N A W A C - Field Study Discussion

[Cotter]

 

 

So I can assume you have no relative experience in the wilderness or nature comparable to that necessary to critique our findings and experiences? From experience, that is. As opposed to what you think *should* be.

 

 

Why would you assume that?

 

I have plenty of outdoor experience, much of it spent tracking animals and/or shooting them with a traditional bow, in Michigan's Upper Peninsula.  And now, in my old age hiking and photographing wildlife.

 

 

Allegedly.

 

You see, I was abandoned at 8 months old by my parents, I lived and grew up in the wild in the same valleys now being referred to as Area X.  I was raised by a group of wild, undiscovered apes.  It wasn't until 5 years ago when a group of folks came nosing around that I was found, took to civilization, and reassimilated into the 'normal' human culture.  Bipto's crew was disappointed that I wasn't the undiscovered primate they were looking for, I was slower than the rest of my family, and this was before Bipto's crew was bent on collecting a specimen, so they were able to chase me down with a huge butterfly net.

 

So I feel I am an expert on the area as I have lived in it for 30+ years and have first hand knowledge of the apes that live there.

 

Bipto was protecting my identity out of respect.

Edit - I would like to say that my post above was to illustrate just how easy it is to make claims about experience and expertise on the internet.

 

Bipto's crew is working hard and spending money to back up their claim(s).  Other folks make claims, with either nothing to back them up, or with listed statistics while not sharing, or simply ignoring pertinent caveats to these facts.

 

(selective logging vs. clear cutting)

 

(all animals eradicated)

 

(day hikers walking through area X)

 

so on so forth.

 

Oh, and just to be clear, I was not raised in the wild by undiscovered apes.

[Guest]

When Bipto says "We had a confirmed sighting through thermal"

 

Careful with your exuberant use of quotation marks. I never said that. I was asked if we had a "confirmed" sighting and I replied that we had a sighting via thermal. That was the last sighting we had. According to you, there is no way to confirm anything we do so having a debate about how we confirmed it is argumentative and pedantic. I also asked you, if it was not an ape that was seen, then what (based on my description of the event) could it have been? But you didn't answer. 

 

WRT to your outdoors experience, do you have any proof? Any images of you in a deer stand or in camo? Any deer head mounted to your wall? All we have is your claim of outdoors experience with no proof to back it up. Are we expected to simply take your word for it and move on? That's not very scientific. 

Bipto was protecting my identity out of respect.

 

It was your secret to tell. My oath is dissolved. 

Edited July 18, 2013 by bipto

[Cotter]

^LOL.  Thx Bipto.

[Guest DWA]

I do have to say:  were I in X, doing what you all are doing there, it would be hard to very significantly care about naysaying.  But that's just me.

 

I'd say that what you are saying you are seeing, thermal or otherwise, I'm good with and want to hear about.  If someone else would like to prove what it is in fact, let 'em knock themselves out.  But it would be nice to see the action and not the excess of verbiage.

[Cotter]

Agreed.  I'm just glad he's sharing his experiences.  Can't wait for the big finale!

[Guest]

I don't see the problem with asking for evidence to back up the claims being made.  For all the hype the NAWAC gets around here you would think there would be more than "believe us we experienced it".  Maybe I have missed it.

 

Don't question the NAWAC!

I understand you have been a member for less than a month, so you might not be aware that this is essentially a continuation of a thread that already spans 124 pages, in which the same few specific questions and accusations have been posted dozens of times. If you read about NAWAC fairly often here, it is probably for the following reasons:

 

-Bipto was the founding member and original proprietor of the Bigfoot Forums.

-Bipto hosts a very popular podcast, The Bigfoot Show, which often discusses NAWAC activities and goals.

-NAWAC is very active and openly discusses the majority of their activities, many groups don't.

-NAWAC has conducted several carefully coordinated operations on a scale never before accomplished in the field.

