Operation Persistence

[Guest]

bipto, thanks very much for responding to questions here. Very enlightening.

[Guest Orygun]

Rock throwing:

Has an of the team members been hit by a thrown rock? I seem to recall reading or hearing that some may have started to wear helmets because of the rocks.

[Guest]

Some members have started to wear helmets, not just to protect against thrown rocks but because the terrain is pretty difficult to get over in places and falls aren't uncommon. I don't think anyone's been hit by a rock, though. Some have landed close, though.

[Guest]

Do they move out of the area as winter moves in or are they apparent all year round?

If the latter, have any members given thought to spending time there in the colder months?

My apologies if already answered...

[Guest COGrizzly]

I would lay a bet I have driven those roads more than anyone else here. I may have walked more of Shenandoah National Park than any living person. All the trails, most three times or more, only begins to touch it. Toss a dart at a map of SNP. It will hit a spot I have been. Wanna bet?

I've often felt the same about an area around here called Red and White, a part of the White River National Forest. It's also where I saw those tracks. I counted one time how many times I'd gone up the road to R/W by ATV, Jeep, snowmobile and my own personal vehicle and it was over 1400. But I only guided for 5 years total. Some guys have over 20 years under their belt.

So, have you had any kind of encounter DWA?

[Guest DWA]

I've often felt the same about an area around here called Red and White, a part of the White River National Forest. It's also where I saw those tracks. I counted one time how many times I'd gone up the road to R/W by ATV, Jeep, snowmobile and my own personal vehicle and it was over 1400. But I only guided for 5 years total. Some guys have over 20 years under their belt.

So, have you had any kind of encounter DWA?

Not an encounter. I've had what I might charitably call three pieces of evidence.

• One was a trackline in a remote area of NoCal that, if they were tracks (old), and I've never seen anything that looked more like tracks, a biped a lot heavier than the two of us made them. Couldn't make out toes, but they were hominid-shaped and left, right, left, right...pine duff obscured them; the pattern was more important to me than detail; and I was a lot more skeptical then. Before I found out that their tracks are generally far more impressed than ours in a given substrate, I thought it disqualifying that my gf and I didn't even dent that soil with lug boots and heavy packs. Pictures? At that time there was no place to send them (Forest Service? riiiiiiiight). And on a week so bright that we saw more bears the last day than clouds the whole week, those woods were so dark I couldn't take (pre-digital) a hand-held shot.
  
• Two trees jammed vertically, roots up, in a creek bank on the Calvert County/Anne Arundel line, MD. No evidence humans or the elements were responsible (I mean perpendicular); and similar stuff has been associated with sasquatch in the PNW and Alaska.
  
• A possible call in NJ. Sounded like a siren until the ending, which made me go, that's natural. It repeated one more time. Think Ohio Howl only higher-pitched.
  

I wouldn't go to the bank with any of the three, but they were interesting. It's really what I've read that brings me here more than this.

But as evidence of how well I know Shenandoah NP:

http://208.109.31.181/GDB/show_report.asp?id=31631

The guy doesn't say which overlooks but I can tell from the report the ones he's talking about. The knocks he describes were all within the Park, and not near any road nor trail. Cool story, bro, without additional evidence. But they sure weren't woodpeckers, or woodcutters.

• 
  

[Guest]

My apologies if already answered...

It has, but then again, they all have.

Do they move out of the area as winter moves in or are they apparent all year round?

If the latter, have any members given thought to spending time there in the colder months?

We believe they're there all year round, but we aren't. We have shorter, more intermittent groups in over the winter months. Probably not enough to draw significant conclusions from.

[Guest SmokeyMntnHooch]

I tell ya if I had a group that went out and did have some extraordinary encounter I don't think I'd mention a word of it on here. When you have nattering nabobs that demand you answer every question they have and then that's not good enough and they demand POLICE REPORTS just to "verify" the claims that are made are what's actually taking place or wanting to ensure that the proper actions ere taken, what's the upside of telling about your project? I can't see one.

I agree with what was mentioned earlier, they aren't wanting questions answered they are fishing around for details about who the owner of Area x is or where exactly it is so they can go and nose around the area.

