The Kill Club

[Guest Hndrx]

Tragically, the only way to absolutely prove that bigfoot exists is to bring in a body. No amount of any other evidence will work.

[Guest]

I recently read both copies of the 411 books, The Eastern book being the most informative. I now firmly believe Fish and Game, national park and FBI are aware of these animals. I believe the book shows factual evidence that many abductions are cause by a bigfoot and not a bear or wolf or person.

My sighting of two of these creatures happened in Oklahoma, just 100 yards into a park that borders the town of Sulphur. This park system has no bears as was told to me by a park ranger. I was told a man was found dead sitting at a lonely isolated picnic table several years ago..apparantly died of a head wound from a single rock thrown, Now sure it could be a person that threw the rock that killed this man....but I saw two bigfoot at close range in this park, and have talked to other witnesses. I think they are dangerous in certain situations... How can we be sure our actions don't make them mad enough to abduct or kill?

I think with all the years of debate from the supposed DNA studies have done nothing so far but fill up threads. If Norseman brings in a body, then government will be forced to put some money into studying them. Government money is what will get it done...but not until a body is brought forward. I am not trying to kill one myself, just smart enough to know it needs to be done. Good luck Norseman

Edited December 24, 2012 by driveroperator

[norseman]

I like my traditional lever actions barebones

My 94 has ghost rings sites, which for me work better then buckhorn sites for target acquisition

I have a 336 in 30/30 and a marlin 44 mag, I tried low power scopes on both of them, but soon took them off

If I need a small quick handling rifle with a scope then I use my remmington model 600 mohawk in 308 win although my winchester model 88 in 308 win was my favorite deer rifle for years.

My brother has a win model 88 carbine which he has had re-chambered to 338 federal and 18 1/2 inch barrel, it is a real sweet handling bush rifle

The 338 federal is just a blown out .308 case correct? I inherited my fathers 88 when he passed on and I have pictures of him hunting with it up at black pine lake outside of Twisp, Wa. around 1958. I really cherish it as a family heirloom.

If I'm going after a squatch hardcore, i really need my guide gun to have night time capabilities. Hence the rail...... I think an EO tech sight and some sort of tac light would fill the bill perfectly.

I recently read both copies of the 411 books, The Eastern book being the most informative. I now firmly believe Fish and Game, national park and FBI are aware of these animals. I believe the book shows factual evidence that many abductions are cause by a bigfoot and not a bear or wolf or person.

My sighting of two of these creatures happened in Oklahoma, just 100 yards into a park that borders the town of Sulphur. This park system has no bears as was told to me by a park ranger. I was told a man was found dead sitting at a lonely isolated picnic table several years ago..apparantly died of a head wound from a single rock thrown, Now sure it could be a person that threw the rock that killed this man....but I saw two bigfoot at close range in this park, and have talked to other witnesses. I think they are dangerous in certain situations... How can we be sure our actions don't make them mad enough to abduct or kill?

I think with all the years of debate from the supposed DNA studies have done nothing so far but fill up threads. If Norseman brings in a body, then government will be forced to put some money into studying them. Government money is what will get it done...but not until a body is brought forward. I am not trying to kill one myself, just smart enough to know it needs to be done. Good luck Norseman

I agree 200 percent. Green Berets don't search for missing children, so the circumstances involving the event must have been extraordinary.

But what is more important to me is to change people's minds within the community. The chances that I can accomplish this alone are very slim. But if we can get enough people to change their mind and throw a appropriate rifle into their tool bag while out "squatching"? There are enough chance encounters out there like yours that at some point and at some time the right individual is going to connect with the right situation.

At least that is my hope.

But in this particular thread that I started I really want to discuss with like minded people the all important details on how to accomplish this. Or in other words tip the odds in our favor.

[norseman]

Found a picatinny light rail for the guide gun!

[MagniAesir]

Yes the 338 federal is just a blown out 308 case, my brother collect model 88's and has a rifle and carbine in every factory offering

The federal was just a project he did with one that was in bad shape

Your idea of a rail and light does make sense though

This hunting season I was up in Northern British Columbia

I was hunting moose and elk while my brother had a grizzly tag

He got his grizzly early on so we were concentrating on moose and elk

I got a nice bull elk about 1/2 hour 45 minutes before dark

It was well after dark by the time we had it quartered, and as we were loading the quarters onto a quad we heard something large walking towards us

In all likely hood it was another elk coming down the trail, but we couldn't tell, two of us threw up our rifles while one guy was scanning the woods with his flashlight

The hour or so hike back to camp in pitch dark was exciting (1 quad loaded with four elk quarters and two of us walking) a good light mounted on our rifles probably would have worked better then our headlamps

A couple years ago two hunters shot an elk in the same area, left their guns by there quads and walked down to dress the animal

The three grizzlies were still guarding their remains when the CO's found them

No your light idea makes sense to me

[Guest crabshack]

Found a picatinny light rail for the guide gun!