  (Regardless of whether you think they are chasing shadows or not, they are spending months per year with teams continuously at the location)

 

I've never seen anyone saying "don't question NAWAC". If you have a sincere question, Bipto has been incredibly hospitable in trying to answer folks, I'm sure he will answer it. If you don't get an answer, it's probably because it has been covered ad nauseum in the previous thread. Try using the search feature. How many times can you expect a guy to answer the same questions? This is a thread for people who are curious about the current NAWAC operation. You don't have to believe him to participate, but please be civil for the sake of others who are genuinely interested in their activities. Just a reminder, nobody is forcing you to be here. My two cents....

[Airdale]

 

 

We couldn't accomplish that Cougars are not in OK today because they are in OK today, they are very much at home in OK's near 8m acres of forested land just like they were at home in the pre logging 13m acres of forested land in OK in the 1800's..

 

Again, some people would tend to disagree that there are Cougars in Eastern Oklahoma.  And certainly not breeding populations of them.

 

 

The only documented cases of mountain lions in Oklahoma since 2004 are:

2004 - Radio collared male killed by train near Red Rock, Oklahoma. Came from the Black Hills of South Dakota.

2006 – Cimarron Co. was depredating on an individual’s goats and was killed. Male

2009 – Tillman Co along Red River seen on trail cam on private land. Sex unknown

2009 – Atoka Co. trail cam photo on private land. Sex unknown

2010 – Cimarron Co. lion killed by hunters Male

2010 – Texas Co. Radio collared male released by Colorado Division of Wildlife in North Central Colorado on October   30, 2009 on April 3rd it walked into Oklahoma panhandle. It is now in Northeastern New Mexico.

2011 - Female captured in Tulsa, OK DNA -linked to Black Hills of South Dakota, showed no signs of reproduction.

July 2011 - Unknown sex - Trail cam photo North of Sand Springs Oklahoma.

Oct. 12, 2011 – Osage County - Trail cam photo – Sex unknown – Most likely same animal from July trail cam photo

Oct. 26, 2011 – Osage County – Trail cam Photo – Sex Unknown - Most likely same animal from July trail cam photo

Nov. 8, 2011 - Sub-Adult Male - Minco, Oklahoma hit by motorist on Hwy 81

 

 

http://www.wildlifedepartment.com/hunting/mlion_sight.htm

 I would refer you to "Sasquatch: Legend Meets Science" Chapter 15 entitled "Splitting Hairs and Molecules: DNA and Physical Evidence" for a detailed overview of hair and scat evidence as it stood a decade ago. There is a lot of information out there for anyone in the related fields of science with a modicum of curiosity.

 

 

 

Just point me to the test results.  

 

I just did, you'll have to buy your own copy of the book. The Kindle edition I have is currently $8.89 from Amazon. If you don't have a Kindle e-reader you can download a free app from Amazon for pc, ipad, mac, phone, etc.

[Guest]

I've never seen anyone saying "don't question NAWAC". If you have a sincere question, Bipto has been incredibly hospitable in trying to answer folks, I'm sure he will answer it. 

 

Well, Urklebot said "maybe I have missed it" and he clearly has. I've only answered about five hundred questions (not even counting the same ones that were asked a hundred times each). But whatevs. 

 

 

I read Bipto's first post and thought we were here to discuss the Area X adventures from our own perspectives. 

 

I think there's a difference between discussing things "from our perspectives" and rehashing the same three or four tired asked-and-answered charges that aren't about what we're doing in X and are instead about how there cannot be bigfoot in the state of Oklahoma (or anywhere else). I am not here to debate something I know to be true. I cannot be convinced wood apes are not real. I cannot be convinced they don't exist in X. That would be like convincing you the sun rises in the west. Is there no area for discussion outside of these pointless, off-topic debates? Apparently not, for some. 

Edited July 19, 2013 by bipto

[Sunflower]

Just for the record I saw a healthy, stout male (my guess) in Wayne, Oklahoma back in the mid 70's.  Crossed the road leading into a friend's ranch and gave us a "go to hell" look.  Beautiful animal and sometimes the old guys around that area would call them Cantamount????

