The Kill Club

[Guest keninsc]

That's what I'm talking about. Anyone who'd put stock in anything he says deserves what they get.

[norseman]

Agreed

[Guest keninsc]

I know a lot of people seem to think that all you have to do is dart one and you have your proof without having to kill the critter. Trouble is how big a dose can you give one that will knock him out quick before he gets away? How much is too much? What drug will anesthetize and not kill?

 

Too many people have seen guys on TV darting various creatures and have no idea that many a creature either got away or was killed by an overdose or a bad drug interaction. Yeah, they don't talk too much about those unfortunate details, just show the successes and it gives everyone the idea that it's no big hairy deal.

First lie? The squatch in the freezer gambit? No harm no foul.......we got suckered, it happens!

Now? If you believe the guy? You need your head examined!!!

 

Sadly, it seems there were quite a few who were taken in by him this last time as well. Makes you wonder about people, eh?

[norseman]

Not to mention you have to be a doctor to get the dosage

[Guest keninsc]

That's the other thing as well. I don't think any vet would be willing to write you a prescription for the drugs and say,"Now, you be real careful with that stuff."

Edited April 13, 2014 by keninsc

[norseman]

All of that comes after a bullet by a layman brings a body to science......

[Xion Comrade]

I never really understood #3. I don't believe those who support #3 actually have species protection as their ultimate goal.

 

I find some of them THINK it is their goal, but ultimately are not digging into their desire to kill one deep enough. I think the idea of killing one or just having to prove their existence to save them is naive to start with. If you kill one I am pretty sure it is certainly a illegal thing to do, seeing as how they are at least a undocumented species and possibly even a sort of human(which would be murder). You aren't going to be famous for it, you are going to be infamous, you aren't going to get rich, you wont even get to keep the things body. The body will not be the killer's property, but the US Governments for sure, and the situation will go from there. Considering the damage their discovery WILL do to the lumber industry(If not numerous others), it will likely be considered a issue of national security. Could ruin alot of lives, not to mention the bigfoots once we start trying to control and fidget around with them like we do everything else. That same impulse to control, manipulate, and fidget with everything is the same impulse people have to kill a *Insert mysterious/new species name here*.

Edited April 14, 2014 by Xion Comrade

[JKH]

Plussed.

[Guest keninsc]

I honestly think that if someone shot a Bigfoot and didn't have an actual plan in place, the powers that be would make that body disappear. Now if you keep your mouth shut, make arrangements before hand, then make a formal press conference where all your finding can be seen. Then the worst that can happen from the government at point is they'll have to act shocked and surprised as well.

 

I also think that whomever is tapped by fate to be the person who shots a Bigfoot and gets it in for verification will be pretty much treated as a pariah by those currently within the Bigfoot community. So I can only hope this person has access to some really good attorneys and a deep pocket to draw from.

[norseman]

I find some of them THINK it is their goal, but ultimately are not digging into their desire to kill one deep enough. I think the idea of killing one or just having to prove their existence to save them is naive to start with. If you kill one I am pretty sure it is certainly a illegal thing to do, seeing as how they are at least a undocumented species and possibly even a sort of human(which would be murder). You aren't going to be famous for it, you are going to be infamous, you aren't going to get rich, you wont even get to keep the things body. The body will not be the killer's property, but the US Governments for sure, and the situation will go from there. Considering the damage their discovery WILL do to the lumber industry(If not numerous others), it will likely be considered a issue of national security. Could ruin alot of lives, not to mention the bigfoots once we start trying to control and fidget around with them like we do everything else. That same impulse to control, manipulate, and fidget with everything is the same impulse people have to kill a *Insert mysterious/new species name here*.

 

Your dead wrong on all accounts.........

 

1) My desire to kill one is fully based on our current understanding of conservation, and is not based on fame or fortune. 

 

2) Your pretty sure it is illegal to kill one? I've called and talked to the US fish and wildlife, you need a permit to harvest or harass non game species for the purpose of scientific study, you also need credentials that qualifies you to do so. But this only applies to US wildlife refuges.......... Places such as the National Forests are administered by state fish and game agencies, and differ with each state. So what constitutes harassment? Chasing them around at night with a thermal camera? Wood knocking? Call blasting? I'm sure about nothing concerning this issue, and add in fifty states? It becomes a lawyer's nightmare.

 

3) Human? Does anyone want to date Patty? While it may come to pass upon examining a type speciman that it is a fellow member of the genus Homo? I'm positive it will not be classified as our own species. We would have to make new rules concerning what our understanding of a human is, based on DISCOVERY. If laws post type specimen were enacted to protect this species forever I would be behind that 200%. But I think that prosecution on the grounds of murder for a undiscovered species of giant proto hominid, that the government denied existed would be thrown out. I certainly take my chances concerning this issue with confidence.

