The Kill Club

[norseman]

See now, that is a plan. As much as I'd like to see otherwise, I also reluctantly admit it will likely take a body for proof. I shudder at the thought of hands and feet and head, but I do see your point... those are packable and exactly what scientists will want to see - how the feet and hands are shaped, and how the brain/vertibrae column/vocal cords/etc are placed. If it has to happen this way, then I am glad you have a reasonable and do-able plan.

However, it might be easier to track down where the Carter "Fox" bigfoot is laid to rest and dig him up! Easy money.

It is gory........butchering out an elk is gory enough, let alone a primate that looks alot like us. I get that. And as a avid hunter I promise everyone that I do NOT have a ego to stroke or some sort of strange need to have a "ape" head on my wall.

If it was perfectly legal to go hunt a gorilla in Africa for one dollar? I wouldn't go.

Thanks for the understanding and well wishes bud.

[Guest]

Leave a huge pile of fruits and wait on a treestand? I'm not a hunter but I am pro-kill for the sake of science.

[norseman]

Thanks norseman, I always enjoy reading your threads & posts, and certainly have respect for you and your efforts.

I would like to get yours and anyone else's opinion on the possible outcome : let's say you get the body, and it makes it 'main stream' (is not confiscated). Then what? Hello heavy-duty governmental controls & restrictions, and it will affect all of us in a negative way......IMO.

The day after, this Forum, and many other BF web sites would look pretty different, and die a slow death.

Also would like to ask you, and maybe it was stated earlier.......what are your reasons for wanting to kill one? I won't debate with you, just curious?

Thanks for the kind words! I'll address this even though this isn't the direction I want the thread to take.

I'm well versed in your position having debated it before many times on this forum.

Let's look at it from the perspective of the endangered species act shall we? I live in the Selkirk mountains, which are home to no less than 5 species listed as endangered.

1) Lynx

2) Grizzly

3) Woodland Caribou

4) Wolf

5) Wolverine

Is it all a bed of roses? No. But by the same token they haven't as yet erected a wall with barbed wire on top with "stay out" signs either. Some roads are gated, but allows non motorized use. We still elk hunt there, fish there, etc. In other words there is still plenty of public land use to be had.

So I'm not at all worried that by Sasquatch finally being recognized that somehow we would lose all of our land use rights on Federal ground.

And let's look at it from a 411 perspective, do you think it's right for unsuspecting people to camp in areas where a large potential predator exists? Without any warning? There are protocols for camping in bear country, there are protocols for camping in cougar country, the forest service or park service hands out little brochures explaining the hazards and precautions. Without any official recognition? None of that happens..........people go on believing Sasquatch is a fairy tale......at their own peril. That is not fair to people!

Knowing it's there and wanting to keep it a secret is dishonest and unethical in my book, I'm sorry.

You mentioned this forum dying........could you imagine if Bigfoot is announced real the INFLUX of people onto this forum looking for answers? I see the exact opposite happening with a discovery!

Lastly you ask why I want to kill one. And first of all I would like to say I hope I don't have to kill one. I hope that some how, some way DNA or one is found dead that convinces science. The problem with that is that I've been waiting forty two years for that day when science recognizes it as a species. As we all know that day has never come. So if it's going to happen? We who know this animal is real, owe it to mankind, science and squatch kind to prove it's existence.

And unlike you, I see nothing good for the species by being unrecognized. We humans can just continue to whack at it's habitat until there is nothing left. They evidently like forested wet places, look at Seattle! Over half a million humans came in and plunked down! Is that fair to Squatch and his family? Could we have did a little pre planning there that could have possibly took into consideration the needs of other species besides just man? Of course we could have.

But humans do not take into consideration the needs of a myth.

Leave a huge pile of fruits and wait on a treestand? I'm not a hunter but I am pro-kill for the sake of science.

Well? Look at the skookum cast? If somebody had watched that from a tree stand at 100 yards? We might not now be having a debate over if the cast represents an unknown primate or a elk.

