N A W A C - Field Study Discussion

[Airdale]

Then I would postulate that it was a person of immense physical strength, weight and agility (think professional defensive lineman in 350 lbs range), using some type of padded cudgel able to shake the wall without damaging the cedar lap siding, and equipped with high end night vision gear and probably threat level IV body armor that would stop the storm of .308 slugs from my Springfield Armory M1-A Socom-16 likely to follow such an unexpected late night incursion. I also neglected to mention that a gentleman house sitting for my neighbor during the same time frame experienced the same occurrence. He has extensive experience working with primates in laboratory settings studying various behavior. He was not familiar with that type of thing being oft attributed to bf, but was not surprised at all when we discussed it. To paraphrase his response, "Primates commonly engage in behavior that, in humans, we would expect from children or unruly adolescents, such as filling a paper bag with excrement, placing it on someone's porch, setting fire to it then ringing the doorbell and running off".  At the time this happened to me, August of 2009, I had not yet re-entered the bigfoot arena after a forty some year absence, and had never heard of such actions being attributed to the hairy man. I came to the conclusion I have only in the last year or so after immersing in the literature. At the time, in actuality, I backburnered it as it simply made no sense.

[dmaker]

Thanks for the reply. So you were already familiar with Bigfoot when you heard the noises it seems? Furthermore your neighbour confirmed your bias after you spoke with him, and I'm assuming while speaking with him that you mentioned your Bigfoot theory?

So in your mind, there is no other animal on this planet ( rabid NFL players aside) that could have produced these noises? Why not a bear? It seems to me that a bear could make quite a racket if it felt like it, especially since studies prove the human mind is quite suggestive when in a near sleep state. But you remain convinced, I think, based on the bi-pedal aspect of the foot falls?

It seems to me that there could be a very plausible explanation for this that does not invove Bigfoot. It could involve a bear or other large mammal compunded, perhaps, by your possiby mistaken characterization of the footfalls as bi-pedal. Or is that explanation, for you, outside the realm of possibility? And if so, why? If you don't mind?

[Guest]

I started looking through the old threads and it seemed like a lot of sycophantry and getting upset over people doubting Bigfoot..........................

Instead of grazing through, try reading all 124 pages of the thread, every post.

 

Does that sound like too much work to get the answers you seek?

 

Then imagine answering all of those posts; mostly the same few questions and accusations over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over. Imagine continuing to answer people who endlessly rephrase the exact same questions, often in a snarky and interrogatory manner. Then go to the thread entitled "The Echo Incident" and do it all over again. So far I have only mentioned two other threads.

 

And I don't think most folks got upset over anyone doubting Bigfoot. People get upset over trolling and harassment. I may not believe in ghosts, but I wouldn't go to a paranormal forum, and troll the same guy for dozens or hundreds of posts because I don't believe him. That isn't normal social behavior. If the theoretical ghost hunter team had spent years of their lives, and made significant investments in time and money, I wouldn't try to expose the site where they were honestly trying to solve a mystery, so that people could hoax and interfere. I wouldn't do malicious things like try to report them to the IRS, claiming they were acting fraudulently, just because I don't believe in ghosts. I would just state that I don't believe in ghosts and move on.

 

NAWAC aren't the guys trying to get a TV show. They aren't charging people to go on Weekend Bigfoot Ninja School camp outs. They are sincerely trying to solve a mystery, and this is the thread where you can ask about their activities.

.........Is there just a link to a page that lists all the NAWAC evidence laid out in a simple format?

Well, there is the NAWAC website, which has tons of information. There are several very long threads, three of which have been mentioned. There are Powerpoint/video presentations from conferences. There is an entire series of podcasts called the Bigfoot Information Podcast (along with their own website), which detail some specific incidents, as well as general information. Then there are several Bigfoot Show episodes which provide many many hours of information about NAWACS activities and operations. You could literally spend a couple weeks reviewing the information they have released.

 

Dozens of members have cumulatively spent thousands of hours conducting these operations. How would you condense a wide array of potential evidence, sightings, possible sightings, and purported or suspected activities down to one page? Nothing is easy about this. Nothing is easy about this except asking questions and demanding answers.

 

I almost forgot the other easy part..... telling Bipto that he is either wrong, mistaken, or lying....and that there is no other possible explanation....and then coming back day after day to do just that.

Edited July 19, 2013 by Irish73

[the parkie]

Just for the record I saw a healthy, stout male (my guess) in Wayne, Oklahoma back in the mid 70's.  Crossed the road leading into a friend's ranch and gave us a "go to hell" look.  Beautiful animal and sometimes the old guys around that area would call them Cantamount????

 

Hi Sunflower

 

Is the experience you describe here documented or written up anywhere? I would love to hear more about it if you would be willing to tell. I would happily PM you if you prefer.

 

Thanks

[Guest]

Is there just a link to a page that lists all the NAWAC evidence laid out in a simple format?

 

No, this is an internet forum. "Laid out simply" is not its strong suit. 

The convincing came when something large and strong played pat-a-cake on the outer wall of my home, right under the window in our master bedroom that is above our headboard. After 5 or 6 slaps that had the wall shaking, I heard heavy, rapid bi-pedal footfalls running off down the roughly 6% grade of our back “yardâ€, over broken ground, avoiding large outcroppings of bedrock, trees, bushes, etc. on a dark night. 