 

4) You contradict yourself, if big industry doesn't want Sasquatch to be discovered? How can that be good for Sasquatch? Big industry doesn't want to add Sasquatch to their environmental impact studies because they are stealing HABITAT from Sasquatch!!!!!!!!!!! Discovery of Sasquatch will absolutely hurt big industry such as Weyerhauser, which will be a WIN for Sasquatch.

 

In closing, that is the whole point of this, discovery leads to conservation. I have challenged people many of times to show me a species that the endangered species act has hurt as opposed to helped.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endangered_Species_Act

 

Exemptions can and do occur. The ESA requires federal agencies to consult with the US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) or the National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS) if any project occurs in the habitat of a listed species. An example of such a project might be a timber harvest proposed by the US Forest Service. If the timber harvest could impact a listed species, a biological assessment is prepared by the Forest Service and reviewed by the FWS or NMFS or both.

The question to be answered is whether a listed species will be harmed by the action and, if so, how the harm can be minimized. If harm cannot be avoided, the project agency can seek an exemption from the Endangered Species Committee, an ad hoc panel composed of members from the executive branch and at least one appointee from the state where the project is to occur. Five of the seven committee members must vote for the exemption to allow taking (to harass, harm, pursue, hunt, shoot, wound, kill, trap, capture, or collect, or significant habitat modification,^[44] or to attempt to engage in any such conduct) of listed species.^[45]

Long before the exemption is considered by the Endangered Species Committee, the Forest Service, and either the FWS or the NMFS will have consulted on the biological implications of the timber harvest. The consultation can be informal, to determine if harm may occur; and then formal if the harm is believed to be likely. The questions to be answered in these consultations are whether the species will be harmed, whether the habitat will be harmed and if the action will aid or hinder the recovery of the listed species.^[46]

Northern Spotted Owl

If harm is likely to occur, the consultation evaluates whether "reasonable and prudent alternatives" exist to minimize harm. If an alternative does not exist, the FWS or NMFS will issue an opinion that the action constitutes "jeopardy" to the listed species either directly or indirectly. The project cannot then occur unless exempted by the Endangered Species Committee.

The Committee must make a decision on the exemption within 30 days, when its findings are published in the Federal Register. The findings can be challenged in federal court. In 1992, one such challenge was the case of Portland Audubon Society v. Endangered Species Committee heard in the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals.^[47]

 

^{xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx}

 

Who speaks for Sasquatch? Who lobbies Congress to protect their lands? Who fights timber sales for them? Nobody.........because MYTHS don't have a voice. Neither do Pixies, Gnomes or Trolls.........but the Lynx does, the Grizzly bear does, the Wolf does, the Woodland Caribou does, the Bull Trout does........

 

Xion Comrade? The naive mindset is your own, not mine.

[Xion Comrade]

I honestly think that if someone shot a Bigfoot and didn't have an actual plan in place, the powers that be would make that body disappear. Now if you keep your mouth shut, make arrangements before hand, then make a formal press conference where all your finding can be seen. Then the worst that can happen from the government at point is they'll have to act shocked and surprised as well.

 

I also think that whomever is tapped by fate to be the person who shots a Bigfoot and gets it in for verification will be pretty much treated as a pariah by those currently within the Bigfoot community. So I can only hope this person has access to some really good attorneys and a deep pocket to draw from.

 

I imagine the person who finally bags one and successfully brings it to the public will be put in the list of top 20 most hated people in America as a kneejerk reaction from the public(Lets face it, kneejerk is the only reaction the general public has ever had), it's going to be a public relations nightmare, for certain every logger in the country is going to bemoan the day Bigfoot was "Discovered".

 

Even if you did manage to get any sort of a press conference(You NEED the biggest stations out there to even get a whisper in the publics ear, and that in and of itself is a task not for the weak of stomach). Before you get to the media you are going to need dozens of scientists to get their hands on the body AND still keep their mouths shut to confirm it was even real before the public is going to even hear a word of the news and not laugh a hernia into their gut, and that is going to take forever, how are you even going to get the scientists themselves to touch the subject after all of the hoaxes and especially that whole Erickson flub? It was academic suicide to touch this subject even before all of that!

[norseman]

Xion Comrade? Your joking right?!!!!!

 

 

Xion Comrade? Your joking right?!!!!!

 

 

[Xion Comrade]

Xion Comrade? Your joking right?!!!!!

 

 

 

Nothing has been directed at you or anyone in particular, every statement is general, should have worded it more specifically I suppose, my bad man! And yes, most of the people I know who are interested in the subject the one thing they want to do is shoot a bigfoot, and it is a purely egotistical reason behind it. Sort of like last time I was out I had a bear come into my camp while I was sleeping, first thing everyone asks me is "Why didn't you just shoot it? I woulda shot it..."...Every...Single...Person.

