing in the exact spot. But close. Thats ALOT better metric than a flat ZERO. Where is Todd Standings filmsites? We don't know. Go take a pick from X Y or Z off the youtubes. The PGF is the most studied Bigfoot film-site in the world. 99.9 percent of them? We have no idea where they were filmed. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. As Bill Munns would tell you? There is value in that. 100 percent. Nothing takes the place of a body of course. And Bob H. is 6’2” tall. It’s not Patty’s height that impresses me. It’s her bulk and muscle movement. And it always has.

Reviews of YouTube reviews. That's what's being discussed here. It is truly a strange world that we live in.

Here is the PGF section link: For newer members, Kit was a long time and strongly anti-PGF skeptic on here some time back. His postings can still be found in the PGF section if anyone is interested in his comments. I saw those comments a few days ago when all of this broke. I guess he is still around... Welcome back SW! Supposedly, Bill Munns has seen it, but I do not know that to be a fact. I am very interested in his opinion of this.

I don't know. I will likely gut the entire rear box and build it up from there. But that will take a ton of time. And I don't have a shop. First steps will be to do maintenance on the rig and do some minor corrosion repair on the aluminum. Going to buff and wax the exterior, detail the interior, and sell the Stryker system. Once I get the rig cleaned up and repair all the little things, then I will evaluate it's retail value vs. cost/time of converting it to a class C motorhome. I'm also planning on building an RV pad and snow shed, along with a smaller shop, on some property in Idaho. I may want to just focus on that project since this summer is going to be hell in the Idaho mountains due to the low snowpack and winter that never came. The camping season is going to be about a month or so before they shut down the woods and ban campfires due to extreme fire danger. But there are some amazing ambulance conversions out there!

I am not a huge fan of Money maker. But I think he is right, it comes down to the suit. And as I said before we shall see if it stacks up.

This is a really fascinating video, thanks so much for posting! It's kinda nitpicking, but I think it's an important point that it's not really a 'debate' as no one is trying to 'win' or score cheap points, it's very much a discourse and that is so much more productive. I feel like a lot of these discussions turn into debates where people compete against each other to try and 'win' the argument and at the end of the day everyone loses. For full disclosure, I am sceptical by nature. I'm an atheist, I don't believe in ghosts and I don't believe aliens have visited earth. On the topic of bigfoot or sasquatch I'm very much torn as when I see the 'Patty' film it just looks real and genuine to me. That looks like a massive, weighty, bipedal ape that is definitely not a human in a suit and moves with a real looking cadence. However, there are so many questions surrounding other evidence sources such as testimony, hair samples, lack of body, lack of better definition visual record etc. As I said, I'm actually really torn on this subject as it's a bit of a Occam's razor to me: Is it simpler for me to explain away the lack of a cadaver, lack of fossil record, lack of good visual record or is it easier for me to explain away the 'Patty' film which I think looks very much real. I just can't explain away the film, I've tried to rationalise it and have read Mr. Munn's fascinating book and I can see no way realistically in 1967 that a couple of Cowboys pulled that off as a hoax, I think they filmed a real live animal there but that brings up just so many questions....................

It’s 2026 and people are still desperately trying to discredit the film. So far all attempts have failed as none of them address the issues that exist with replicating the film subject with 1960’s costume technology.

Such surely brings into question any conclusions our new member draws.

I volunteer to perform a blindfolded feel test on any purported Patty "suit" and live female test subject.

Interesting, as even Kitakaze is suggesting it's the Ahtanum Valley footage, which is discussed I believe in Greg Long's book, so it seems Joshua is at odds with Marq Evans on this. Okay - the breast thing is a bit suspicious, but we can't tell until we see those boobs.

Lots of good channels. I particularly like Studying Sasquatch, Hellbent Holler, and Small Town Monsters.

Got the emergency lights hooked up. Neighbor kids love them, lol.

Just got back from a 3200-mile road trip from Washington to the AZ/Mexico border and back. I won an auction for a 2009 IH ambulance in Marysville, WA so had to take a sidetrack to there and pick it up. Plan is to convert it into an RV for exploring the Idaho woods. I would have loved to find one in 4x4, but realized most of my weekend trips didn't really need 4wd. The new rig is very beefy and not in too bad of shape. Going to strip the interior and build a log cabin-themed interior complete with little wood stove.

