Guest Posted September 29, 2012 Posted September 29, 2012 What i saw , was dull red. What bothers (and amazes) me, is there was no light source shined on it (happened too fast), and only ambient starlight was present. Question... If these creatures do have a tapetum lucidum, is collected ambient starlight enough to cause dull red eye shine with no brighter light source reflecting on the eyes ?.. or is something else going on that no one understands yet ?
Guest mdhunter Posted September 29, 2012 Posted September 29, 2012 ^ In the rabbits it is plenty without tapetum. And it will be red/ deep amber. The amber would be similar looking to a pic of artwork somebody posted in a thread about what BF look like. If the eyes are similarly constructed I don't find these claims unusual at all.Keep in mind I inspect a couple thousand rabbit eyes a year for abnormalities/defects. It just doesn't strike me as odd or paranormal. I've watched animals in the night many times and spotted them at 50-60 yards from starlight reflecting on tapetum. The rabbit the woman was commenting on with "glowing eyes" had blue/grey eyes by classification. They didn't appear to glow to us. I asked her what rabbit she was talking about because I was intrigued by her observation. I think things can just appear different to different people.
Guest Posted September 29, 2012 Posted September 29, 2012 The red eye thing has bothered me. I know for a fact their eyes dont glow in the dark, any color, period. If I ever get a bright light on one at night I will definitely look for eyeshine. So you've never seen one in the dark, but you know for a fact? People have seen this, and they "know for a fact" also. So to me is looks like we really don't know yet. . . and that's a fact.
Guest Posted September 29, 2012 Posted September 29, 2012 ^ In the rabbits it is plenty without tapetum. And it will be red/ deep amber. The amber would be similar looking to a pic of artwork somebody posted in a thread about what BF look like. If the eyes are similarly constructed I don't find these claims unusual at all.Keep in mind I inspect a couple thousand rabbit eyes a year for abnormalities/defects. It just doesn't strike me as odd or paranormal. I've watched animals in the night many times and spotted them at 50-60 yards from starlight reflecting on tapetum. The rabbit the woman was commenting on with "glowing eyes" had blue/grey eyes by classification. They didn't appear to glow to us. I asked her what rabbit she was talking about because I was intrigued by her observation. I think things can just appear different to different people. That's interesting, and an answer I was hoping to hear. I'm not looking for a paranormal explanation, but rather.. a logical one. I've never yet had the experience (before this past spring) of spotting an animals' eye shine in almost total darkness. As a birder, that has been out spotting night birds, I always needed an artificial light source, or some moonlight. It might have been, because my eyes were never fully dark adapted.. due to myself and others shining lights around. But even when I was out in the dark for hours (with dark adapted eyes), it (spotting eye shine) just never happened, until the incident I mentioned.
Guest Posted September 29, 2012 Posted September 29, 2012 Some great answers and food for thought on both sides of the argument, thank you for input and I will think about it some more. Cheers Paul
Guest mdhunter Posted September 29, 2012 Posted September 29, 2012 ^^ I have pretty good night vision. Blue eyes and astigmatism. My wife doesn't. In one of the outside meatpens we can both see the eyes "glow" on ruby eyed whites and a gold tipped steel from 60-80 ft. with a very small crescent moon and the hutch is covered, so it's ambient light not direct. Our rabbits aren't paranormal.If they were they'd disappear before they went to freezer camp. Forgot to mention about the piece of BF artwork that the rabbits pupils glow also. I agree it makes much more sense to look for logical possibilities before taking a leap.And I don't believe that every eyeshine report is mis-id of racoons,opossums or grey foxes(they can climb trees),birds and such. In that case there is the whole distance between eyes and angle the eyes are set in the skull to explain away.
Guest Posted September 30, 2012 Posted September 30, 2012 Eyeshine is from reflected light. When I say glow, I mean eyes that emit light. If the animal was there in darkness the eyes would be visible?
Guest mdhunter Posted September 30, 2012 Posted September 30, 2012 WW , If that is in response to me. I agree with you about eyes emitting light.They don't. My opinion is that it is human perception. That's why the claims don't strike me as odd. My point is that people witness this "glow" in something as common as domestic rabbits. And it is witnessed in virtually no light and in daylight. I know what it is, but they see it differently because they aren't accustomed to seeing it. It has to do with the ratio and arrangement of the rods and cones that magnifies available light reflecting back out through the red blood in the eyes. It creates quite a different effect than tapetum. It also allows better night vision. I'm trying to compare the same phenomena to a boring species that exhibits the trait depending on human perception. Human perception of dark can vary greatly and human perception of eyes can vary greatly,put it all together for a mystery. I find it interesting that seemingly intelligent people will jump off a cliff without thoroughly investigating known phenomena. I've learned about the rabbits eyes as a result of our breeding program.I've worked in the rabbit/poultry barn at our fair for several years and quietly listened to a very wide array of comments on the same animal from different people. At times can be so far off of reality as to assume a rex (velveteen) furred rabbit that was blowing it's coat had some kind of "porcupine" gene. To us it was just blowing it's coat and can't make the next show.