Now that's cool.

Edited December 24, 2012 by crabshack

[Guest Cervelo]

Santa are you out there?

[norseman]

MMMMMHHHHMMMM! ^^^^^^^^^^^

Yes the 338 federal is just a blown out 308 case, my brother collect model 88's and has a rifle and carbine in every factory offering

The federal was just a project he did with one that was in bad shape

Your idea of a rail and light does make sense though

This hunting season I was up in Northern British Columbia

I was hunting moose and elk while my brother had a grizzly tag

He got his grizzly early on so we were concentrating on moose and elk

I got a nice bull elk about 1/2 hour 45 minutes before dark

It was well after dark by the time we had it quartered, and as we were loading the quarters onto a quad we heard something large walking towards us

In all likely hood it was another elk coming down the trail, but we couldn't tell, two of us threw up our rifles while one guy was scanning the woods with his flashlight

The hour or so hike back to camp in pitch dark was exciting (1 quad loaded with four elk quarters and two of us walking) a good light mounted on our rifles probably would have worked better then our headlamps

A couple years ago two hunters shot an elk in the same area, left their guns by there quads and walked down to dress the animal

The three grizzlies were still guarding their remains when the CO's found them

No your light idea makes sense to me

Thanks!

And by the way I'm so envious of you! BC is the greatest place to live on the planet! I have family on my father's side living in Invermere.

Edited December 25, 2012 by norseman

[norseman]

Found a picatinny light rail for the guide gun!

Just ordered it and a brass mag follower (since the gun will be apart).

[the parkie]

Norseman

I'm always reading of sasquatches supposedly right outside camper's tents - 'they find you, you don't find them' etc. Is it too simplistic to lie in wait in this way, with a few of you in tents strategically placed for a point-blank shot? I can't recall if you have stated what sort of time frame you would dedicate to this trip and therefore if this reactive approach would be time-feasible. If not, then please forgive my ignorance as I know absolutely nothing about hunting.

Also, what's your thoughts on the reports of sasquatches apparently being shot at with the bullets seemingly having no effect whatsoever? I am ignorant about gun specifics and capabilities too, but does this sound reasonable with inadequate firepower? Would you also be comfortable with shooting something that looked overwhelmingly human to you? I have often read this put forward as a reason why those that found themselves with a shooting opportunity did not pull the trigger.

Just curious on your thoughts...

[Guest]

Out of all the collecting expeditions in the time of the shooting naturalists, has any of their collecting helped or hindered a species? I mean both Wallace and Darwin actively killed and collected prime and variant species to study and document later in a lab. Has any of those species become extinct? Another question might be what listing of animals is there of becoming extinct from hunting? Bison came close I think, but are not extinct. Wooley Mamoth maybe, but we really don't have proof.

I think there are more influential agents at work than hunting, or scientific collection that enable extinction. Like loss of habitat, environmental changes, adopted survival behaviors, loss of food resources, etc., and if these cause more damage to a species than hunting and collecting then the main issue for those who disagree in killing may be more about the intelligence of an organisim or that they are benign enough and can handle themselves without human intervention. To think that human intervention or influence is not powerful enough to harm something intelligent or powerfully skilled in surviving is hiding from the issue. Logging and construction may be doing more damage to low population/density species than led to believe.

I searched and searched to see if NASA knowingly incorporated a lethal weapon on any of their Mars rovers. Nada. Pictures and circumstantial scientific evidence seems to be all they need to answer the question of life on another planet. Unfortunately most Bigfoot researchers cannot afford what NASA has brought to bear on the issue.

Just some thoughts. I don't really lean one way or the other till I know more about the creature.

[Guest Cervelo]

the parkie,

It would be tough and I can't tell you 100% that I could do it.

[Guest]

Another question might be what listing of animals is there of becoming extinct from hunting? Bison came close I think, but are not extinct. Wooley Mamoth maybe, but we really don't have proof.

The passenger pigeon and Carolina parakeet were exterminated by market hunters (with other factors contributing).

http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/animals/photos/13-animals-hunted-to-extinction/hunted-to-death

Edited December 28, 2012 by Pteronarcyd

[bigbear]

Lots of interesting thoughts.

