Operation Persistence

[Guest]

I didn't say anything about Drew at all. What I said was....There is currently not enough conclusive evidence to prove BF exists. And sure, I can wait. I've looked myself and waited for forty years, but I can wait maybe another twenty or so. Until then, however, there is currently not enough conclusive evidence to prove BF exists. And that's a perfectly fine point Bitpo. But I can't be the only one who reads spite and bitterness in almost everything written by your Lead Peanut Gallery Cheerleader. Sarcasm, derision and downright nastiness doesn't just come from nowhere. And methinks it doesn't help when calling for robotic, unbiased, pure science on one hand while on the other repeatedly arguing from emotion. It's transparent. It's silly.

[Drew]

There's only one thing that will prove to people who have not seen them that this animal exists, IMO.

There is only one thing that will prove to people who thus far have not been able to examine a type-specimen, that this animal exists.

Quick question, Drew. Because of the vast number of links that come up with I search "reports of animals doing supernatural things" on Google, should I doubt any reported behavior of dogs, cats, horses, rabbits, goldfish, and parakeets? Just because there's a fraction of people out there who say things like this, should I dismiss any and all reports of these animals activities? I expect I should, based on your logic. Help me out here. Please, as you say, show your work.

No, why would I care if someone saw an animal that EXISTS doing supernatural things? A dog called 911, no big deal, it is a real animal. Search for "Unicorn doing supernatural things in the CircleK parking Lot" and see what comes up.

[Drew]

I will swear on a stack of whatever religious tome you hold dear that we receive essentially zero reports that involved UFOs, ghosts, mental telepathy, or any other supernatural element. It's not that we just don't publish them. We don't get them. Period.

Right, you are close to killing a wood ape, and you don't get any, or have not ever heard of anyone reporting Bigfoot and UFOs as one and the same.

And in your own words, you are either lying, or telling the truth.

[Guest DWA]

I didn't say anything about Drew at all. What I said was....There is currently not enough conclusive evidence to prove BF exists. And sure, I can wait. I've looked myself and waited for forty years, but I can wait maybe another twenty or so. Until then, however, there is currently not enough conclusive evidence to prove BF exists. And that's a perfectly fine point Bitpo. But I can't be the only one who reads spite and bitterness in almost everything written by your Lead Peanut Gallery Cheerleader. Sarcasm, derision and downright nastiness doesn't just come from nowhere. And methinks it doesn't help when calling for robotic, unbiased, pure science on one hand while on the other repeatedly arguing from emotion. It's transparent. It's silly.

It just comes from responding one too many times to people who just talk past you. It is indeed transparent, and it is indeed silly. One might try coming on here somewhat better informed before one spouts that one is right, and stops listening to all the indicators that one might be wrong.

If you're getting upset here, might want to see why that is. I have nothing but fun here, and I've noticed I never have to call somebody else bitter or nasty to make myself feel better. Unless they richly deserve it.

Now if you had a shred of information that we could do something with here, you'd need not at all to resort to emotion (that would be you, not me). What makes me think that isn't going anywhere?

http://www.sott.net/...ith-Stan-Gordon

http://ufoexperience...nd-bigfoot.html

http://www.squidoo.com/bigfootbooks

http://buynightvisio...t-research-area

Bipto, you are claiming that these Bigfoot-is-an-Alien reports are not happening.

You must have forgotten that Erik Beckjord had an entire following of people that believed bigfoot was an alien, it 'bzzt' in and out of our dimension at will.

You mock these reports, and say you don't ever get them. I understand why you say that. It does not look good for someone who is claiming Bigfoot is a real, giant hairy beast with superhuman abilities, to say that people that claim Bigfoot is an Alien have no basis to say such things.

Why is your sighting of a creature that can live in populated areas of America, detect cameras, dodge bullets, and outsmart the tactically minded humans, any more viable than someone who claims Bigfoot is a monitored space alien drone?

