Creature Suit Analysis - Part 3 - The Mime Inside

[Guest]

just wondering if 20 grand per use is really a financial windfall.

I'd take it.

[Guest Jack]

Now I'm wondering how a "man in a suit" could run across a hillside without falling flat on his face. Even the WSU track star, without a suit fell the first time he tried. Most of you will know I'm referring to the Memorial Day sighting. I've always felt this was most likely a hoax, simply because it was on a holiday weekend with lots a people around to be "witnesses". A perfect hoax scenario. But after reading your articles, Bill, I'm certainly not so sure anymore. Could a man run that far, in a mask and "off the shelf" suit?

Thanks for all your time and efforts.

[Guest]

Bill - another great analysis, thank you.

Your dire predictions of imminent death from wearing a suit like this to walk across a sandbar in October notwithstanding, I'm very much enjoying your professional perspective on suit & mime performance.

If I recall, you've hinted that you're still not convinced that Patty was authentic, despite the hair, the muscles, and the mime. Is this gonna be one of those "0.000001 probability that it was a hoax" things (i.e., it's possible but exceedingly unlikely) or are you also going to present some analysis that is suggestive of a guy in a suit? {Feel free to be coy - I'm not trying to steal your thunder or anything!}

[Guest bac5665]

Jack--

I want to hear Bill's opinions on the MDF too. You raise an interesting question, with the running in a suit. But the MDF looks more like a loose suit than a form fitted one, at least to me, and that may make it easier to run in.

[Guest]

I'd take it.

Are you sure? Most attorneys I know - charge 500 an hour, and have minimum retainer fees which can range anywhere from 2,500.00 to 10 grand(that must have a minimum amount maintained). We fondly refer to my bosses letters as "the $250.00 letter", and that is just the letter that says "We heard from so and so, call our office so we can discuss this". Yeah, anything more than that and the 250 letter gets much more expensive.

I have seen clients spend $200,000.00 in less than 6 months.

[Guest Va-Bigfoot]

Hi Bill,

It was quite a treat speaking with you on the phone while visiting Daniel Perez in California during my Christmas vacation. Having some knowledge of the model making business made me realize how difficult it would be for someone to hoax the Patterson creature. I was able to observe a man in a Gorilla costume while using a thermal imaging camera and saw exactly what you have talked about concerning heat and moisture build-up. Thanks again for all your input, many of use are learning some valuable lessons here.

William Dranginis

Manassas, VA,

[Guest Justagirl]

Hi guys.....first time poster here and I have a question for Bill if that's ok.....He may have said and I missed it but......here goes

Bill may I ask what YOUR personal belief is in the validity of the PGF...real or not?

Thanks, I will shut up and listen now.

[Guest Jack]

Jack--

I want to hear Bill's opinions on the MDF too. You raise an interesting question, with the running in a suit. But the MDF looks more like a loose suit than a form fitted one, at least to me, and that may make it easier to run in.

That's what I meant by "off the shelf" suit.

[Bill]

Replying to posts from Number 37 and on.

Plaidlemur: Thanks for the reference to getting a PG film copy.

Lyndon: Wearing "street clothes" inside a suit is possible, especially if the suit is loose, a bit harder to dress into if the padding is real tight and form fitted. I can't say that it would affect the mime's movement greatly, but the risk of the clothing bunching up and maybe presing into the mime's body to impede circulation is a concern I'd have personally.

Studio floors are flat and smooth, but a dressed set may be landscaped to any degree of roughnes.

rockinkt:

Your experience as a mascot persormer is welcomed in this discussion. I have made a few "stroller" costumes (the theme park equivalent of a mascot costume, one a character wears for hours at a time) and generally the mascot or stroller costume is a sheet foam outer form the finished costume outer appearance is attached to. In general, these types of costumes tend to be loose inside, and don't have much padding. They also ten to have fairly large screen meshes the wearer looks out of for their vision, and that mesh allows some air circulation into the suit.

Air movement is a key factor in the human body's disipation of heat, so any costume allowing air circulation inside is clearly easier to wear for a long period of time. The degree of "openness" of the costume, meaning how well the costume lets the warmer air inside exchange with the cooler air outside the costume is also a factor in how cool the person is inside, affecting the mime's endurance. Movement by the mime can cause air inside to move about too, and push some outside the costume and pump some fresh air back in, also helping cool the mime.

So mascot and stroller costumes are designed to allow more air circulation and with that, more mime endurance.

With a heavily padded suit, just getting into it takes longer. If it has fur on the outside intended to look real, it needs to be groomed before filming. And a mime inside may stand around for awhile, after being fully suited up, before the camera rolls. The heavy padding impedes air movement against the mime's skin, so the body keeps radiating heat and it doesn't dissipate. So if you clock from start of suiting up to filming, to breaking the person out for rest, you are looking at a half hour or more (as a generalization here, no estimation of exactly how long a mime faking a BF sighting for a camera might be suited up).