[dmaker]

^^ Some convincing evidence would probaby go a long way to countering these pointless off-topic debates. Here's hoping you can come up with some.

[norseman]

^^^^^^

And what evidence would you find convincing?

[dmaker]

Clear photo or video would be a great start.

[Airdale]

 

I've never seen anyone saying "don't question NAWAC". If you have a sincere question, Bipto has been incredibly hospitable in trying to answer folks, I'm sure he will answer it. 

 

Well, Urklebot said "maybe I have missed it" and he clearly has. I've only answered about five hundred questions (not even counting the same ones that were asked a hundred times each). But whatevs. 

 

 

I read Bipto's first post and thought we were here to discuss the Area X adventures from our own perspectives. 

 

I think there's a difference between discussing things "from our our perspectives" and rehashing the same three or four tired asked-and-answered charges that aren't about what we're doing in X and are instead about how there cannot be bigfoot in the state of Oklahoma (or anywhere else). I am not here to debate something I know to be true. I cannot be convinced wood apes are not real. I cannot be convinced they don't exist in X. That would be like convincing you the sun rises in the west. Is there no area for discussion outside of these pointless, off-topic debates? Apparently not, for some. 

 

 

I’ve got to strongly second Brian on this. I understand, accept and respect that there are many people, on the bff and elsewhere, that think all of this is so much baloney. I personally have become convinced otherwise. I was prone to believe for some 45 of my 62 years. The convincing came when something large and strong played pat-a-cake on the outer wall of my home, right under the window in our master bedroom that is above our headboard. After 5 or 6 slaps that had the wall shaking, I heard heavy, rapid bi-pedal footfalls running off down the roughly 6% grade of our back “yardâ€, over broken ground, avoiding large outcroppings of bedrock, trees, bushes, etc. on a dark night. This doesn’t take in to account the creek and steep sided ravine once the “yard†runs out 130 odd feet from the house.

 

I am here to learn whatever I can on the subject as well as share any knowledge I may have with others. I have been thinking for myself for many decades and do not need or appreciate attempts to “convince†me that what I and others have experienced is a bunch of horse hockey. All I ask is the same understanding, acceptance and respect that I grant to others whose life experience leads them to a different outlook on the subject which is the raison d'être of this forum. Thank you.

[dmaker]

Airdale, thanks for sharing your watershed belief moment. I still cannot understand how unidentifed noises in the night become Bigfoot without actually even seeing a large, bipedal animal making the noises. This whole, I don't know what it was, so it's Bigfoot thing is very common and goes a long way to feed the myth. Let me ask you this one question: if there was no such thing as a Bigfoot myth, or story, or construct, or whatever you want to call it, what do you think you would have thought made those noises? Imagine this question being posed to you in a world where no one has ever heard of Bigfoot.

[Guest Urkelbot]

I don't see the problem with asking for evidence to back up the claims being made.  For all the hype the NAWAC gets around here you would think there would be more than "believe us we experienced it".  Maybe I have missed it.

 

Don't question the NAWAC!

I understand you have been a member for less than a month, so you might not be aware that this is essentially a continuation of a thread that already spans 124 pages, in which the same few specific questions and accusations have been posted dozens of times. If you read about NAWAC fairly often here, it is probably for the following reasons:

 

 

I've never seen anyone saying "don't question NAWAC". If you have a sincere question, Bipto has been incredibly hospitable in trying to answer folks, I'm sure he will answer it. If you don't get an answer, it's probably because it has been covered ad nauseum in the previous thread. Try using the search feature. How many times can you expect a guy to answer the same questions? This is a thread for people who are curious about the current NAWAC operation. You don't have to believe him to participate, but please be civil for the sake of others who are genuinely interested in their activities. Just a reminder, nobody is forcing you to be here. My two cents....

I meant it as don't criticize or call into doubt the NAWAC. Every time someone does everyone gets upset.

I started looking through the old threads and it seemed like a lot of sycophantry and getting upset over people doubting Bigfoot.

Is there just a link to a page that lists all the NAWAC evidence laid out in a simple format?