Guest Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 (edited) Vielen Dank mein Herr für die ausgezeichnet Links. i have not seen many of those from the older thread in this Subject. Many interesting images there. Also the Link that Hairy posted as well. Amazing, that these go all the way back to earliest Christianity and even the Greek and Romans. WOW I had no idea. It is little wonder we are still seeing and talking about these "wildmen" today. Vielen Dank noch einmal. Thanks Adam good links Edited September 24, 2012 by Skunkfoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kronprinz Adam Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 (edited) I've often wondered if the werewolf legends from Europe originate from a mis-identification of BF. The descriptions are similar, large and covered with hair, howls at night. And the part about them turning back into a human after killed. They kill a BF thinking it's a werewolf and when they see it, it looks like a human, and they think it's turning back into a human from it's werewolf form. Hi Rockape!!! I have had similar ideas, after reading very old french accounts of wildmen (Pyrinees, the alpine regions and central france)...the typical account goes more or less like this: a person or hunter, traveling deep into the forest, encountered a non-speaking hairy human... European mythology is quite interesting, going back in time we could find interesting things... 1. Satyrs, half-men and half beast, well known in the antiquity. (I recall a story I saw in a TV program about Syria or Lebanon, there was some natural reserve, a very beatiful water spring with a small lake and some caves behind. The documentary explained that the place was called, in the time of roman empire, "the satyr's cave", because there was the belief that a satyr (a trogloyte?) lived on that particular cave!!!! 2. Wild men, trolls, "bear-men" from pre-christian europe (it seems people made costumes and performed dances dressed like these hairy men)...I also find very suspicious that germanic europe had some versions of hairy wild beasts, (not very different from satyrs), which later emerged as the "companions" of St. Niklaus... but some folklorists think the whole stuff started with old pagan winter festivals...a benevolent god (Odin?) gave gifts to the children, but his companion (a wild beast under his control) had a whip and punished the kids who have been naughty!! It seems there was several versions of this in Germany, Austria and some parts of France and Italy... 3. Christian europe, the hairy men emerge again as holy men (!?), saints and hermits...meditation, faith and a total retirement into the woods, made the persons "hairy"... 4. Wild men emerge again in Middle Ages, as "Woodewasa" and as hairy men and women in heraldry...old coat of arms show one or two of these "wild men" carrying large sticks...not very different from our modern concept of a cavemen!!! It seems the idea soon evolved into another mythical character: the green men of the woods!!! (a protector of nature?) 5. Wild men in russian and slavic folklore... Of course I do not know if any of these examples (which are at the moment just folklore and mythology) could be connected with real Neanderthaloids...I think we cannot state such thing until scientific evidence is found about Neanderthaloid creatures surviving until historical times, or a scientist find conclusive evidence about Almastys in the Caucasus or Central Asia. My point is, this folklore idea of the wild men seems to transform and recycle itself through the ages, according to the ideas of a particular era. What if, in some age of fear and wolf attacks, people got a glimpse of the same creatures in the woods and associated them with hairy werewolves? Best regards. K. Adam. PD. There is very interesting book with all these specific topics from a mexican anthropologist, "The wildman in the looking glass, the mythic origins of european otherness" by Roger Bartra. Contemporary depiction of a Woodewasa by Hanna & Barbera Edited September 26, 2012 by Kronprinz Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 This was a fascinating read, this post was. Thank you for that everyone! +100 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wudewasa Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 (edited) In the past, people have referred to accounts of relict neanderthal populations in northern Europe, referencing Michael Crichton's book "Eaters of the Dead," which was adapted into the movie "The13th Warrior." This is fiction, Ibn Fadlan never encountered a group called the Wendol, which were described as neanderthals wearing bear skins. This link discusses Fadlan's account of the Norse, and addresses the inaccuracies that have arisen from the novel and movie. http://www.vikingans.../ibn_fdln.shtml Here is another good perspective of this document- http://www.uib.no/ja...025Montgom1.htm Hopefully, this clears things up! Edited September 26, 2012 by wudewasa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kronprinz Adam Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 (edited) Dear Wudewasa!!! Great links!!! I liked a lot the one from the CERBI, "The Wildman an european perspective!...I have read a lot of papers from "Center of the initial bipedalism" about wildmen, satyrs, folklore, old european tales, and depictions of hairy people in european art and architecture...but most of the material was in french... Dear Skunkfoot!! Viele Grüsse aus Guatemala, und schön dass meine Fotos und Weblinks haben dich gefallen!!! [Greetings from Guatemala, and it was nice that you liked my fotos and links] Dear Bruce!! It is also quite nice for me to