Guest BFSleuth Posted June 22, 2012 Posted June 22, 2012 Transformer, thank you for your post about the story of the two forest techs attacked by a bear. It does sound like a bear confronting humans for the first time and it is interesting that the bear came close, then became uncertain until it found how easily the human was knocked down. Thank you also for your apology regarding the tone of your previous reply to my post. Actually, after I made that post I did more research regarding the location of Proenneke's cabin and you are correct that it was a location that was hunted frequently. http://www.nps.gov/lacl/historyculture/proennekes-cabin.htm Perhaps my theory of bear vs human interaction was incorrect using this particular example.
Guest Darrell Posted June 22, 2012 Posted June 22, 2012 Cant really see a bigfoot comming out on top of a violent confrontation with something with long claws on four feet and big teeth made for taking big bites and tearing big hunks of flesh off real animals. time to apply some common sense guys.
Guest Posted June 22, 2012 Posted June 22, 2012 (edited) I agree that for a Sasquatch to willingly tangle with a healthy adult bear would be dangerous for both parties. I maintain that the two species observe a policy of avoidance based on mutally assured damage/destruction under normal circumstance. I do however believe that it is possible that Sasquatch, if they are indeed the creature of opportunity and practicality that they appear to be based on what we think we know about them would take advantage of Ursine hibernation cyles for predation. Grizzly are known to raid the dens of hibernating black bears for that exact purpose. There is also strong evidence that Grizzly are entering their own hibernation periods later, and exiting hibernation earlier than their black counterparts in order to take advantage. I see no problem with an adult Sasquatch snatching a drowsy bear from it's den and dispatching it with little effort and minimal threat to it's own safety. Edited June 22, 2012 by Tautriadelta
Guest Darrell Posted June 22, 2012 Posted June 22, 2012 (edited) ^But only if you assume bigfoot has some sort of supernatural strength and ability to harvest animals without using weapons or tools. Killing anything with your bear (pun intended) hands is very hard to do given the tools us bipeds have to work with. Here is a perfect example of applying a psedo theory based on bigfoot being the top tier apex predator only because thats what the movement wants to believe. We know huge bears exist and will kill and eat what they can so how can bigfoot exist in the same range and complete with then? The answer of course is that bigfoot is stonger, faster, bigger, and employs pycho attributes that apply to no other biped, thats how. It just doesnt make sense does it? My theory is bigfoot doesnt confront anything dangerous and avoids real apex predators. Edited June 22, 2012 by Darrell
Guest BFSleuth Posted June 22, 2012 Posted June 22, 2012 Darrell, have you read the BFRO sighting report of the hog hunter on the Sabine River? It describes a very fast and violent method of killing, by pounding on the animal "like pounding on a table top". The speed of the attack was unnerving for the hunter in the tree stand. http://www.bfro.net/...ort.asp?id=8547 While you are correct that bears have claws and sharp teeth, it requires a bear to be at close proximity to apply bite force for lethal effect. If a BF has the ability to tree break some rather large trees, with incredible grip and twist power, I would expect that for a bear to try close quarter combat will bring it within range of some pretty powerful arms and hands. At best I would consider it a stand off with a brown or grizzly, and a disadvantage for a black bear.
Guest Posted June 22, 2012 Posted June 22, 2012 (edited) Supernatural strength to pull a bear from a den? like this? As for tools if Sasquatch is non-human primate, proto-human or human there is no reason to discount that they would not know that a rock or log is a great instrument for crushing a skull. If they indeed hurl rocks with great precision as is indicated by so many accounts, open doors to homes, raid outdoor fridges and coolers I find it illogical that they would be unable to figure out another use for it in 20,000 years. If by Psycho attributes you mean "Curious, Intelligent Omnivore" than certainly they do employ them; how much more than a group of crows I witnessed dragging a dead Armadillo onto the road and standing by watching passing cars tenderize the meat for them before moving it onto the shoulder and digging in remains to be seen. I agree with your overall statement however, such a seemingly intelligent creature would know how to choose it's battles wisely and avoid confrontation that did not fall in it's favor in order to avoid needless injury. If they didn't we would be in far greater position to have a dead specimen even if it expired from a subsequent infection from such a fight. However, if a creature like Sasquatch lived alongside Smilodon, the Short-Faced Bear, packs of mighty Dire Wolf and prides of North American Lion it would have had to learn avoidance. Today's predators pale in comparison to what the Sasquatch have seen and out-lived. I see little reason for and adult Sasquatch to live in fear of a modern brown bear, all things considered. Edited June 22, 2012 by Tautriadelta
Guest Darrell Posted June 22, 2012 Posted June 22, 2012 Supernatural strength to pull a bear from a den? like this? Thats was pretty cool. But to be fair, what if the good Dr did'nt have a bunch of guys to pull him out of the den when the mama bear woke up, and he didnt kill mama, and what if mama wanted to fight? And he still had to tranq the cubs to get them out. However, if a creature like Sasquatch lived alongside Smilodon, the Short-Faced Bear, packs of mighty Dire Wolf and prides of North American Lion it would have had to learn avoidance. Today's predators pale in comparison to what the Sasquatch have seen and out-lived. I see little reason for and adult Sasquatch to live in fear of a modern brown bear, all things considered. Thats a good point, are there fossil remains of those animals existing on N. America?