 

And NO, No joking, everything that hits the publics ears and eyes is BS man, go watch the news and documentaries that make it to TV, it's absolutely ridiculous. Ide swear it was deliberate but that would make me a kook right? So many sincere, knowledgeable and excellent 'Footers' out there and these kooks are the ones that get aired? Heck even if someone who halfway knows what they are doing get some airtime all the media does is make fun of them and toss ad hominem attacks their way.

[norseman]

Nothing has been directed at you or anyone in particular, every statement is general, should have worded it more specifically I suppose, my bad man! And yes, most of the people I know who are interested in the subject the one thing they want to do is shoot a bigfoot, and it is a purely egotistical reason behind it. Sort of like last time I was out I had a bear come into my camp while I was sleeping, first thing everyone asks me is "Why didn't you just shoot it? I woulda shot it..."...Every...Single...Person.

 

And NO, No joking, everything that hits the publics ears and eyes is BS man, go watch the news and documentaries that make it to TV, it's absolutely ridiculous. Ide swear it was deliberate but that would make me a kook right? So many sincere, knowledgeable and excellent 'Footers' out there and these kooks are the ones that get aired? Heck even if someone who halfway knows what they are doing get some airtime all the media does is make fun of them and toss ad hominem attacks their way.

 

I'm not personally offended at all so no worries there, but I couldn't disagree with you more about why they need to be discovered by science, as well as the particulars surrounding that event.

 

I hunt Bears in season. With that said, you don't go blasting every species that walks into a camp. Obviously a Bear could be a threat, but I'd only shoot one out of season if the situation was dire. I usually shoot in the air and scare them away.........and then advise my neighbor to secure his/her garbage better. But a completely different mindset between shooting a nuisance black bear and shooting a type specimen! Project Grendel is about proving the existence of Sasquatch to science by any means necessary, including harvesting a type specimen. But I'd be more happy finding a skull in the woods, that was recent and not fossilized. Then we would not have to kill one, but unlike you I think it's extremely important that this very special and possibly rare species is recognized and protected. And if that means killing one to protect the rest? I think that is a noble cause.

 

And my videos prove you wrong. Tom Biscardi with his ape suit in a freezer photos had a CNN press conference in 2 weeks from his announcement that he had a Sasquatch body. Todd Standing is selling seats at a local auditorium to view his Sasquatch movie and the press is all over it! Nobody seems to have a problem getting the presses attention concerning a body....

 

I would definitely take my type specimen to science first and then let them deal with the media how they wanted. I would donate it to science or let the government take possession of it. Although I would keep a body part for myself in a very safe undisclosed location to make sure there were no black ops conspiracies that made the body vanish. If the body was mine and I did make money off of it? I would use that money to start a conservation fund for the species or donate it to a like minded organization already established.

Edited April 17, 2014 by norseman

[Xion Comrade]

Good points! Made me think if people around here make a habit of blowing away black bear(I know several people who do so, and it isn't out of fear, just pure meanness), which isn't exactly the "terror of the woods" everyone just LOVES to think they are, then I wonder how many times a bigfoot has been shot on sight over the decades, something much more frightening/formidable and tbh quite creepy in appearance. People see a bear in the woods and immediately know what it is, people may see a bigfoot in the woods and have no unearthly clue what they are seeing, and just the fact that it is something unfamiliar and the fact that most people always assume the worst they can imagine(Especially in a situation like that) is going to create fear that will put that hypothetical bigfoot in a ton of danger.

 

 

Yeah and about those videos, isn't it strange that the news/media NEVER even seems to bother to look into the background of the people claiming the "big news"? 15 seconds on google with 'Biscardi' and you know the whole story. One look at that first Sylvanic bigfoot and you know it is some paper mache joke. I think that if you did get a full intact body and dotted all of your I's and crossed your T's so to speak, you would have MUCH more trouble getting the coverage that Rick Dyer's next comedically ridiculous freezysquatch will.

 

The last bigfoot sighting in this area to hit the TV news was a forest ranger of some sort parking his truck which had a dead deer in it on the side of the road to take a leak when a 6 foot tall solid black haired "bigfoot" with huge ears sticking up over its head drug the deer right outta the bed of his truck, to which he jumped in and got the heck outta dodge...he then admitted to being a bit...buzzed...at the time. Now anyone who knows anything about bigfoot or the woods knows that was a freaking bear, and that man should never be allowed to work in that business again. There have been plenty of excellent sightings from honest people around here and they choose some drunk park official, I mean come on....

Edited April 17, 2014 by Xion Comrade