Release Of Forensic Dna Results For Sierra Kills Sample

[Guest BartloJays]

Sorry guys, didn't expect to work today and I've been real busy. Will try to chime in when I can but please be patient as I also have two little ones and a wife with a bad head cold.

Let me start by saying that I think the odds of finding a piece of black bear within 70 yds (downhill) of where the purported shooting took place 5 weeks later even with a bloodhound informally trained to smell for bear (if story true, would not have found tissue without help of dog), is still a huge, huge stretch. I would not argue against that as I’m no hypocrite and I lecture all the time about the black bear population in CA and how I’ve never found remains in the thousands of acres I’ve hiked day and night.

However, there’s alot more remarkable coincidences in his favor that most people aren’t even aware of yet and that should be considered before running to conclusions here. In addition, we may have evidence that proves both guys were back at the site (many said they never made that trip) when they said they were and recovered tissue. If we do, we'll likely share that soon. That needs to be verified however.

For anyone questioning my relationship with Justin that developed over the process of the last 1 ½ years thanks to his cooperation, our mutual interests, life parallels (young families, Justin’s brother is deaf, my two children are genetically deaf and implanted) etc… and which I’m not ashamed of by any means….. please go read Tyler’s blog piece on why he believes Justin (I concur 100%) and remember that this is not shocking news by any means to me and Tyler because I gave this sample less than a 20% chance in the first place (due to circumstances and recognition state-timing) of being what they thought it was. The times that changed were during processing when we could get periodic updates you'll see throuh the emails that ave us some hope.

Please don’t take my word for it on my pessimism of the tissue “today†after testing..... go through numerous interviews and comments I’ve made going back over a year where I stated clearly and cautioned you “yesterday.â€

Now consider from MY perspective that I’ve personally eavesdropped on both witnesses intimately discussing the events of that day previously without their knowledge (when they physically brought me boots and flesh), I interviewed Jack off the cuff, unexpectedly, for three hrs with no time to prepare or rehearse, Justin passed a polygraph I know “he†believes he couldn’t lie and beat and he did it 100%, I got thermal footage 23 months later (will be out soon) within hundreds of yards from where he claimed to shoot them and that includes 6 witnesses and tall those who worked on re-creations independently who know those bipeds in footage are not humans coming out of the woodwork at 1:30 AM and moving through treeline with no light source, (analysis will be on target), precipitating that event was activity two weeks prior (no one thought the site was active) where 5 witnesses were present and back him all the way based on them being terrorized around the tree-line (same spot I caught and filmed them two weeks later). In addition, Justin did everything he could to protect what he believed was a viable tissue sample including package it into smaller pieces and hide pieces in case of emergency (unlike what “somebody†else wanted him to do), Justin could’ve hid behind Ketchum’s claimed results on the Sierra’s tissue and kept quiet and not do anything…instead he did and pushed for independent testing (more information will be shared on this soon). I can go on all day long… including all the people in his life I’ve met and talked to who are convinced of this event happening. The area where Justin lives in East Sacramento is like a second home to me as my aunt (dad’s sister) and her 6 children (all older and married) live throughout the East Sac valley not to mention countless friends of mine reside there, so I’m up often and have been my whole life.

Point is I don’t have to justify why I think he’s likely being truthful and has been, I am because I know there’s a lot of misperceptions on who said or did what and information most people haven’t had an opportunity to analyze because they haven’t understandably been privy to it.

Bottom line as I’ve said from day one to those who would listen, doesn’t matter what “I†or anyone else “thinks,†what matters is, does the evidence corroborate the claimed event and if it doesn’t, the incident will be forever anecdotal….period. So far it appears it hasn’t with the “circumstantial†evidence, now we’ll go after the “non-circumstantial†(boots) and go from there.

Tyler and I put a lot of time and effort into this (especially Tyler) and of course we hoped the tissue would turn out differently, but we can only go with the results we have from both labs. Maybe Melba knows something we don’t and she’s going to come in and trump these labs based on the supposed extensive testing she did. I assure you we’d put personal feelings aside and be on cloud nine…especially Justin. Not holding my breath and everything will make sense from our perspective here really soon that really made independent testing critical from our standpoint. She alone is responsible for that mistrust that was created. Regardless of what you think about Justin, we may not have these results if it weren’t for him coming to us with the information he did after an exchange with Ketchum. If Justin was just some hoaxer, he would’ve been better off shutting his mouth and riding it out with Ketchum, not unilaterally requesting testing elsewhere where he would surely be risking much if he was wrong on his suspicion about the origin of the tissue (people falsely perceive this as “contradictory evidenceâ€). That should’ve been a clue to many of you guys that something was really odd.

[Guest]

The pieces of the story I've read never made any sense to me anyway. I know many ethical hunters, and I've known the type of guys who will shoot anything regardless of ethics or laws because they like shooting and killing things. People are one way or the other, not both. He shoots the adult, then starts picking off the kiddies, but then gets a rush of fear or compassion and bails on the bodies, for weeks, then returns to get a sample? Who would shoot multiple BF, and then leave them? Why wait several weeks to decide to attempt recovery?

I watched the video of the supposedly legit polygraph exam as well. I have had the opportunity to observe a professional polygraph technician presenting results. If the industry standard procedures are comparable to what I witnessed, they are exceedingly careful about the verbiage they use, and don't generally elaborate with personal opinions and commentary like "I've seen some liars in my day, and I believed him."