discuss all of these subjects with all the forum members!!! It is quite interesting to discuss not only cryptozoology, but also folklore, myths and anthropology. I also find this fascinating!!! Regarding to your question, (and according to the documentary I saw) there is a chance of examining the DNA of Zana descendants...the technology is available since the end of the 90s!!! I think that checking this DNA can give us some proof if the DNA of the descendants have traces of other species,it would be possible to compare this with, let us say, neanderthals and denisovans. What about mitochondrial DNA? I'm not an expert, but I remember well that this DNA is inherited from the mother. So I hope it would be possible to get Zana's DNA with this method... I have also a nice story that I found today on the Web, when looking for reports and folklore of wild men on the Pyrinees. This is a report from Spain: 2. Incidents in the Vicinity of Bielsa A well-known case occurred in the region known as Peña Montañesa (Huesca) in the Aragonese Pyrenees. This is peaceful area that is only visited by shepherds and their flocks. On May 4, 1993, a group of six woodcutters came across a strange creature standing 1.7 meters tall in this wilderness. According to Manuel Cazcarra, one of the workers, they were cutting trees when “around 15:45 hours, I suddenly heard screams, sharp screams like those of a wild goat. We thought that one such animal had fallen off a cliff, and I went over to see what had happened. When I saw it, it was climbing a pine tree, holding a branch with its hands and feet. It screamed. A 90-meter distance separated us from the creature. I summoned my companions to come and see, and the first of them was Ramiro Lopez, who arrived in time to see the being descend from the tree to hide behind a large bush. The rest of my companions came over, but were unable to see it. However, they had to dodge a tree-trunk violently hurled at them, undoubtedly by the monkey man.†These are the simple and exact words used by a man who has seen bears, although these have become scarce in the Spanish Pyrenees. He was sure that it could not be a bear or any other known animal in the Pyrenaic fauna Source: http://inexplicata.blogspot.com/2011/06/spain-searching-for-bigfoot-in.html http://inexplicata.blogspot.com/2011/06/spain-bigfoot-in-aragonese-pyrenees.html Best regards!! K. Adam. Edited September 27, 2012 by Kronprinz Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest petrazg Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Hello everybody! ( i never thought i'd be "able" to write something on this forum, but i guess the time has come ) .. having greater interest in this field i've been doing more and more research lately, and i am amazed what kind of cryptids habitat the states and in which areas. anyway, i've already forgotten some of the stories i've came across few years back, and now everything makes more sense. i really don't see the reason why those creatures couldn't habitat europe. i am sure there are much more sightings than listed online. too bad no one comes forward. i have some "recent" werewolf stories from bosnia but i have to dig them out from other forums. btw. regarding mentioned vedi and other mentioned "legends" of croatian region, i must say, the story is a bit "over" regarding some points ( vedi helping people, but could make stormy winds that blew up rooftops ) as any folklore stories, and djevojke as vile ( or english fairies ) are present in all european folklore. i hope i'll find time to visit bilogora and find out more about vedi, and let you know. p.s. i'm croatian, so i appologize for my "not so perfect" english Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest petrazg Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 (edited) +/- edited (language) story. 1991. They were in the barrack in Macedonia,at the border with Albania, away from everything. There was little fear of irredentism, but a long time nothing happened. Miles and miles around them there was nothing, not a single village or house, however,a heaven on earth. That night a shot was heard from one of the guards on the guarding position. Immediately they all stormed out (they were awake, playing cards) and ran in the direction of where two of their comrades were on guard, not so far. The shooting, the normal yelling and calling on their part. These ran as fireing bursts into the air, just to make attackers realize that help is arriving. They arrived on the scene and laid down, fired in the darkness in the direction of where one of their comrades on guard shot. When they realized that nobody fires back from the opposite side they stopped, but did not move for a while. Then Alex realized one of the guards was missing. Soon, however, they heard him calling some 50-meters away. When they found him, they saw his bloody chest so they began to carry him back to the barrack. Normal, they immediately thought that he was hit. But the lieutenant returned a little back and invited two other men with him. After a few moments they saw them carrying a woman with him. In the barrack is still one of them, just to mention. When they arrived to the barrack they had someting to see. All shuttered, all torn out and campagnol all destroyed. No trace of guy that had stayed. Panic, how to understand it completely. They descended the wounded one on their bed, and that woman to another. They realized that he was not hit by a bullet in the chest but severely bitten. A woman was unconscious but not hurt. It's been awhile in trouble, Alex went to the bedside of his friend, who gotten to his sense and started to tell him what happened. Just quietly in