Creature Suit Analysis Part 10 - Flab

[Guest Skeptical Greg]

... The question begs to be asked of how Roger Patterson would have had the nearly super human eye for detail and knowledge to incorporate it into his suit. ...

Or it's the work of an amateur that just happens to look like a flabby back ?

What begs to be asked , is why a nimble, robust creature of the woods would have a flabby back ..

.... The question just a rightly begs to be asked if anyone can furnish examples of similar costumes that show this flab effect. Maybe something from the period will surface but I wouldn't bet the farm that anything from then or even now will.

And that would prove what ? That we still have only one example ?

I'm sure you can appreciate the adage regarding " One white crow, etc. .. "

And yes, it could be the only example we have of a real live Bigfoot...

Edited May 18, 2010 by Skeptical Greg

[Guest norcal logger]

What begs to be asked , is why a nimble, robust creature of the woods would have a flabby back ..

I asked a bear once and he said something about storing up for winter.

[kitakaze]

So Bigfoots go into torpor, too? That would be a primate first.

Edited May 19, 2010 by kitakaze

[Guest Apeman]

So Bigfoots go into torpor, too? That would be a primate first.

Not quite:The hibernating fat-tailed dwarf lemur

[Guest Crowlogic]

Or it's the work of an amateur that just happens to look like a flabby back ?

What begs to be asked , is why a nimble, robust creature of the woods would have a flabby back ..

And that would prove what ? That we still have only one example ?

I'm sure you can appreciate the adage regarding " One white crow, etc. .. "

And yes, it could be the only example we have of a real live Bigfoot...

Roger's "lucky eye for detail". Another first for an industry. Where does Roger's luck run out? Guess he was one heck of an amateur.

[Guest JohnWS]

I think it depends if the detail really is there in the first place or is being filled in as an afterthought by those keen to find things in the film that make it unique and thereby keep it alive so to speak. And I'm not suggesting this is a deliberate act - though in some cases this may well be the case.

I'll admit that I began to question my first gut reaction to the film as a kid (almost undeniably a fake) when I first saw the opinions of some of the learned folk here who seemed to have had studied the film - to the point where I wasn't sure what to think. I keep bringing this up so as to be clear I'm not a 'denialist'.

I now believe I may have been a victim of 'bigfoot peer pressure' as I call it. I certainly don't see the things that many others apparently do - or rather I have more mundane explanations that seem reasonable to me.

BTW I failed to find the picture you said was on Bill's site, though as I say with a bit of research (an interest in old make-ups helps is a leg-up in telling you where to look of course) you can find a realistic upper body flab-suit going back to 1939.

[indiefoot]

So Bigfoots go into torpor, too? That would be a primate first.

Could Seasonal Affective Disorder be a holdover to an earlier time when we had to spend several months inside a shelter.

[Bill]

JohnWS:

"BTW I failed to find the picture you said was on Bill's site, though as I say with a bit of research (an interest in old make-ups helps is a leg-up in telling you where to look of course) you can find a realistic upper body flab-suit going back to 1939. "

Here are the images crow is referring to. They are in the last release 1H, "Two Year review, Part 2"

I'm curious. The suit you refer to from 1939, is that a suit looking like skin or flesh, or a fur suit. A skin looking suit is sculpted and molded. A fur suit is tailored to contours. While there were many fine sculptors who could sculpt clay into various anatomical shapes, there were few people who could tailor furcloth into compound curved anatomical shapes, so the distinction would be helpful to know.

Bill

Edited May 19, 2010 by Bill

[Guest]

So Bigfoots go into torpor, too? That would be a primate first.

I don't know if it'd be a first, or an evolutionary gene that is dormant in you and me

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6197339.stm

http://discovermagazine.com/2007/may/suspended-animation

http://mcb.asm.org/cgi/content/abstract/13...ourcetype=HWCIT

http://www.brookscole.com/chemistry_d/temp...ibernation.html

"Hibernation occurs in members of almost every type of mammal. Monotremes, marsupials, primates, rodents, bats and many others all hibernate. This information suggests hibernation may be a very early development in mammals. The genes for PL and PDK-4 are also found in humans. Triggering them into initiating hibernation may be a simple process of helping our bodies "remember" the traits of our own ancestors. " -emphasis added

http://library.thinkquest.org/C003763/inde...p?page=future03

"A pioneering study by North Carolina State University geneticists has uncovered two key genes that are responsible for the production of enzymes that are vital to the hibernation process. What's more, these two enzymes are also present in humans (although used in different circumstances)." -emphasis added

[Guest JohnWS]

Bill - thank you for taking the time to post those pictures Crow' tried to direct me to. What to say without seeming denialist.....