I don't think any of this story is very believable. I apologize if this offends anyone, but my BS meter has been pegged on this one for a while.

Edited December 26, 2012 by Irish73

[Guest Thepattywagon]

So why did Justin knowing give you a piece of bear to test?

[Drew]

Re: The part where they went back out in the woods and just happened to find a piece of bear flesh.

Isn't this a guy who claimed to have killed over 100 bears or something like that?

Would it be a stretch to assume that he would have some portion of a bear available to him? either from a freezer, or from a fresh kill of his or his friends?

Doesn't that present a far more likely origin of the bear flesh?

[Guest slimwitless]

So the hair on the black bear sample Justin found matched the color of the creature he claimed he shot? What an interesting coincidence. After all, what are the odds of finding a piece of "pale 'yote' black bear (rare) at the same location? And what happened to the rest of the bear? Do they bury their dead as well? It seemed implausible to many when there were no bones or other remains of the presumed sasquatch.

Sally Ramey has already stated the shooting sample is in the study. Is it included as a "negative"? I doubt it.

I will say this doesn't exactly match what I've been told about the ongoing "independent" testing by someone who definitely should know what's going on. As such, I have to conclude the whole shooting story is either fabricated *and* Ketchum is simultaneously hoaxing or something else is going on.

Anyone caring to explain knows where to find me.

[WV FOOTER]

It wasn't a Bigfoot that got shot. My worst fears have come true, now all can believe. It was a real, genuine ManBearPig that was shot.

[Guest thermalman]

Ketchum has everything on the line. Why would she concoct or falsify results? She has stated, the science will prove her claims.

[Guest crabshack]

Or maybe a female and a young bigfoot was really shot, then a bear or two found the bodys and began feeding, along comes mr bigfoot and boy he is pissed.

One ripped to shreds bear is found.

[Guest slimwitless]

I guess the blood on the boots really is as important as some of us have been saying.

It's ironic that Ketchum participated in building a case against a murderer based on a tiny droplet of blood found on a shoe.

Edit to add: I'm referring to the homicide case in Texas she discussed in her latest interview.

Edited December 26, 2012 by slimwitless

[Guest Tyler H]

GrayJay:

Sorry - having trouble understanding what that has to do with any of this?

[Guest reelback]

What I keep reading here is contradiction after contradiction. When a contradiction appears, check your premises.

Premises: The BFs were killed as described, just happened to be bear flesh around. Ketchum in fact claimed the samples were + for BF. Ketchum tests are in fact + for BF. Different samples were given to different people. Its a hoax.

Looking at what is most likely:

The chances a real piece of bear flesh was found onsite are minimal to me unless it was planted. If it was planted, it was not by the shooter since he'd look foolish having it tested this way. Unlikely he'd expose himself this way. Or he shot a bear. Most likely he shot a bear.

Ketchum is either lying, or was misunderstood, or the shooter acquired a sample to provide her via a 3rd party. With sudden exposure to many BF resources, this is unlikely but possible. Most likely she is lying or misunderstood.

The chances there is a real BF sample at all from this event are very small. The story doesn't add up for me. How can someone kill a momumental discovery like this and just leave, not even soak some blood on a tissue, take some hair, saliva, nothing. Nothing at all. Its just too unlikely an outcome to believe. Most likely is that this is a hoax.

No dispersions or accusations here, this is just my take on what is most likely.

Or maybe a female and a young bigfoot was really shot, then a bear or two found the bodys and began feeding, along comes mr bigfoot and boy he is pissed.

One ripped to shreds bear is found.

Hmm. Really? And the BF forensically cleans the area of all traces?

Edited December 26, 2012 by reelback

[Guest BartloJays]

Slim-

FYI- Justin always said the bears in this area he'd seen or hunted previously were the same "pale" color as the adult subject he shot that day (though adamant it was no bear). He was correct as I've seen two bears in the area, one the same color and a chocolate brown one. On the night I got the thermal footage (Aug 23rd) Todd and Ro drove up to meet us from LA in the afternoon and as they rounded the bend they saw a blondish black bear and remarked on the color as soon as they pulled up to tell us about it without putting two and two together. I think the sun-streak color in regards to the local bears may have to do with either genetics and or sun exposure with medium (at best) tree density in much of the lower montaine Sierras terrain at that elevation. Just something to consider.

[Sunflower]

So...where's the paperwork for getting this sample both out of California, and the cross-border documentation into Canada?

Surely it can be produced?

Why haven't we heard from more than just one lab??? Why didn't the "steak"??? **** I hate that reference....get divided up so that several labs could test and report?

And yes, Grayjay, where IS the documentation, I'd like to know as well.

[Guest]

The whole Smeja thing just is questionable. I am not going to say what I think entirely.... let's just say "deceptions" come to mind. Just who is telling them is the question to which there are no good answers.... the whole thing stinks to high heaven.

Thanks to Mr. Huggins for posting the findings... the only truth so far to the situation apparently.

[Guest reelback]

The whole Smeja thing just is questionable. I am not going to say what I think entirely.... let's just say "deceptions" come to mind. Just who is telling them is the question to which there are no good answers.... the whole thing stinks to high heaven.

Thanks to Mr. Huggins for posting the findings... the only truth so far to the situation apparently.

Good point. Bear flesh is the only fact that has been established so far.

Edited December 26, 2012 by reelback