bipedalist Posted June 22, 2012 BFF Patron Posted June 22, 2012 (edited) ....While you are correct that bears have claws and sharp teeth, it requires a bear to be at close proximity to apply bite force for lethal effect..... With all due respect BFS, I'd like to hear some Grizzly hunters weigh in on this. My understanding is that a well-placed Grizzly/Brown Bear swipe can help you meet your maker instantaneously (not to mention that of a Polar Bear)(I suppose whether it could do same to any Sasquatch depends on size, sex, hormone load, injury-status, age and prob. some other things). Further, if Sasquatch made the leap across the land bridge with other larger predatory contenders, I would think it learned survivalist-modes of avoidance.... not to say it didn't then capitalize on weaknesses such as torpor/hibernation and young-bearing opportunities of same predators on a seasonal basis. Though slightly off-topic all in bear country this summer should read and incorporate some of this into their epigenetics http://www.wikihow.c...e-a-Bear-Attack especially this section: Protect yourself above all. Be aware that you can't take a strike. The large swipes from a bear have been known to kill elk and deer in one movement; you will likely fare no differently. Use your backpack as a shield, throw things at the bear, like your pack, camera, books, shoes and drink bottle; preferably aim for sensitive areas of the bear's face. Be bear smart: http://www.bearsmart...stler/brochures http://www.bearsmart.com/docs/responding-human-black-bear-conflicts.pdf Edited June 22, 2012 by bipedalist
Guest Posted June 23, 2012 Posted June 23, 2012 Darrell, thousands here. http://www.tarpits.org/ It's just something I pondered honestly while watching another program about Brown bears "murdering" their groggy cousins. I tried to put myself in the Sasquatch's place, being a large omnivore with other mouths to possibly feed I feel it could hold some merit under the right circumstances for a particular Sasquatch or troop when times get harsh.
Guest Darrell Posted June 23, 2012 Posted June 23, 2012 ^Thats right, fossil records of a lot of beasts, but not of a bigfoot.
Guest Posted June 23, 2012 Posted June 23, 2012 Cant really see a bigfoot comming out on top of a violent confrontation with something with long claws on four feet and big teeth made for taking big bites and tearing big hunks of flesh off real animals. time to apply some common sense guys. As opposed to great physical strength and intelligence on the part of the BF? The bear is no sho-in for the win.
Guest Posted June 23, 2012 Posted June 23, 2012 (edited) Darrell, And... Only one human has ever been found, a partial skeleton of the a woman, dated to approximately 10,000 calendar years who was 17 to 25 years old at death and found associated with remains of a domestic dog, and so was interpreted to have been ceremonially interred. Who's to say if Sasquatch inhabited that area of Southern California during the era anyway, but if they did it would certainly speak to their intelligence in not "falling" for the trap themselves. Edited June 23, 2012 by Tautriadelta
bipedalist Posted June 23, 2012 BFF Patron Posted June 23, 2012 Supernatural strength to pull a bear from a den? like this? ..... Algonquin Prov. Park Video Martyn deserves every penny he earns going into bear dens like that esp. when the bruins aren't all asleep
Rockape Posted June 23, 2012 Posted June 23, 2012 Darrell, have you read the BFRO sighting report of the hog hunter on the Sabine River? It describes a very fast and violent method of killing, by pounding on the animal "like pounding on a table top". The speed of the attack was unnerving for the hunter in the tree stand. http://www.bfro.net/...ort.asp?id=8547 While you are correct that bears have claws and sharp teeth, it requires a bear to be at close proximity to apply bite force for lethal effect. If a BF has the ability to tree break some rather large trees, with incredible grip and twist power, I would expect that for a bear to try close quarter combat will bring it within range of some pretty powerful arms and hands. At best I would consider it a stand off with a brown or grizzly, and a disadvantage for a black bear. Great report. Thanks for the link.
Guest Posted June 24, 2012 Posted June 24, 2012 Some facts to think about: a chimp in the wild has the strength of 4 to 7 adult men, however generally five adult men.. An orangutan has the strength of 5 to 8 adult men, however generally 7 adult men. A gorilla has the strength of 9 to 12 adult men, however generally about 11. These are estimates taken from feats the animals have performed. Source: http://en.allexperts.com/q/Interspecies-Conflict-3754/2008/7/Strength-primates.htm Now, BF is what...~ half again as big as an average gorilla (total size, not simply height)? Scale it up.
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