[gigantor]

Then what? Hello heavy-duty governmental controls & restrictions, and it will affect all of us in a negative way......IMO.

So Bigtex, I guess you would rather see the mystery continue forever. You don't want BF to be discovered. I don't understand that, it makes no sense unless you want to play researcher forever.

The government will impose controls, but no different than the ones we have now. Most of the territory these animals live in, if they exist, are already protected in national parks and the like. They seem to be ok now, without any intervention.

The day after, this Forum, and many other BF web sites would look pretty different, and die a slow death.

I disagree. If BF is ever proven to be an extant animal, this forum and many others will explode with people wanting to learn more about it. You and I and every member knows all about it, but that is only about 5000 people, there is 200 million who will want more info once it's "discovered".

[Guest]

Discovery of Bf would be very different from discovery of any other spiecies....they are either human, half human, or look enough like it for them treated as indigenous people or to be put into a category of their own.

Whether their discovery will be good or bad for them or humans cannot easily be predicted. You can only predict surprises will be had. This is exactly the sort of event that will bring wildly weird and unforseene consequences.

The idea of trying to kill one is chuckyjamfull of danger. From them getting you first or getting you back.

[Guest peter]

If I were doing this I would go as a two man team and since you're not sport hunting and not bound by game laws you have more freedom.Things like night hunting and baiting(Zagnuts ) would be something I'd be set up for,

If you're serious about this quest then thinking outside the box and taking risks may be what you need to do.

[BobbyO]

And unlike you, I see nothing good for the species by being unrecognized. We humans can just continue to whack at it's habitat until there is nothing left. They evidently like forested wet places, look at Seattle! Over half a million humans came in and plunked down! Is that fair to Squatch and his family? Could we have did a little pre planning there that could have possibly took into consideration the needs of other species besides just man? Of course we could have.

But humans do not take into consideration the needs of a myth.

Nice thought but let's be real, Humans only barely took into consideration other Humans where North America and " pre planning " and the needs of certain people in the first place were concerned, so a myth has no chance like you say.

I personally think they're ok as it is, i don't have a great deal of faith in how great human beings actually are no matter how great we think we actually are.

The truth is somewhat different in my opinion, in general.

So Bigtex, I guess you would rather see the mystery continue forever. You don't want BF to be discovered. I don't understand that, it makes no sense unless you want to play researcher forever.

I think there's a really simple thing that is being overlooked here..

He's a witness, he's seen them and although i can't speak for Bigtex, i highly suspect that as a " knower ", his thoughts on Sasquatch, like mine, would differ greatly to people that don't actually know if they're out there or not, and are dying to know at any cost, in order to put their own minds at rest.

PS : Great thread and interesting discussion as per normal Norse..

[norseman]

Nice thought but let's be real, Humans only barely took into consideration other Humans where North America and " pre planning " and the needs of certain people in the first place were concerned, so a myth has no chance like you say.

I'm being real........how many Seattle's haven't been built yet? I'm talking about this exact moment in time moving forward. Large civil projects have environmental impact studies........and those studies look at the impact of the project on various habitats of the animals in the area. Unfortunately they don't look at gnomes or forest fairy habitats........only REAL animals.

I personally think they're ok as it is, i don't have a great deal of faith in how great human beings actually are no matter how great we think we actually are.

The truth is somewhat different in my opinion, in general.

Ok............so show me where the endangered species act has been a total failure. In other words because a species was placed on the list it became a determent to that species.

So you are in favor of lying to the general public that nothing is out there?

I'm not, I truly find this stance morally repugnant. Not only is it NOT helpful for a species to remain hidden? But it's not fair to millions of unsuspecting people who enjoy the outdoors every year. It's a two way street.

[Guest poignant]

Fugitive hunting - target has superior speed, strength, deadly melee power, and know the lay of the land better than you do.

Agree with peter...you need to get a team going.

And stay close to your exit vehicle.