As i stated before, i am not exactly pro kill, all though i do think lots of info could be had from a body and unfortunately that is probably the only sure fire way to prove one exists.

I have put some thought into "hunting" for squatch. I would do my shooting with a camera but would have protection with me just incase.

I do think a small team would be best, 6 people, 3 groups of 2, but i also think the more people out there, the more likely you are to alert the prey to your presence.

I have been planning to go out on my own for a while and be as cautious about everything as possible as it could not hurt especially when it comes to scent.

I figure my best chance at seeing a BF up close would involve something like this

Choose area of interest, pin down dates of hunt.

Do a partial entry of area (if you will enter 2 miles into area to get to hunting location, do a partial entry of 1/2 mile or proportional distance) 4 weeks before hunt date, take in as much of your gear you plan to take with you on the hunt as possible that you can leave. In a secure breathable container, secure and leave your cloths, hardware anything you can to acclimate to the area. Then leave area same route you came.

Gear i would take, Full camo, head to toe based on environment i would be in. A light portable tree stand type device, dressed in natural camo. I am thinking a simple cloth mesh hammock. Something light, compact i could connect one end to a branch and other end to other brand and lounge in a well covered tree, perhaps a conifer (could tap tree to leak pine sap to help mask odor further) It is very important to get comfortable to limit fidgeting an your desire to move as i want to be able to remain their for quite some time.

Only take naturally occurring food for your own consumption, again, cut down on odor and anything that would stand out as strange to an intelligent creature that calls the place home.

Create a small viewing blind for any electronics that have lights to allow you to operate camera's, NV, thermal ect... with out giving away your position at night with a bright glaring LCD display or light.

your equipment, which ever you prefer, a nice full tang fix blade knife, hatchet, some rope....whatever

Other things you could take, decoy, calls ect... up to you.

Other prep, No lie, flush your system before you go out, ex-lax whatever. Get it out before you get in the woods. After that you should be good to go for few days especially with limited food intake and lack of movement on your part.

As far as urine is concerned, i have thought of a few ideas to help keep it out of the woods but nothing that great yet, still need to brain storm and i am not going to use a catheter, hell with that!!

Other thing i have thought about is the firearm, they smell, simply put, be it the burnt gunpowder smell, the oil or solvents used to clean/lubricate, perhaps i am being overly cautious about things but, to catch the most elusive creature you must become even more elusive....no? But anyway still toying with idea's there.

So figure with that setup, spend some days out in the woods, limit movement, when you get desperate try some other tactics, calls, bait, ect...

You would decent your initial cloths and have washed them with unscented or no detergent at all to help eliminate scents

So finally hunt day!! walk into where you put all your gear, strip and change cloths, grab all your gear and walk to hunting spot set up and get your hunt on.

Other things to consider, if you kill a BF, treat it as BSL4 (Bio Saftey Level 4) Who knows what kind of zoonotic diseases it could have!! You might have killed the first BF but now you have incurable terminal illness.....GREAT!!

As far as firearm to hunt BF with. I am kind of with Norseman on this one, something large bore with some energy and knockdown power. Like he said, semi's can jam but the ability to just pull a trigger and fire away and not worry about user malfunction during a heart stopping moment might be worth the risk. .458 socom like he had mentioned might be decent. I have always been interested in the .50 beowulf which is similar in ballistics.

On a M4 platform you could create a light, short compact gun that would be great to carry around with some serious knockdown power

Edited December 28, 2012 by bigbear

[norseman]

Norseman

I'm always reading of sasquatches supposedly right outside camper's tents - 'they find you, you don't find them' etc. Is it too simplistic to lie in wait in this way, with a few of you in tents strategically placed for a point-blank shot? I can't recall if you have stated what sort of time frame you would dedicate to this trip and therefore if this reactive approach would be time-feasible. If not, then please forgive my ignorance as I know absolutely nothing about hunting.

I think using campers as bait is a risky affair. And I'm not sure if one would come in to look around uninhabited tents. But it's a possibility, there are many ways to lure something in based on it's needs. Sex, competition and food I think come in at the top of known hunting practices. I would assume the standard Bigfooter mode of operation through whoops and wood knocks would fall into a "competition" category. Saying "Hey! I'm new here, come check me out!" This is purely assumption on my part. The sex category would be more of a scent lure, using ape pheromones or the like. And I think food could be as simple as fruit laid out like in the case of the skookum cast to something much more proactive like a predator call setup using something like a rabbit call with a moving rabbit decoy. That you can buy at Cabelas or sporting goods stores.