Guest Posted September 30, 2012 Posted September 30, 2012 (edited) So you've never seen one in the dark, but you know for a fact? People have seen this, and they "know for a fact" also. So to me is looks like we really don't know yet. . . and that's a fact. Ok breaking it down. Yup seen them in the dark. Never seen colored orbs of light reflected or otherwise near where they shadowy forms head area was. If and when I happen to put a light on a sasquatch face in the dark i will try my best to detect eyeshine. I am really trying to put my money where my mouth is AZ. I am out to get these animals on film and post it here. I have sent off hairs to be tested. Made contacts for getting camera and person(s) to the areas I know to have perennial activity. My honesty and integrity are unknown quantities here on an internet forum. That being said there are several members of this board who will be able to give you their viewpoint on me when we meet in real life. This isn't about telling stories for me. It is about doing what others haven't. So when I am a known quantity, let's have this discussion again? Edited September 30, 2012 by Woodswalker
Guest OntarioSquatch Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 There are many reports of Bigfoot eyeshine from credible people . The TBRC is an example. And I think so is Scott Herriott. He saw eyeshine during the day. At this point it's plausible. But at the same time it doesn't necessarily mean all Sasquatch have night vision.
kbhunter Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 This is my best eyeshine pic. We got this with a game cam and the area of the shine was aproximately 40 yards away. Also, it was about 7 feet or so high and was in road bed with not trees where it was standing. KB
salubrious Posted October 3, 2012 Moderator Posted October 3, 2012 Cool! Any chance of getting a shot of the same view, but during the day?
kbhunter Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 Well, I didn't think about that at the time because I wasn't really "looking" for BF. It was a hunting game cam and we had moved it long before I went back and looked through pics. You see, this was all new and I this was some of the pics we had that didn't make sense. I had many other weird pics that we deleted! You can read more in Member's experiences, South My journal from West Central GA. http://bigfootforums.com/index.php?/topic/307-my-journal-of-encounters-in-ga/http://bigfootforums.com/index.php?/topic/307-my-journal-of-encounters-in-ga/ KB
Guest Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 Cool pic KBH! One thing I've noticed is that the colour changes hue depending on where it's looking. If it's looking at you, it's a deep orangy red (think old car tail lights) but the further away it looks from where you are, it goes to an incandescent lightbulb type of off white. I've experimented with this a few times in my area now and it happens every time, I turn my head to make it look like I'm looking at something to my side, as far as I can while keeping my eyes on the eyeshine and it tends to look to see what I'm looking at. I have photo's of this, but since my camera doesn't know what to focus on, it's just a fuzzy dot in a sea of black. It sucks to not be able to get a clear pic, but I just don't know how to do that. At the distances I've taken pics, I can't see it through the eye piece or the lcd screen so along with the photo's of the fuzzy dots, I have a ton of photos of just black, it's a point, shoot and hope for the best type of deal. Cheers, Kraig
Guest mdhunter Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 Ok, I went outside last night to show an example of rabbit eyeshine. This is a crop of lower left corner of pic taken from about 40'.Sony a200, sigma 70-200mm lens @ 70mm. The exif data says 75mm because the lens has a newer model chip in it so it will work with the camera.I used an old flash on an adapter to try to over ride the flash program in the camera(didn't work).When actually taking the pic the eyes appear significantly brighter. It was very foggy and a misty rain. I got several pics that were just "greyouts" from the fog and a couple with "ghosts" and other rain/fog anomalies. The darker area in the middle of the red is the actual eye size. The rest is halo effect. This is a crop of a couple meatpens from Sony a100 with 17mm-70mm kit lens. Exif says 35mm equiv. of 52mm. This was approximately 80' under same conditions.With same result of not near as bright as seen with naked eye. The cameras program opens the shutter as the flash is falling. I don't know how to over ride that.It is enough to see that the color reflection as well as intensity can vary greatly in an animal with no tapetum. From white to yellow,orange, and red.There explanations for this effect.The rabbits in the fourth hole's eyes are about 3/16". The one on the far left is the one in the above crop (different pic) and is about 3/8". The red eye on far right is how they sometimes appear on a full moon to the naked eye and comparatively less bright as light levels drop. I am NOT SAYING PEOPLE ARE MISTAKING RABBITS FOR BF. I put these up because I have repeatedly watched people post in various forums that animals have to have tapetum to have eyeshine. Rabbits do not have tapetum. It is the closest known I have seen that is close to unexplained things I have seen. Therefore my theory about eye construction.If I picture these 3x or more their size... I'm not asking anybody to agree with me, just putting this info up so anybody can see it. Kb, thanks for the link to your journal. I personally appreciated it. I was looking for some of your stuff. You write like I talk in person. LOL. It had one thing in it that really stuck out to me. The crap on rocks in the middle of streams. "Darn acorn, meat eating freaks crappin' on rocks I want to stand on" was my best explanation.LOL. I knew it didn't make sense. And like you, I've deleted some very interesting trailcam pics. Yak, you can pic up the Sony A100 & 200 pretty cheap now. And the older Minolta lenses are cheap,pretty good and work with them. Allows much more control for pics in certain situations. And better quality. Megapixels ain't everything.
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