Need Help In Central Texas.........

[NorthWind]

@Bigtex A good "no-nonsense" gun guy on YouTube is Paul Harrell. Lots of great information from him. Here is his video on .45 vs 10mm for protection.

 

 

[MIB]

On 10/18/2021 at 3:15 PM, Bigtex said:

Here's a question for you pistol guys, never owned a pistol (kids) before but I need something, no more Wolf or Ridgeback to clear my path, and have been running into critters I don't wanna mess with, pigs, bobcats, cougars, I've seen a black jaguar years ago, no thanks on any of those, what do I need guys??? 

 

Do you have bears to consider?   What about feral cattle?   What kind of pigs .. how big?    (Wild boar vs javelina, basically.)   

 

I grew up in a bear preserve.   Based on decades of near constant contact, I've formed the opinion that people who think the 10mm or any other semi-auto short of the .44 auto mag, .45 winchester mag, or .50 AE for "bear protection" have absolutely not a brain cell in their skull.    People certainly have defended themselves successfully with lesser guns / cartridges but those are fortunate accidents, the things that happen to other people, not to me.   I always draw the crappy end of the stick and have to deal with worst case, not best case, situations.  

 

Feral cattle .. not something most people think about.   For the most part, beef cow breeds are not too bad but some of the dairy breed bulls were born waking up on the wrong side of the bed and seem to hunt trouble.    They can hurt you .. bad.    And big, upwards of a ton.   Fast .. often long, lean critters, not ones with little stubby legs.   And horns.  

 

Feral pigs ... not javelina ... can be very aggressive and very dangerous.  

 

With any of those, I would skip the semi-autos.   There are a very few semi-autos that will handle sufficiently powerful cartridges but they are typically very bulky, very heavy, and, other than perhaps the Desert Eagle, rare.    Stick with a revolver.   Which one ... depends on your hands.    What fits me comfortably may not fit you at all.   For me the most comfortable to shoot are single action revolvers.   I'd suggest if you're not a big time handgun guy, keep it simple and get a .44 magnum .. Ruger super blackhawk.  There are other options but truly suitable ammo is harder to find.   Then practice, practice, practice.    I've put upwards of 50K rounds downrange through my various .44s.   If you like double action, stick with S&W or Ruger.   Watch out for the S&W 329PD.  I have one, love to carry it, HATE shooting it.   It is the most vicious recoiling thing I've ever laid hands on.    But it is sure sweet to pack when backpacking and ounces count.

 

If you don't have to consider any of those critters, then the choices get simpler.    Most of the conventional self defense semi auto cartridges .. or at least the larger ones, say 9mm, .40, 10mm, and .45 .. will handle cougars and anything smaller.    Same with .357 revolvers.   In fact, I had a little go-around with a cougar in our yard about a month ago which lead to a dead cougar.  I would not have intentionally started things with a snubby 5 shot revolver but since that's what I had in the moment, that's what I used .. the cat is dead and I'm not.   "I approve of this outcome."    I probably would not drop down to the .38 special, .380 ACP or any of the .32s.      So far as guns, my hands don't fit Glocks, otherwise they'd be first choice.   Among 9mms, I'm shopping for a compact CZ75.   I'd take a Browning HiPower.   .45s or 10mm .. a 1911 design.    .40 same as 9mms, probably Glock if they fit your hands.     For .357, I like the S&W J, K, and L frames .. N frame for that matter but they're heavy, or Ruger SP101 or GP100 .. or a Redhawk but again, they're heavy for what you get.

 

So that's "in general."

 

What I do .. mostly I carry a little 4-5/8" barreled Ruger Super Blackhawk or a 4" barreled S&W 329PD, both .44 magnums, even shoot the same shells in both .. when I'm hiking or fishing.   If I wake up and have a twitchy feeling about where I'm headed, I set them aside and grab my .454 Casull.   It is a beast .. and will handle anything in my area with authority.   It'll also handle big bears but the margin is thinner.    When I'm just out walking in my neighborhood, usually I pack the J-frame S&W (M60, 3" barrel, adjustable sights, .357) that I had when I tangled with the cougar.   For some reason  I can't explain, though too small (physically) it fits me .. I shoot it well and I have a lot of confidence in it.