confidence but with fear and panic in his voice, said that they were attacked by wolves. Alex thought he was raving crazy, right, but when he thought about it, he realized that his friend was bitten. In the meantime, the woman woke up and talked to the lieutenant. She said that was supposedly a journalist and that irredentists attacked and killed two of her colleagues and she was running away and accidentally happened what happened. Stumbled on their Guard. And then the shooting started. Lieutenant immediately ordered they all pack and leave (except the two who will remain in the barracks with the injured) and head toward the second guard post (there were two others but a bit further away) .. They left and after a few minutes,lieutenant sent 2 of them back to take more batteries from the barrack. When they returned back all three men were slaughtered and woman nowhere to be found. At that moment they heard it again; the shooting, the yelling, the groaling . Both were devoured by vomiting, panicking. They did not know what to do. Then this guy, that was with Alex, said they should flee through the back to civilization that was at least 10 kms away through the woods and up. The car was messed up, so on foot. Then everything stopped; and gunfire and the shrieking and wailing. They began walking, first slowly, then runing. After a couple of minutes they heard howling and getting closer and closer .. They ran and ran the air was chilly and then he realized that something is very close, very rapidly cutting through the undergrowth in the woods slightly behind them, he could hear it as some kind of growling. They still ran down the road, and on one and the other side of the road was a dense forest. It was already daybreaking, and in one moment, 20 meters in front of them, something so great stood and they have gotten into such fear and fight for life immediately fired several bullets in that direction. He says it was a terrible roar, the shadow fled and they continued. Then it all started again and they were tired (although the army obtains very good condition, I know for myself) .. Just now it was all louder(org. stronger) like the whole pack of wild hogs running through the woods, but this was growling. Suddenly he noticed that he is some 10-meters faster than his companion, he turned around and saw a few shadows fall on this guy. He(the other guy) screamed, fired few shots and then he (alex) could hear only growling. Alex stood rooted to the spot and the shadows stood still and he saw their glowing eyes. Raised his automatic gun and began to shoot. The eyes fled into the woods. He continued to run like he got this extra power, all the night was turning into day more and more. After a while he heard nothing more from behind . Dawn had arrived and he greatly slowed, so he sat down and lit a cigarette. At this point he didn't have a clue what to think and what happened. After some time, he threw the gun away and took off his uniform and soon arrived to the first houses. There has told people that he had deserted from the army, they helped him and he later moved to Bosnia. The author of this story, continued to fight in Bosnia for 3 more years. In the end he ended in the mental institution. I don't know if the story is true, but it came ( in the same form ) from few totally different sources. + this could be seen as pack of wolves but then, there are more similar stories , that i'll post tomorrow. sorry for the bad translation ( google translator edited, it's too much to do on my own ) btw. i know this is a bigfoot forum, but if there are some kind of big creatures like that above... Edited October 29, 2012 by petrazg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Very interesting story petrazg, and welcome!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 I have been living in Europe "Germany" my whole life. I think that there could be a creature in Russia/Eurasia and Yugoslavia. Skandinavia could also be possible. But never in middle Europe. LIke others have posted, there is just to much farmland and most of the forests here are grommed and not natural and wild anymore. I do believe there used to be BF like creatures in Europe but they either died off or migrated into eurasia/russia a long time ago. I also agree that werwolf and wildman stories might have been BF related. It´s pretty sad when I go out into the forest, its hard to find untouched places. So thats why I dream of going out to the pacific northwest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest petrazg Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 (edited) after going through this (other) forum, i've summarized some more stories... there are many wolf like creature sightings especially in SE/E Bosnia around primeval forests. There is one testimony from this guy who was on front there and they were watching the enemy in the village in front of them, when a group of those creatures came and brutally killed them all ( the enemy ). the next morning they found just one body half eaten, with bite marks. two more stories from two other guys who lived around that area is quite similar. they talk about stories about this creatures, heard from soldiers and other locals, known as really big wolves, appearing on that area during the war ( and before ), (soldiers) "they mention dreadful sounds ( growls ), soldiers disapearing, finding mutilated bodies." The same horrors were happening on both sides. "The worst thing about all of this is that all the soldiers were talking about the same thing - a very hairy creatures like big wolves." The last wolf in that area was seen in 1960. then there are few stories about this big black hairy