Also, what's your thoughts on the reports of sasquatches apparently being shot at with the bullets seemingly having no effect whatsoever? I am ignorant about gun specifics and capabilities too, but does this sound reasonable with inadequate firepower? Would you also be comfortable with shooting something that looked overwhelmingly human to you? I have often read this put forward as a reason why those that found themselves with a shooting opportunity did not pull the trigger.

Just curious on your thoughts...

Yes, it's reasonable to assume they did not use a caliber of gun that is not adequate. It's also reasonable for people to be scared and miss cleanly or simply jack all of their rounds onto the ground without firing a shot. When hunting dangerous game it's not of question of putting a good hit on a animal, but having enough fire power to completely STOP a full charge. What I mean by that is that the caliber used is going to deliver enough kinetic energy that it's going to set the animal right on the ground in a violent fashion as opposed to the military use of the term of "he who fills the air with the most lead wins". The military isn't trying to kill the enemy with covering fire, the hope is to pin the enemy down so that they can be maneuvered against and killed. A military term is the "four F's" or Find, Fix, Flank and Finish.

Dangerous animals don't shoot back.....they close your safety gap and finish you with fangs and claws. You don't need to fill the air with lead, you just need one good placed shot with a big bore rifle that's going to penetrate and break bone. In most cases with guided hunts the hunter shoots something he is comfortable shooting that can kill at a distance and with time. The guide on the other hand packs something that stops charges and finishes the animal at close range IF the hunter makes a bad shot and the animal goes into cover.

If you went to Africa on safari for dangerous game, you would take with you probably a .458 winchester bolt action with a low power scope. The guide on the other hand is probably packing a side by side Holland and Holland chambered in a .500 or .600 Nitro express. It looks like a side by side shotgun.

As far as willingness to take a Squatch? If Patty walked across my sight picture I'd pull the trigger without flinching. I have no desire to shoot an ape of anykind, I have no desire to prove my prowess as a hunter to anyone. But I do feel for the good of the species, the mystery needs to end and the species needs official recognition. The fastest path between A and B is a whole body or good part there of.

And if Sasquatch is proven to exist tommorow I would drop the whole thing. Unless of course I was protecting my family or property.

The passenger pigeon and Carolina parakeet were exterminated by market hunters (with other factors contributing).

http://www.mnn.com/e...hunted-to-death

Which is what prompted the Pittman Robertson act.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittman%E2%80%93Robertson_Federal_Aid_in_Wildlife_Restoration_Act

Out of all the collecting expeditions in the time of the shooting naturalists, has any of their collecting helped or hindered a species? I mean both Wallace and Darwin actively killed and collected prime and variant species to study and document later in a lab. Has any of those species become extinct? Another question might be what listing of animals is there of becoming extinct from hunting? Bison came close I think, but are not extinct. Wooley Mamoth maybe, but we really don't have proof.

I think there are more influential agents at work than hunting, or scientific collection that enable extinction. Like loss of habitat, environmental changes, adopted survival behaviors, loss of food resources, etc., and if these cause more damage to a species than hunting and collecting then the main issue for those who disagree in killing may be more about the intelligence of an organisim or that they are benign enough and can handle themselves without human intervention. To think that human intervention or influence is not powerful enough to harm something intelligent or powerfully skilled in surviving is hiding from the issue. Logging and construction may be doing more damage to low population/density species than led to believe.

I searched and searched to see if NASA knowingly incorporated a lethal weapon on any of their Mars rovers. Nada. Pictures and circumstantial scientific evidence seems to be all they need to answer the question of life on another planet. Unfortunately most Bigfoot researchers cannot afford what NASA has brought to bear on the issue.

Just some thoughts. I don't really lean one way or the other till I know more about the creature.

But hence the contradiction. How does one learn more about a creature that doesn't officially exist? And NASA is looking for life on other planets by way of microbes. I'm pretty sure if that rover rolled up on a Martian T Rex it would have a serious problem on it's hands.

But I agree with you, without official recognition we could very well be killing them quietly through loss of habitat and food resources. Many opponents ask me how I know that and my answer is always "I don't and neither do you, and without a real scientific inquiry we will never know". I would really like to take Bobo's word for it that they are thriving and healthy....but I'm not a wildlife biologist and neither is he.

Lots of interesting thoughts.

As i stated before, i am not exactly pro kill, all though i do think lots of info could be had from a body and unfortunately that is probably the only sure fire way to prove one exists.