 

MIB

[Huntster]

From Clint Smith:

 

Quote

The sling is to a rifle what the holster is to a pistol. If you have a sling, chances are you will keep the rifle with you. If there is no sling present, you will set the rifle down. When you are at the absolutely farthest point away from the rifle that you can possibly get, you'll need it.

 

Quote

The handgun would not be my choice of weapon if I knew I was going to a fight. ...I'd choose a rifle, a shotgun, an RPG or an atomic bomb instead.

 

Quote

A handgun is properly used to fight your way back to your rifle which you never should have left behind in the first place.

 

1 hour ago, MIB said:

.........I grew up in a bear preserve.   Based on decades of near constant contact, I've formed the opinion that people who think the 10mm or any other semi-auto short of the .44 auto mag, .45 winchester mag, or .50 AE for "bear protection" have absolutely not a brain cell in their skull........

 

Here's a guy who appears to lack brain cells: a fishing guide on the Alaska Peninsula (home of the highest density of giant coastal brown bears on Earth) leading fishermen through the brush to go fishing.........and carrying a 9mm semiautomatic handgun. Now, I'm not quite sure how or why this came to be, but he did successfully kill a brown bear that charged after they kicked it up at extremely close range in the brush. I don't recommend such activity, but it goes to show that 1) the correct ammo, even for hand cannons like 44 mags and larger, is at least as important as the caliber and action type of sidearm selected, and 2) Hitting what you're shooting at while under extreme pressure is the most important criteria of all, whether shooting bullets or nuclear warheads.

 

My bottom line?: I have a rifle on/in my vehicle or slung over my shoulder if I'm not in or near my vehicle, and my sidearm is strapped on at all times unless I'm in my sleeping bag, at which time it's lying near my head with light mounted on it (mounting effective lights on revolvers isn't easy).

 

https://www.americanhunter.org/articles/2016/8/10/alaska-outfitter-defends-fishermen-from-raging-grizzly-with-9mm-pistol/

 

 

[MIB]

15 minutes ago, Huntster said:

Here's a guy who appears to lack brain cells: a fishing guide on the Alaska Peninsula

 

Yeah, Phil.    Phil is on a forum I spend a good bit of time on.   Everybody seems to want to think Phil's miracle means it's a good idea for them.    They don't have Phil's skill or his luck.   When people bring this incident up, Phil gets real real quiet.    His message to me by PM was what he did, putting himself and his clients in that situation, was a mistake that should have gone wrong and nobody in their right mind would repeat it.    I intend to learn from Phil's mistake in planning, not double-down on his bet.   .. just sayin'.

 

MIB 

[Huntster]

38 minutes ago, MIB said:

.......His message to me by PM was what he did, putting himself and his clients in that situation, was a mistake that should have gone wrong and nobody in their right mind would repeat it........

 

No doubt; a guide, and on the Peninsula. When on a hunting or fishing trip, I pack a more substantial sidearm, and of course, have a rifle in my rig or slung on my shoulder. Now I carry a Glock 20 sidearm loaded with 200 grain Underwood FMJs. When snowmobiling, I carry my old S&W 629 44 mag on a handlebar mounted holster for aggressive moose. It isn't so much the ballistic energy for me. It's all the rest of the considerations that moved me from the revolver to the semi-automatic sidearm.

 

But when I go to Anchorage in my wife's car, I slip a 9mm compact 1911 and ammo bag under the drivers seat. There's a 147 grain Underwood FMJ in the pipe (it's a DAO), and the magazine is loaded with 124 grain Golden Saber hollow points. The bag carries a spare hp magazine and two Underwood FMJ magazines. The gun and ammo holsters are inside-the-pants slip ons. If we take a walk on the city's trail system, I change to the FMJs. Along with the bear spray my wife always carries for curious bears, I feel well enough armed and very socially acceptable, even for an gun-unfriendly city (which Anchorage is not). 