creature; 2m high with really really wide shoulders and a waste, that growls, with shining eyes ( "like the cat ones" ) ( soldier on guard while serving military in the middle of nowhere ), then this kids also saw a big black hairy creature on a cemetery on the edge of the wood that was also growling, and later dead animals were found in the wood. then there is some stories on only hearing some kind of big creature howling ( the guy said it sounded like predator ). i must say, once i heard some kind of scary howl and it sounds just like it. ( and i couldn't sign it to any know animal ) this kids were playing in the woods and building somekind of tree house, and this kid was up on a tree and in the "distance" he saw this big black creature with big red glowing eyes. they found big tracks and torn down trees the next day. and the last one, maybe most interesting... 60 years ago this guy was on guard with a friend ( military training ) somewhere near the yu/hungarian border ( vedi stories! ) when they heard something in the bushes. when they took a lamp to see what it is and they saw a big black hairy creature that made a terrifying growl and dissapeared into the woods. they described it as an ape-man. later no one saw it but other soldiers witnessed those howls. Edited October 30, 2012 by petrazg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Now hear me out, i live in the U.K and although I am interested in the bigfoot phenomena, i acknowledge that there is no sasquatch in my neck of the woods. But, near where i live is a place called cannock chase, it's basically a huge, protected wilderness area a mixture of thick forest, open heath and fields. It's truly a fantastic place not least because of the abundance of wildlife that lives there, the chases icon, however are it's huge deer herds. There are five species of deer living on the chase, red, fallow,roe, muntjack and sika. The most abundant are the fallow, which i have had the pleasure of seeing numerous times. For the past few years there have been reports of large, hair coverd bipeds roaming the chase, even some of the forestry comission officers that work there who are friends of the family have had sightings. Also, occasionally people stumble across deer which have obviously been killed and eaten by a large predator, one of my friends who works on the chase confirmed this, and even said someones dog went missing on the chase, when the rangers found it it looked as though it had been 'savaged to death' in his own words. Here are some pictures of the Chase and it's inhabitants. What do you think? Could there be big guys living here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest petrazg Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 i don't see why not. there are many sightings in the uk. and if you go and read a lot of reports from the states you'll notice they aren't always in large remote wooded areas. you can always take a walk around and look for "signs". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 i don't see why not. there are many sightings in the uk. and if you go and read a lot of reports from the states you'll notice they aren't always in large remote wooded areas. you can always take a walk around and look for "signs". Unfortunately i don't have the freedom i used to have, i can't go trailing through the chase with my dogs nearly as often as I used to. But, i still have my friend who routinely works there, i'll have to speak to him and see if anything new has developed. I'll post back if it has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MikeG Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 But, near where i live is a place called cannock chase, it's basically a huge, protected wilderness area a mixture of thick forest, open heath and fields. Huge? 26 sq miles of protected land (think 5 miles long by 5 miles wide), less than half of which is wooded, and criss-crossed by a multitude of footpaths, roads and cycle trails. It is used by hundreds of walkers and cyclists every day. Now, if there is one unknown creature in there, there has to be a breeding population, else it soon wouldn't be there. So, let's say a couple of adult males, a couple of adult females, and some off-spring. Ten individuals, just for arguments sake (and never minding the inbreeding issues........). That is roughly one carnivore per square mile, and probably at least one or two kills necessary per week. Don't you think someone might have noticed? Let's get real........... Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Huge? 26 sq miles of protected land (think 5 miles long by 5 miles wide), less than half of which is wooded, and criss-crossed by a multitude of footpaths, roads and cycle trails. It is used by hundreds of walkers and cyclists every day. Now, if there is one unknown creature in there, there has to be a breeding population, else it soon wouldn't be there. So, let's say a couple of adult males, a couple of adult females, and some off-spring. Ten individuals, just for arguments sake (and never minding the inbreeding issues........). That is roughly one carnivore per square mile, and probably at least one or two kills necessary per week. Don't you think someone might have noticed? Let's get real........... Mike Yeah I agree the sightings in my opinion are probably just people bull ********, and my friend said that whilst strange the deer kills could have been dogs, but still it would be fun if they were there. And the place is huge at least from my perspective, people have gotten lost and died in there before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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