I'm partial to Cabin in the Woods. And a close second is Hellbent Holler.

Long time since I've been on here, so I jumped on this am after seeing this article floating around on Reddit. Does anyone know someone that was in attendance? Any ideas how the community is going to react? For me personally knowing Bob it bothers me a bit but at the end of the day what does it look like if the PG Film gets gutted as a pillar of proof for so many? On our radio show, I called it last year in our year in review that the fate of the bigfoot community will stand in their ability to adapt to coming change. The change may be here, and it's not the DNA project that's been slow moving, it's a pillar being shook that many have held onto as the foundation of proof for what they think is out there. The world is far stranger than we understand, there is more out there than we can see with out own two eyes. In my opinion, the truth of the Sasquatch rests within the First Nations stories and not in some dusty film canister from 1967. What's the general here consensus at the moment? https://www.austinchronicle.com/screens/sxsw-film-review-capturing-bigfoot/?fbclid=IwY2xjawQg6ZtleHRuA2FlbQIxMABicmlkETFoNHhyTTJiamNYcWxZRjVYc3J0YwZhcHBfaWQQMjIyMDM5MTc4ODIwMDg5MgABHi7cW4mJJFjY2H7KROAh4hcPrF00rtvtsmjF4z530FkcM4xD70JokAmgF-ss_aem_7Dleq1MsNeJ1hkkm2nHgPg

I think they're suppressing discovery because these creatures will be determined to be a human species, and that will cause a whole new level of political, legal, and real estate problems. Simultaneously, discovery will be too disruptive to the sasquatch species. Currently, they're almost universally left alone by humanity. That will not be the case after discovery. Keeping them mythical is better for everybody, especially the sasquatches.

But....but.......but Hairy Man Road said it's now a proven hoax! Heh!

30 seconds in, "It seems they don't want to accept the facts." What facts has this cretin brought to light? Zip.

Why so mean to this guy?

Yesterday I read comments on the Sasquatch Odyssey video I posted just above. Wow, some brutal, hurtful comments toward Mr. Munns, including some from "Hairy Man Road," whose video also appears in this thread, dismissing PGF as a hoax. What a jerk he's proven himself. Bill calmly, respectfully, logically, and with knowledgeable expertise puts forth his views on the new/old footage, even providing the documentary producers with information about the film that they didn't previously know. "Hairy Man Road" proceeds to insult Bill thru comments on a third-party's video. Real class.

Merged the Capturing Bigfoot by Sircalum with this one. Please try to keep this topic to a minimum number of threads. We have this topic here and one over in the PGF section for specifically the Capturing Bigfoot documentary. And any number of other very topic specific threads in the PGF section for everything under the sun regarding PGF. Thanks!

At the end of the day though, proportions, analysis, and other units of measurements or what not to determine if the PGF is authentic doesn't mean anything. It's just a bunch of guys doing the best they can to come up with compelling arguments as to why it authentic. I was actually kinda happy Bob Gymlan (the BiGFo0T content creator on youtube) took a shot at thinkerthunker because of thinkerthunkers methods of analysis using horizonal lines and stuff to measure proportions. Which is fine, but youtube videos analysis doesnt prove the PGF is real nor does anyone else's methods. They're just compelling arguments and thats all they are. I dont know who it was but someone claimed Patty was 7'4" at least. NO ONE knows how tall Patty is/was.

In the spirit of the topic! Favorite LB song ever, and I do not even hunt (but I will wet a line once in awhile...).

So I am able to collect hairs from them on a pretty repeatable basis over time, and am interested in starting a routine of getting these hairs I collect collected in the best way possible and also getting them tested(of course). I can likely fund the effort myself. I work a lot, this is a very busy time for me, but would like to get this effort rolling. Anyone that has some pointers on how to proceed can PM me or preferably just reply here.

If I had a Bigfoot movie with my friends back in my youth (1970's ) any bigfoot would look like footage from the PGF in the following sense: -Any footage would have a Bigfoot subject. -The camera would come on to the subject. -Unless the video was designed to have bigfoot attack the cameraman, the Bigfoot would walk away or run away. -The setting would be in some sort of outdoors, probably wooded area. That generic happening would be common in nearly any bigfoot video. It wouldn't make it "Trial Run" or anything else. This reminds me of the Roger Patterson drawing appearing in Roger's book PRIOR TO the PGF event. It didn't signal a pre-PGF tell, it was just a drawing inspired largely from other reports.