[BobbyO]

I'm being real........how many Seattle's haven't been built yet? I'm talking about this exact moment in time moving forward. Large civil projects have environmental impact studies........and those studies look at the impact of the project on various habitats of the animals in the area. Unfortunately they don't look at gnomes or forest fairy habitats........only REAL animals.

There's no way to give an accurate answer.

If i knew the answer to things like that, i'd be more interested in trying to find 6 numbers to your WA State Lottery.

It's not as if BF inhabits areas on its own so if the potential projects are looking at real animals and the habitats they have and they do their due diligence with the relevant authorities that are able to tell them home range of large predators, then i don't see a huge difference that would be there with the discovery of Sasquatch to be honest.

So you are in favor of lying to the general public that nothing is out there?

I'm not, I truly find this stance morally repugnant. Not only is it NOT helpful for a species to remain hidden? But it's not fair to millions of unsuspecting people who enjoy the outdoors every year. It's a two way street.

There are no lies.

Sasquatch doesn't exist to the vast, vast majority nor to science and there's only tiny, tiny % of people that know otherwise.

Do i think telling the public that there is another potential predator out there with higher intelligence than the current ones is a good thing for Sasquatches ?

No way in the world and i'll be honest, i care more about this species than the thoughts, feelings and highly likely over reaction of the majority of human beings towards them.

There is not a Sasquatch peeking around every tree, there is no evidence of them being a danger to human beings, but there is a very human way of doing things in the USA no matter what and i don't particularly think that would be good for the species.

However on the positive side i do think that they would out smart 99.999% of people in their own environment so i'm not that worried to be honest.

Ok............so show me where the endangered species act has been a total failure. In other words because a species was placed on the list it became a determent to that species.

Norse, i lived in SE Asia for 9 years..

Bear that in mind when talking about failure where the endangered species act is concerned.

I used to see the failure of it in market's, daily.

[Bigtex]

If you or anyone bags a Bigfoot, it will prove many things, and one would certainly be these creatures are pretty darn smart to be that elusive, which would suggest higher intelligence. That would also imply emotions, such as revenge. Just a thought guys......the hunter could surely become the hunted in this situation, or the next poor innocent sap that goes hiking through there might turn up missing - let's don't start a war with these guys.

Hunting them will only drive them further into darkness, limiting future possible meaningful encounters, and those that do occur likely to be more aggressive.

[norseman]

There's no way to give an accurate answer.

If i knew the answer to things like that, i'd be more interested in trying to find 6 numbers to your WA State Lottery.

It's not as if BF inhabits areas on its own so if the potential projects are looking at real animals and the habitats they have and they do their due diligence with the relevant authorities that are able to tell them home range of large predators, then i don't see a huge difference that would be there with the discovery of Sasquatch to be honest.

So what your saying is that if the needs of say a Grizzly bear are addressed in the project's impact study, then the unknown Sasquatch's needs can dove tail into that which would benefit both species............cool.

What if the land in question has no other known large predators habitating it? Then I guess they lose.

There are no lies.

Sasquatch doesn't exist to the vast, vast majority nor to science and there's only tiny, tiny % of people that know otherwise.

Do i think telling the public that there is another potential predator out there with higher intelligence than the current ones is a good thing for Sasquatches ?

No way in the world and i'll be honest, i care more about this species than the thoughts, feelings and highly likely over reaction of the majority of human beings towards them.

There is not a Sasquatch peeking around every tree, there is no evidence of them being a danger to human beings, but there is a very human way of doing things in the USA no matter what and i don't particularly think that would be good for the species.

However on the positive side i do think that they would out smart 99.999% of people in their own environment so i'm not that worried to be honest.

Have you read or listened to any of the 411 material?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmaeiV6Fmks

I think there are plenty of lies to go around for everyone, and I'm not even remotely convinced that they are not a danger to humans.

With understanding comes awareness and protocol.

Norse, i lived in SE Asia for 9 years..

Bear that in mind when talking about failure where the endangered species act is concerned.