If we were looking at flab on such a massive animal I would expect there to be a serious amount of vertical wobble especially in the 'bad step' section where the subject apparently takes a jarring step that shakes the upper leg. I don't see it happening there. In fact that is one of my major concerns regarding this film - the creature does not appear to be 'massive'. In the sense of perceived weight to size.

This is the same nit-picky problem I have with Gorillas in the Mist. I don't always get the impression of the mass of a real gorilla. Not criticizing the work but it does leave me with the impression 'something ain't right'.

I think when we get down to drawing lines on pictures we are down to 'interpretation'. I personally don't see the gravity effect visible in the picture of the bather present in the PGF subject. The curves look more rounded and perhaps 'stuffed'.

Could that in fact be to someone's interpretation tranlating 2d to 3d?

I think there are similar areas in the above and in the picture it was derived from. Patterson's picture of the creature messing with the VW shows a similar. It see it in other pictures of his.

You are correct in assuming the appliance I mentioned is in fact skin not fur. I brought it up as Crow' seemed to be under the impression that if 'flab' contours were in fact visible in the PGF it's another remarkable and unthinkable costuming first. These sort of proclamations without being in possession of the facts I find a little irritating. That's now one of the reasons I am becoming cagey giving stuff away - why should I do folks' homework for them?

As to clay sculpture VS tailoring rigid fur cloth - I'm not doggedly stuck with tailored rigid fur-cloth being the only fur material available to FX artists prior to the 80's.

JMHO as always of course.

[Guest Crowlogic]

Bill - thank you for taking the time to post those pictures Crow' tried to direct me to. What to say without seeming denialist.....

If we were looking at flab on such a massive animal I would expect there to be a serious amount of vertical wobble especially in the 'bad step' section where the subject apparently takes a jarring step that shakes the upper leg. I don't see it happening there. In fact that is one of my major concerns regarding this film - the creature does not appear to be 'massive'. In the sense of perceived weight to size.

John we don't see Patty's back during the misstep so we don't know how it would have reacted at that moment. But we do see her thigh jiggle quite well. Take a look at Sumu wrestlers during their pre match ritual where they slam their feet down to scare away evil spirits. You just might see some flesh jiggling like Patty's thigh.

[Guest JohnWS]

I see the thigh jiggle during the 'bad step' no problem - that's why I said:

jarring step that shakes the upper leg

If you look at the last picture of the PGF subject Bill drew a 'sad face' on for want of a better word, the area under the 'eye' and to the right of the 'nose' is visible during the 'bad step'. That's a potentially flabby area on both the bather and the PGF subject. As far as I can see it doesn't move at all. That seems wrong to me - it seems like a lightweight piece of something.

Anyway no big issue - I was just expanding on what I didn't see as Bill was good enough to find the pictures.

[Guest]

I don't know if it'd be a first, or an evolutionary gene that is dormant in you and me

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6197339.stm

http://discovermagazine.com/2007/may/suspended-animation

http://mcb.asm.org/cgi/content/abstract/13...ourcetype=HWCIT

http://www.brookscole.com/chemistry_d/temp...ibernation.html

"Hibernation occurs in members of almost every type of mammal. Monotremes, marsupials, primates, rodents, bats and many others all hibernate. This information suggests hibernation may be a very early development in mammals. The genes for PL and PDK-4 are also found in humans. Triggering them into initiating hibernation may be a simple process of helping our bodies "remember" the traits of our own ancestors. " -emphasis added

http://library.thinkquest.org/C003763/inde...p?page=future03

"A pioneering study by North Carolina State University geneticists has uncovered two key genes that are responsible for the production of enzymes that are vital to the hibernation process. What's more, these two enzymes are also present in humans (although used in different circumstances)." -emphasis added

Topor or not, would it not be a survival advantage for BF to put on as much weight as possible in the "green seasons" to store against the lean times of winter when game is scarce and hard to come by?

A cycle of gain/loose like that could produce the "flabby" skin effect. I can personally vouch for the fact that a significant amount of weight loss on an overweight person produces rolls and folds of skin.

[Guest]

I guess since you quoted me Mulder, you're asking me? If so, yes.

[Guest]

I guess since you quoted me Mulder, you're asking me? If so, yes.

I was quoting you and the person you were repsonding to, but the board pruned the other quote...