 

And the possibility of encountering a curious or testy bear on an Anchorage trail is higher than most wild areas on the rest if the continent. People are mauled and even killed within the city limits by bears every couple of years, and ADFG has determined that there are @ 60 grizzlies and 300 black bears within the city limits every year. 

[Bigtex]

The Black Bears used to be in Central Texas, but not for a long time. Supposedly they will be showing up soon though. There are free ranging Longhorn's, like this ole fella, some are absolutely huge and surprisingly nimble for their size. A few years back I was hiking, heard a tiny stick break behind me, turned around and there was this 2000lb. beast within 15' feet....it boggled my mind how he was able to sneak up on me in fairly thick brush so quietly, he was friendly enough and appeared to be looking for a hand-out, lol. Would need my Marlin guide-gun in 45-70 for that bad boy.

 

Great stuff on the hand guns guys, very much appreciate the info!!

 

[JKH]

I always learn new things from the Field threads, thanks to y'all.

Tex, I hope you don't have to shoot any cats, did you decide not to have another dog?

That poor bull looks hungry, take him a sack of grain or something!

[Madison5716]

On 10/21/2021 at 7:59 AM, MIB said:

4" barreled S&W 329PD

 

Oh, now that's beautiful. And worth more than my vehicle, LOL.

[Bigtex]

Hey JKH....hope you are well:) Been thinking about another dog, or wolf, but it's such a commitment that I'm not sure I want to do again.....my pack is down to lil Rusty.

[Bigtex]

Here's an interesting phenom, and I've noticed this before......one of my hiking areas is close to being developed, survey people doing their thing and old trails being trimmed up for better access. Someone doesn't like this, and over the last few weeks dozens living limbs & trees have been pulled over to block these main trails......too many to be by chance IMO, your thoughts?

 

[wiiawiwb]

Unless there have been recent wind storms, there are more trees down than I would expect to occur naturally. In your second picture it looks like the split wood is fresh...I can't tell from the other pictures but you said they were living limbs. What is the blue in the tree in the last picture...a do-rag?

 

On 10/21/2021 at 12:56 PM, Huntster said:

 

No doubt; a guide, and on the Peninsula. When on a hunting or fishing trip, I pack a more substantial sidearm, and of course, have a rifle in my rig or slung on my shoulder. Now I carry a Glock 20 sidearm loaded with 200 grain Underwood FMJs. When snowmobiling, I carry my old S&W 629 44 mag on a handlebar mounted holster for aggressive moose. It isn't so much the ballistic energy for me. It's all the rest of the considerations that moved me from the revolver to the semi-automatic sidearm.

 

But when I go to Anchorage in my wife's car, I slip a 9mm compact 1911 and ammo bag under the drivers seat. There's a 147 grain Underwood FMJ in the pipe (it's a DAO), and the magazine is loaded with 124 grain Golden Saber hollow points. The bag carries a spare hp magazine and two Underwood FMJ magazines. The gun and ammo holsters are inside-the-pants slip ons. If we take a walk on the city's trail system, I change to the FMJs. Along with the bear spray my wife always carries for curious bears, I feel well enough armed and very socially acceptable, even for an gun-unfriendly city (which Anchorage is not). 

 

And the possibility of encountering a curious or testy bear on an Anchorage trail is higher than most wild areas on the rest if the continent. People are mauled and even killed within the city limits by bears every couple of years, and ADFG has determined that there are @ 60 grizzlies and 300 black bears within the city limits every year. 

 

I think a 10mm is an excellent woods gun. I have a Glock 40 MOS that I carry often. That said, when alone, the 10mm stays at home and is replaced by a .454 Casull Ruger Toklat revolver.  If something goes south quickly, I may only have one shot and I want it to count. The Toklat is one I shoot with confidence.