I used to see the failure of it in market's, daily.

That's cool you lived in SE Asia, but I had no idea that US Federal law had that much reach in the world............

When I'm talking about the Endangered species act (US law and jurisdictions) I'm talking about Wolves, Grizzly bears, etc. And not rare species in third world countries falling prey to the bush meat trade.

[norseman]

If you or anyone bags a Bigfoot, it will prove many things, and one would certainly be these creatures are pretty darn smart to be that elusive, which would suggest higher intelligence. That would also imply emotions, such as revenge. Just a thought guys......the hunter could surely become the hunted in this situation, or the next poor innocent sap that goes hiking through there might turn up missing - let's don't start a war with these guys.

Hunting them will only drive them further into darkness, limiting future possible meaningful encounters, and those that do occur likely to be more aggressive.

Again....have you read or listened to any of the 411 material? It would seem that it's already happening and has been for quite sometime. Even farther back if you take Indian folklore into account.

Look, large predators are freakin dangerous........I can attest to that and concur with you. If you strap your hunting boots onto your feet, you had better have your big boy panties on, it's no joke. It's not even a joke if your hunting something as mundane as deer or elk......because something else may want your harvested animal that has claws and teeth or in Squatch's case a big stick (**** those opposable thumbs!). Heck it's not even hunting boots...........it could be hiking boots and a berry basket. It could even be toddler booties and a picnic basket.

You go into the woods? Your on the menu, it really is that simple. Bears and Cougars do not care if your only picking berries........nor do Moose.

But each of these species are on the books and there are protocols in place when encountering them in the wild that give you the best chance for survival. So where is the official protocol for Sasquatch? Do people know these animals are present? Do they know how to safe guard themselves and their loved ones while on a camping trip?

As a father of four children if I was camping in a area that somebody knew (or the authorities) was a heavy Sasquatch use area........and nobody told me? And something happened to one of my children? Sasquatch would be the last thing that they would have to worry about. And there lies the moral repugnance of it all.

I live in the wilderness.........Rice Washington is a population of 30. Kettle Falls where I graduated is a population of 1500. The Colville National Forest dominates the region.

I want straight answers, I do not want to take Bobo's word for it. What is it? How many are there? What does it eat? Where does it sleep? These are all question's that only biology can answer. And even Bobby O admits that.

Ok............so I've humored the anti kill position, I've explained my position and why I feel the way I do, and I've hijacked my own thread. I have no personal ill feelings towards anyone, but the older I get the more anti anti kill I get.

[Guest crabshack]

You forgot a good one, BROWNING's BAR the LIGHTWEIGHT STALKER model with iron sights, you can get it in 300 wsm and 7mm wsm.

If you feel you may need more gun than that the BAR is also avalible in 338 Win. Mag.

Edited December 19, 2012 by crabshack

[norseman]

You forgot a good one, BROWNING's BAR the LIGHTWEIGHT STALKER model with iron sights, you can get it in 300 wsm and 7mm wsm.

If you feel you may need more gun than that the BAR is also avalible in 338 Win. Mag.

I have one, I inherited it from my grand father. It has profound family memories and feelings for me. With that said I wouldn't suggest it as a rifle for dangerous game.

I was in the Frank Church wilderness, Idaho in the mid 90's hunting elk. We had packed in about 20 miles with mules and horses and was camped in a placed called Club meadows. Anyhow, in a wilderness setting it's hard to keep anything clean even though I tried and after calling a 5x5 elk in to about 30 feet from us, I fired once and it jammed on me. After a night of listening to wolves howling which lead me to believe I wouldn't find much, I found that elk the next day. One quarter had bone soured on me I found out after getting it home and trying to eat it.

Boiled down to brass tacks? It's a semi auto, semi auto's jam if not kept clean. And compared to the AR platform the BAR is more difficult to break down and clean.

I'm also not impressed with the caliber of my grand fathers rifle, which is a 7mm magnum. But it's my grandfather's rifle and I cherish it for it's memories of him.