Man, I can see what the real "Operation Persistence" is here. Drew! Decaf! We just ended this discussion.

Edited April 8, 2013 by DWA

[Guest]

Bipto, you are claiming that these Bigfoot-is-an-Alien reports are not happening.

No, I said they were in the vast minority. And you haven't done anything but dig up some marginal characters making a connection. This conversation is about your assertion that we're sitting on a bunch of UFO/bigfoot reports because we're afraid of how it looks. Where are they? Show me the money, Drew. I'd like to see these reports. Because I can show you a couple hundred from my site and a few thousand from the old BFRO days, let alone those from the literature, that have no UFO/paranormal aspect whosoever.

You must have forgotten that Erik Beckjord had an entire following of people that believed bigfoot was an alien, it 'bzzt' in and out of our dimension at will.

Sure he did. And that means exactly what to the large number of people who aren't off their meds looking for an animal? As I said, you can find fringe people in all circles of interest and endeavor. Every one. You've decided, for whatever reason, to use these fringe people to dismiss all accounts from all people from all time. It's irrational. And I think you know it.

You mock these reports, and say you don't ever get them. I understand why you say that. It does not look good for someone who is claiming Bigfoot is a real, giant hairy beast with superhuman abilities, to say that people that claim Bigfoot is an Alien have no basis to say such things.

We don't. Not ever. Not one, to the NAWAC. Those of us who were in the BFRO say they never came in there, either. Not once, before 2006. So now we're at an impasse. You're pulling something out of your orifice and I'm making an official statement as the representative of my organization. The NAWAC, regardless of what Drew thinks, gets zero reports of a supernatural nature. Not a one.

Readers can weigh these two things for themselves.

Why is your sighting of a creature that can live in populated areas of America, detect cameras, dodge bullets, and outsmart the tactically minded humans, any more viable than someone who claims Bigfoot is a monitored space alien drone?

My sighting was in a very un-populated area. Please try to keep your facts straight. With regard to reports of them in more populated areas, as I've already said to you, each report needs to be judged based on its context. Should we dismiss reports of cougar and bear in more populated areas? Your overgeneralization betrays your inability to think critically about this and/or your prejudice against data that doesn't support your worldview. As far as avoiding cameras (not detecting them), what are we to make of other animals that do the same thing? Are those researchers who have reported coyotes and other primates staying away from cameras deluding themselves? Because, to you, it sounds impossible? Also, have you read a thing I've said about the high failure rate of game cameras? Or done even the barest amount of your own research into how they work? As far as dodging bullets go, at least one didn't. Say anything more on that topic and show everyone how little you know about how responsible people hunt with firearms. With regard to tactics, take some time and study up on how chimps work in teams and make plans and make war on one another. Then tell me how crazy it is to make the assumption that another primate could do the same.

As I said above, you are the one who wants to fuse the fantastic and the mundane and reject the entire mass as a result. Some of us have mental filters able to pull the nonsense out. But not you, apparently. To you, it's all a jumbled bouillabaisse of confusing facts and assertions. That's too bad.

Edited April 8, 2013 by bipto

[Guest DWA]

Still waiting for the first bigfoot skeptic who shows true analytic chops. Afraid it's gonna be a looooooooooong wait.

[Guest]

Drew, this is waiting on your attention.

Quick question, Drew. Because of the vast number of links that come up with I search "reports of animals doing supernatural things" on Google, should I doubt any reported behavior of dogs, cats, horses, rabbits, goldfish, and parakeets? Just because there's a fraction of people out there who say things like this, should I dismiss any and all reports of these animals activities? I expect I should, based on your logic. Help me out here. Please, as you say, show your work.

[the parkie]

I don't think there's any evidence they're more elusive than gorillas or chimps. Lowland gorillas specifically haven't been studied nearly as much as mountain gorillas due to the difficulties in finding and tracking them. Chimps can be very elusive. Wood apes in our research area have been seen and heard and otherwise are known to be there. To us, all this sounds about the same.