I have put some thought into "hunting" for squatch. I would do my shooting with a camera but would have protection with me just incase.

I do think a small team would be best, 6 people, 3 groups of 2, but i also think the more people out there, the more likely you are to alert the prey to your presence.

I have been planning to go out on my own for a while and be as cautious about everything as possible as it could not hurt especially when it comes to scent.

I figure my best chance at seeing a BF up close would involve something like this

Choose area of interest, pin down dates of hunt.

Do a partial entry of area (if you will enter 2 miles into area to get to hunting location, do a partial entry of 1/2 mile or proportional distance) 4 weeks before hunt date, take in as much of your gear you plan to take with you on the hunt as possible that you can leave. In a secure breathable container, secure and leave your cloths, hardware anything you can to acclimate to the area. Then leave area same route you came.

Gear i would take, Full camo, head to toe based on environment i would be in. A light portable tree stand type device, dressed in natural camo. I am thinking a simple cloth mesh hammock. Something light, compact i could connect one end to a branch and other end to other brand and lounge in a well covered tree, perhaps a conifer (could tap tree to leak pine sap to help mask odor further) It is very important to get comfortable to limit fidgeting an your desire to move as i want to be able to remain their for quite some time.

Only take naturally occurring food for your own consumption, again, cut down on odor and anything that would stand out as strange to an intelligent creature that calls the place home.

Create a small viewing blind for any electronics that have lights to allow you to operate camera's, NV, thermal ect... with out giving away your position at night with a bright glaring LCD display or light.

your equipment, which ever you prefer, a nice full tang fix blade knife, hatchet, some rope....whatever

Other things you could take, decoy, calls ect... up to you.

Other prep, No lie, flush your system before you go out, ex-lax whatever. Get it out before you get in the woods. After that you should be good to go for few days especially with limited food intake and lack of movement on your part.

As far as urine is concerned, i have thought of a few ideas to help keep it out of the woods but nothing that great yet, still need to brain storm and i am not going to use a catheter, hell with that!!

Other thing i have thought about is the firearm, they smell, simply put, be it the burnt gunpowder smell, the oil or solvents used to clean/lubricate, perhaps i am being overly cautious about things but, to catch the most elusive creature you must become even more elusive....no? But anyway still toying with idea's there.

So figure with that setup, spend some days out in the woods, limit movement, when you get desperate try some other tactics, calls, bait, ect...

You would decent your initial cloths and have washed them with unscented or no detergent at all to help eliminate scents

So finally hunt day!! walk into where you put all your gear, strip and change cloths, grab all your gear and walk to hunting spot set up and get your hunt on.

Other things to consider, if you kill a BF, treat it as BSL4 (Bio Saftey Level 4) Who knows what kind of zoonotic diseases it could have!! You might have killed the first BF but now you have incurable terminal illness.....GREAT!!

As far as firearm to hunt BF with. I am kind of with Norseman on this one, something large bore with some energy and knockdown power. Like he said, semi's can jam but the ability to just pull a trigger and fire away and not worry about user malfunction during a heart stopping moment might be worth the risk. .458 socom like he had mentioned might be decent. I have always been interested in the .50 beowulf which is similar in ballistics.

On a M4 platform you could create a light, short compact gun that would be great to carry around with some serious knockdown power

Some good thoughts here.

My own personal opinion though is that as an ape, we would have to worry less about scent (unlike a bear) and worry alot more about trichromatic vision. It would be much more LIKE hunting a human than say a bear. And even with hunting a bear, I simply use some cover scent like Earth or Pine scent and simply observe my position in the wind.

I also think that most of what you would be doing out there is running and gunning doing recon work. If you dont find bear sign in the area you generally don't bother with a call set up.

Everyone has their own opinions on WHAT a Squatch is. My personal take is that they are a rare elusive species. Which means that hunting one is going to be akin to hunting a albino wolverine. It's a one in a million shot. Which means that a person or a team is going to have to cover hundreds and hundreds of miles of ground to cut any sign that could even point you in the right direction. Also being pro kill (I'm not going to try to lie to anyone) I don't think we could rely on too much help from others in the Bigfoot community. In other words, Matt Money maker isn't going to give you a call because he got a report of one raiding a chicken coop last night at the Smith house on Mill creek road.

I on the other hand would share any sign I found with them so they could document it. I'm not interested in documenting anything. I'm not going to pack dental resin with me, I'm going to make a note on a map and boogie. I want what's at the end of the trackway, the trackway itself isn't the prize.