 

 

 

Edited November 4, 2021 by wiiawiwb

[Huntster]

1 hour ago, wiiawiwb said:

.......when alone, the 10mm stays at home and is replaced by a .454 Casull Ruger Toklat revolver.  If something goes south quickly, I may only have one shot and I want it to count. The Toklat is one I shoot with confidence.

 

If you only get one shot, yes, bigger seems better. But here's another quote from Clint Smith:

 

Quote

Make your attacker advance through a wall of bullets. I may get killed with my own gun, but he's gonna have to beat me to death with it, cause it's gonna be empty.

 

If I can get it in my hand and hang on to it, I can fire it. Even inside a collapsed tent in the dark with a bear on it. 

 

With a handgun, especially if your attacker is an animal, the most critical aspect is getting it your hand and it fires immediately with trigger pulls. Unlike a human attacker armed with a firearm, an animal must be literally on you. Under such circumstances, if the gun is in your hand, and it isn't a manual single action, you can fire it. A double action revolver works well., but you're limited to 5-7 rounds.

 

The Glock 10mm features a safe striker fire action and a full 16 rounds of hard hitting energy more powerful than the 357 mag out of full 6" barrel, and nearly as powerful as the old 41 magnum. Out of the box, the best lights attach right on, and tritium night sights can be bought for less than $100 and installed with just a small hammer and punch. The gun (comes with two magazines), a Surefire light, a set of tritium sights, an extended magazine release, two more magazines (for anti-personnel ammo for easy & quick conversion), and an Alaska Gear bandolier holster will cost @ $1000. Empty, it weighs over a pound less than the empty Toklat, and it's much less bulky. And when not in the wilderness, and loaded with easier shooting Hornady Critical Defense 180 grain hollow points, it also serves extremely well as an anti personnel sidearm. There's a YouTube video that will take you, step-by-step, through the "25 Cent Glock Trigger Job", an easy smooth and tune job that only requires a few q-tips and some rubbing compound. 

 

Sixteen rounds. And reloading is quick and easy, even in the dark, and by a wounded, traumatized man.

 

The 454 Casull 335 gr WFNGC DoubleTap round produces 1800 ft. lbs energy........x6 = 10,600 ft. lbs.

The 10mm Underwood 200 gr FMJ produces 694 ft. lbs energy.......x16 = 11,104 ft. lbs.

 

Thought of another way, 694 x 15 = 10,410.........and saving one for yourself in case you're so broke up you don't want to go through the misery of recovery.

 

In years past, Alaskans packed big revolvers. Not anymore. You'll see ten Glock 20's for every revolver you see out there. I'll never get rid of my 44 mag, and as late as this past spring I still mount it on my snowmobile for aggressive moose (I might switch that to the Glock, too) but as a sidearm during the rest of the year, and especially during the night in my tent, the Glock is the weapon for me.

[wiiawiwb]

Your analysis is spot on if a 15-round magazine is an option. The results change when the magazine options are limited to only 10 rounds versus a cylinder capacity of 6-8 rounds (includes a 44 magnum). That said, and as you know, it's easier to drop a magazine and insert a new one than it is to reload a revolver---unless, of course, you're Jerry Miculek.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzHG-ibZaKM

 

Edited November 5, 2021 by wiiawiwb

[Huntster]

1 hour ago, wiiawiwb said:

Your analysis is spot on if a 15-round magazine is an option. The results change when the magazine options are limited to only 10 rounds versus a cylinder capacity of 6-8 rounds (includes a 44 magnum)........

 

Is that 10 round magazine a legal limit, or is it a smaller frame 10mm?

[Huntster]

1 hour ago, wiiawiwb said:

........ it's easier to drop a magazine and insert a new one than it is to reload a revolver---unless, of course, you're Jerry Miculek.

 

LOL! Miculek is absolutely incredible, isn't he?