And the degree of the individual's physical condition in general and the time allowed for a person to develop a higher conditioned endurance for the experience, do indeed factor heavily in the person's success in wearing the suit.

Titus:

Thank you for the imput about Haz-Mat and other industrial suits. I have no expertise in this area and welcome your knowledge.

Melissa: You are correct, as noed above, that a form-fitting heavily padded costume srtresses a body more that a loose airy one.

Yes, potential bunching behind the knee is something to look for (actually that's one of the things I want to look more closely at.) The leg is essentially a tapered cylinder, and when a rigid fur cloth cylinder bends (at the knee) there should be some buckling in the back, and I haven't seen any yet as I'd expect.

Jack: how far a person could run around that terrain is something we can all speculate upon, and I personally would expect some stumbling if the person is wearing shoes or footgear they aren't conditioned to walk in for a fair amount of prior time, but it's not conclusive, more argumentative.

Saskeptic: Apparently my dire prediction of imminent death, meant more as a figure of speech that a clinical estimation, has been perceived with more weight than I intended.

As for the conclusion of Patty's authenticity, I really want to do this right just in my own mind, and I do need to research the film itself more. The specter of a "perfect strom" of dumb beginner's luck on a suit hoax I still haven't completely discounted, because I theorize about how the rigid furcloth would move, and I expect to see buckles and bunching of the cloth in certain body areas I do not see in the film, but my expectation isn't the same as some kind of impartial demonstration of proof.

bac5665 : Did the above notes answer your questions about suits?

Bill (Va-Bigfoot) : Nice to hear from you. Look forward to talking with you more.

Justagirl: My personal belief is above in Saskeptic's reply, as well as in the opening note on the thread "Bill Munns Introduction" in Gnereal Discussions. In a work, "undecided", but believing enough to think all my effort here isn't wasted.

[Guest nightscream]

nightscream, this statement confused me so much that I needed to stand up and go outside to get a breath of fresh air. When I came back in, I still didn't understand it.

Sorry, didn't mean to cause any headaches. Was only trying to say that the assumption seems to be that being that it is possible that it was simply a person in a suit that this is the obvious answer seeing as BF has never been proven to be real. This answer is accepted despite the fact that it is also highly unlikely, as it is unlikely that it was a suit worn by the Queen of England. Was trying to use an extreme example to illustrate a point. Was probably a little convoluted logic on my part.

[Guest]

Melissa: You are correct, as noed above, that a form-fitting heavily padded costume srtresses a body more that a loose airy one.

Yes, potential bunching behind the knee is something to look for (actually that's one of the things I want to look more closely at.) The leg is essentially a tapered cylinder, and when a rigid fur cloth cylinder bends (at the knee) there should be some buckling in the back, and I haven't seen any yet as I'd expect.

Good. This discussion is a bit over my head - so, I am very glad I am understanding some of it.

This "bunching" behind the knee is what bothers me. I have looked at the photos of Patty I cant count the times, but I see no bunching. I just had no way of knowing if this was something costume designers had overcome a long time ago or not, so I may be looking for nothing.. LOL.

Anyway - thank you

[Guest Schilleville]

Schilleville wrote:

Patty Patterson, Roger's widow, told me herself that, for

a broadcast TV show, she licenses out the footage for $20,000.

Ok that's a fair example, but unless she has some water tight contractual agreements with all other people knowing of a hoax, what is their motivation to keep it secret?

To take it another step how many TV programs has it been licensed to in the 35 years since Pattersons death? I Honestly don't know for sure... 10? 20?

[Guest Sam Farris]

Maybe this is much too simplistic, but sometimes there is great power in simplicity.

People sometimes describe the creature(s) they encounter as looking like a man in a fur suit. Not a gorilla, not a monkey, but a man in a fur suit. Maybe the reason they use this description is because that’s exactly what they look like; just like the subject in the P/G film.

Sam

[Bill]

As a followup to my post #54 above in the thread, I realized after writing that another consideration worthy of mention. Humidity.

A temperature in the mid 90's, in Southern California where I am is warm t-shirt weather, no big deal. A temperature in the mid 90's back east or in the deep south, with it's higher humidity, can be a "killer" heat wave. The fact of higher humidity making any level of heat more intollerable for the body is well established.

So I wondered that in a well-padded tight fitting suit, not only does the padding hold body heat in and restrict air flow that could have dissipated the heat, but the padding becomes saturated by perspiration, and may raise the humidity inside the suit, thus multiplying the stress on the body.

That could be why being in a very tight-padded "creature" suit is so much more stressful than a loose school mascot suit or theme park stroller costume. You have the body heat, the lack of air flow to dissipate the heat, and the humidity from perspiration to multiply the heat stress to the most dangerous level. So that as well could be factored into the discussion of a person's endurance in such a fur "creature suit".

Bill

[Guest Hominid,WA]

However, the humidity level of Northern California in mid-October would be low one would think, but I see your point.