Gorillas, chimpanzees, and bonobos are being hunted to extinction for commercial bushmeat in the equatorial forests of west and central Africa. The Bushmeat Project estimate as many as 8000 great apes this year may be taken. That would suggest to me that they cannot be anywhere near as elusive as wood apes.

[dmaker]

BITTER!?!?!?!? Excuse much?

I am the most content with the state of things of practically anyone I read here. Particularly somebody who thinks it's all bunkum, and comes back and comes back and comes back and comes back and comes back and comes back ...to score zero points in the discussion.

Frustrated much?

No proof? Weakest sauce out there, as proven by the International Sauce Chefs association. Care to wait until the proof's in? Impatient much?

So you think Drew is right on. Not going to get your scientist merit badge that way, I'm affeered.

One thing I love about you guys: your inability to tell when you are being toyed with. Clue much?

Who exactly awards these points? You? Not too hard to see why anyone disagrees with you gets zero points. I'm not trying to be rude, but points awarded by you in a discussion on Bigfoot don't hold that much currency with me.

[Guest]

Gorillas, chimpanzees, and bonobos are being hunted to extinction for commercial bushmeat in the equatorial forests of west and central Africa. The Bushmeat Project estimate as many as 8000 great apes this year may be taken. That would suggest to me that they cannot be anywhere near as elusive as wood apes.

How many natives versed in the movements and tactics of wood apes are hunting them for their meat in North America?

[Cotter]

^Exactly Bipto. Additionally, what is the population comparison between the 2 species? So now we've got a fraction of the 'hunters' out there going for them, and a fraction of the population....makes for some very small percentages as I'm sure you are fully aware.

[Guest DWA]

Gorillas, chimpanzees, and bonobos are being hunted to extinction for commercial bushmeat in the equatorial forests of west and central Africa. The Bushmeat Project estimate as many as 8000 great apes this year may be taken. That would suggest to me that they cannot be anywhere near as elusive as wood apes.

How many natives versed in the movements and tactics of wood apes are hunting them for their meat in North America?

Exactly, and I just said this today, maybe on another thread although who cares: animals that are hunted for bush meat are because: it's agreed that they exist; people persist in tracking them until they find them because first, the people are hungry and second, they are satisfied the animals exist; and finally, when they share information, the information is believed, and followed up upon, because all involved are in agreement that the animals exist.

[Guest]

Still waiting for DWA to admit to being bitter....er....wait. You do, in so many words. "It just comes from responding one too many times to people who just talk past you." Sure. Fair enough. At least it's out there. DWA ~ "If you're getting upset here, might want to see why that is." Hehe....tell ya what, if I ever do get upset, I'll take you up on that and try to "see why that is." Seriously, I was just making the observation that, in the discussion of BF and the OP thread here specifically, your attitude/argument (who can tell the difference at this point?) screams anything but unbiased or cold logic. This doesn't further the discussion. Rather, the discussion goes on in spite of you, not because of you. Your arguments are hostile and sarcastic. Methinks BF may well exist, but it won't be brought to light by anyone frothing at the keyboard day in and day out, then claiming to be scientific.

[Guest DWA]

Thanks. Take a number. And come back when you really have something that we need to consider on this topic. You seem to think you do, so I'm hoping we won't have to wait long.

(No evidence supporting what they think, they cut to personalities. Happens all the time...)

[Drew]

How many natives versed in the movements and tactics of wood apes are hunting them for their meat in North America?

Zero, because native hunters need to provide for their families, they can't afford to go hunting for something that doesn't exist.

Drew, this is waiting on your attention.

Quick question, Drew. Because of the vast number of links that come up with I search "reports of animals doing supernatural things" on Google, should I doubt any reported behavior of dogs, cats, horses, rabbits, goldfish, and parakeets? Just because there's a fraction of people out there who say things like this, should I dismiss any and all reports of these animals activities? I expect I should, based on your logic. Help me out here. Please, as you say, show your work.

Post #2012