Oh well, with friends like these......

Nalajr

Goodness, this +1 if I had any to give.

No wonder the community can't get anywhere. We hate each other more than the Scientific community. We are by far our own worst enemy.

Bipto, I just stopped by to thank you for your continuing patience.Your team is doing some of the best research in the field right now and I leave you with nothing but encouragement and positivity. Continue your studies, sir.

Hooch.

Edited December 3, 2012 by See-Te-Cah NC
Staff Edit to remove unacceptable content.

[Ike]

My sentiments exactly.

Edited December 3, 2012 by See-Te-Cah NC
To remove previously-quoted material.

[Guest]

I was thinking about how to set up a camera without them seeing you doing it. What if a group went out with a pop up tent or blind of some sort, the camera, and those backwards masks mentioned a few posts ago.

find your location and set up blind

set up camera and put on masks

come out of blind and act like your trying to fool them with backwards masks (might work on tigers but i think BF is to observant for that...never know though)

take down blind

backward mask experiment is over, go back to cabin

leaving camera

ps. if this works i want copys (just kidding kindof)

[Guest Nalajr]

Bipto, I have one other question I have been thinking about. I heard it mentioned or read it that on the property there are hunting cabins. Can you say whether there are active hunters at the place or were these cabins for friends and family of the owner to use? I ask because I wonder if it was some sort of hunting operation in the past or near past, did the owner get any reports from his "guests" about strange happenings or hunters seeing something out of the ordinary while there chasing deer or bear?

OOPS, one more. Have any tree stands been used in the area to try and get above the noses of Sassy to better see them? They have climbing stands now that you can put on your back and carry with you to whatever tree you want to get in. I would certainly try that approach in the future if it hasn't been tried already.

Scent control would also be paramount for everyone going into the woods to look and place cameras and such. Animals that are as wary and skittish as Sassy reportedly is would almost certainly have a **** good nose and efforts must be taken to defeat that.

Nalajr

[Guest]

As far as scent goes, a quick way to reduce the human scent is to stand in the campfire smoke.Most animals are used to the smell of wood smoke from forest fires, especially in areas being logged where they burn the slash piles in late fall/early winter. Another little trick is to throw your clothes in a garbage bag with leaves, dirt and other natural material for a while to cover the scent of soap and other human scents.

Edited December 4, 2012 by squatting squatch

[Guest]

Bipto, I just stopped by to thank you for your continuing patience.Your team is doing some of the best research in the field right now and I leave you with nothing but encouragement and positivity. Continue your studies, sir.

Thanks. Appreciate it.

...I wonder if it was some sort of hunting operation in the past or near past, did the owner get any reports from his "guests" about strange happenings or hunters seeing something out of the ordinary while there chasing deer or bear?

Yes, some of the encounter reports we have from the are are from hunters.

Have any tree stands been used in the area to try and get above the noses of Sassy to better see them?

We had a member in a tree stand during Endurance who, while being pretty high up, had rocks and sticks thrown at him. He had an older NV set on and could make out the sticks as they flew by him. Apparently, the locals didn't like him up there. In any event, he could make out the sounds of movement around him but couldn't see anything. Again, the NV was old (gen one, I think) and the understory is dense.

Scent control would also be paramount for everyone going into the woods to look and place cameras and such. Animals that are as wary and skittish as Sassy reportedly is would almost certainly have a **** good nose and efforts must be taken to defeat that.

Personally, I don't put much stock in the notion that they have vastly superior senses of smell. Probably better than ours since they haven't been subjected to environmental degradation like ours have been, but primates in general don't have senses of smell that are all that good, relatively speaking. I think their vision, especially at night, is much better than ours and they have a excellent understanding of their environment and surroundings which obviously gives them an advantage over us in the same circumstances, but I don't believe smell is a part of that.

[Guest]

On this general theme, Bipto, do you think they can be 'surprised'? Or are they always going to be aware of our presence before we become aware of them? Just curious as usual.

[Guest]

No, they're not perfect. In particular, we think they might have an issue keeping track of multiple people at the same time. We speculate that the rock throwing is, at times, a tactic meant to "stir us up" so they can count us up again.