I’m hearing Bob Gimlin confesses to a hoax in this documentary. If that’s true it’s over for the Patterson, Gimlin film.

so my understanding of this threads to sum up in cliffs is this: -Theres a new documentary that came out that doesn't disprove Sasquatch, but casts doubt about the 1967 PGF with the 1966 PAF to draw viers to the idea that the 167 PGF is bs, and that sasquatch isnt real -and to this day the PGF is still inconclusive something like that to sum it up?

I am not killing the messenger. You were cherry picking some “gotcha moment” Rogan video short against Meldrum. Which is a crock. It doesn’t even remotely represent what Meldrum said in the full interview let alone years of conferences and his BOOK!? Really? Have you read it? So hence forth I will be scrutinizing you based on this slanderous event you perpetrated on this forum. Sorry.

Meldrum was just repeating Joe’s line where he explores what he thinks is a possibility. The only arguments presented here by skeptics are that people close to Patterson claim it’s a hoax. Meanwhile Patty herself has characteristics that aren’t repeatable with costumes.

Kind of like Meldrum’s “confession”??? Give me a break.

No. We have no body. Therefore we cannot rule out option A. No film includes a body for science to poke. You’re taking Meldrum out of context there. It’s cheap. A three second gotcha doesn’t erase his years of research on the subject. Or Bill Munns for that matter….. This might work on Reddit or some Facebook page. But it won’t work here. 🙄

If they have located footage that Roger took of a person in a suit walking through woods - then aside from it being a valuable find for the archives: a) we already knew a drama documentary was being made - this has always been known since the PGF was released - no change b) it would be entirely expected that there would need to be such footage to put in the drama documentary. It would be pretty difficult to do it without - no change c) if it is indeed the Ahtanum footage, as Kitakaze states in my comment above - it appears to match the timelines of the drame documentary footage, not the PGF - no change d) if it is the Harry Kemble memo footage (whether or not that is the same as the Ahtanum footage), then Harry's memo makes clear that this has no similarity with the PGF in terms of filming timeline, camera, lens, filmstock, style or processing - no change If there is no direct link to the PGF then they are merely selling us something we already have in a new shiny sensationalist wrapper. Given the rumours of the film maker and/or Clint Patterson pursuing people in their 80's and 90's - Pat Patterson and Bob Gimlin for confessions, it suggests no link and more than a hint of desperation to me.

I don't understand your concern about someone "gutting" the PGF. It stood the test of time here on BFF under an electron-microscope type analysis and it is entirely irrelevant who Patterson and Gimlin were personally. Go ahead and try to destroy their reputation. It doesn't change the fact that a video is out there every aspect of which has been analyzed here at BFF over the many years. In my opinion, anyone who wishes to claim the PGF was a hoax has to specifically disprove Gigantofootecus' ASH ratio calculations and Patty's forearm ratio. Not knowing those two issues intimately, much less at all, tells me everything I need to know about someone's ability to intelligently discuss the PGF. Moreover, have they read Bill's Munn's works, which, in my opinion, are a veritable treatise on the PGF, or even know who he is? There are many people who have opinions about a lot of things they possess little or no knowledge. Let them come here and debate both critical, and tangential, issues of the PGF itself.

There are people on Reddit claiming that the documentary disproves the film, and that because of it they no longer believe in the existence of Bigfoot

Okay, I was wondering why you were bidding on an old ambulance!! Thank you for explaining that right up front. Your conversion sounds amazing; hope to see pictures of it.

If I had a dollar for every person that said that black tailed deer stood about five feet tall and weighed three-fifty or that a coyote was about four feet tall and about seventy pounds, I would be rich. Deer and coyotes are not as high nor weigh as much, as people imagine them to be. The same could happen in the opposite. People under estimating them. People are surprised to find out a wild turkey can weigh as much as 30 pounds or that a golden eagle weighs as little 6 to 15 pounds. informed, experienced perception is important.

This interesting TV special aired in Sacramento, California in 1975; I found it on YouTube at

I have been watching forums die a slow death for years. I.e. The old jet boating forum Mean chicken is gone. Along with it all of its extensive knowledge. The younger crowd doesn’t do forums for some reason. They stick with social media. And then cry about censorship, etc. I just don’t get it. I find forums like these much easier to navigate and interact with.