 

We've experienced exactly the same kind of behavior in X. 

[slabdog]

Ok folks:

I have had to delete a few "off topic" comments that threaten to derail this thread and I have a few more to go.

Listen up!

Last warning.

This is a thread to discuss and debate the NAWAC's research.

Period.

It is not a place to discuss your own past experiences ( unless they are directly related to area X or NAWAC's research) or your past life experiences, or stories about presidents or the never ending debates about skeptics and believers.

Due to some people's inability to follow my staff directive, it's going to take me some time to clean up some posts and do my best to de-de-rail.

I guarantee I will not do so again without substantial warn points and suspensions resulting from violating a staff directive.

Staff does not have time to monitor the thread 24 / 7.

There is no reason to lock this very popular thread.

Simply follow the directive folks.

Feel censored?

Don't..

Simply

- start a new thread or

- find an old one that relates to what you want to say / discuss

[Guest]

So *that's* what it feels like to have a heavy jackboot stepping on your throat. 

 

Kidding! I kid!

[Guest DWA]

Well, I'd be getting there too.  Particularly if I had to wade through page after page NOT about what you are doing in X.

 

Bigfoot skeptics need to recognize one thing:  if you have no evidence that says you are right (and you don't), it has been said here thousands of times...and it's no more right this time.

 

Enjoy the show.  Respect what the thread is about.  And wait for what they bring back.

[Guest DWA]

Then I would postulate that it was a person of immense physical strength, weight and agility (think professional defensive lineman in 350 lbs range), using some type of padded cudgel able to shake the wall without damaging the cedar lap siding, and equipped with high end night vision gear and probably threat level IV body armor that would stop the storm of .308 slugs from my Springfield Armory M1-A Socom-16 likely to follow such an unexpected late night incursion. I also neglected to mention that a gentleman house sitting for my neighbor during the same time frame experienced the same occurrence. He has extensive experience working with primates in laboratory settings studying various behavior. He was not familiar with that type of thing being oft attributed to bf, but was not surprised at all when we discussed it. To paraphrase his response, "Primates commonly engage in behavior that, in humans, we would expect from children or unruly adolescents, such as filling a paper bag with excrement, placing it on someone's porch, setting fire to it then ringing the doorbell and running off".  At the time this happened to me, August of 2009, I had not yet re-entered the bigfoot arena after a forty some year absence, and had never heard of such actions being attributed to the hairy man. I came to the conclusion I have only in the last year or so after immersing in the literature. At the time, in actuality, I backburnered it as it simply made no sense.

This bears further comment, because it bears directly on what is happening in X.

 

Dmaker asked "what would you call this in a world where no one had ever heard of bigfoot?"  Well, that's not really the question, because many have, and they are describing behaviors very, very similar to what you're talking about.  There's considerable evidence - um, which is why teams including scientists are enduring sustained summer weather in X - of a bipedal animal that, well, looks and behaves like a primate, is huge, and from sightings, seems significantly nocturnal.  That is the world we live in, and whether the animal is proven or not is irrelevant.  Fact is, nothing else for which a scrap of evidence exists fits the profile.

 

When X researchers get cabin slaps; rains of rocks; vocalizations that sound like a big primate; sightings of an animal that looks like a big primate; rapid bipedal footfalls in trackless forest, at night without lights; a mortar-pestle rock/nut arrangement far from what humans would call anywhere, looking for all the world like an echo of known chimpanzee behavior...they're supposed to presume, what?  Elk?  Bear?  A trout in the milk?

 

Why would I see a sudden spout in the ocean and first thing say to myself, OK, what would you call that in a world where no one had heard of whales...?

[slabdog]

^^^^ yup. That's why that one stayed. There is a correlation.

Folks...don't be afraid to discuss.

Just don't derail.

[WSA]

Going to show my Reb colors here, but I have to point out again: While the N. woods can be a challenge to navigate in, and I know that from hard experience (i.e., bogs, black flies, slippery slate ledges, scrub spruce "Hells")  there ain't nuttin like the tangle of riotous foliage you get in the kinds of areas where the NAWAC is operating. Unless somebody makes an opening, and keeps it open either by mechanical means or annual burning, it will disappear in one trip around the sun. The main difference is the vines. Those who are drawing from their experience up North need to recalibrate, I'd say. You could clear everything away, burn or chip it, and that would be like pouring fertilizer on it. The image of "all the trees" being cut at some point in the past is just laughable, sorry. These woods are like the ocean, as an old timer once said to me, and the image stuck in my mind. You have no idea what swims there until something is right in your face (or bites your leg off). Jungle is not too strong a description. Believe it, or come down here and experience it for yourself.

 

I should also add...if you are not familiar with the arc of the Southern Longleaf Pine forest in the American South, the annual land burning habits of Natives and how this ecosystem has been transformed in the last couple of centuries, I'd just say this subject is crucial.

Edited July 19, 2013 by WSA

[Guest]

These woods are like the ocean, as an old timer once said to me, and the image stuck in my mind. You have no idea what swims there until something is right in your face (or bites your leg off). Jungle is not too strong a description.

 

I love that.

[WSA]

Ain't it the truth? We were on the subject of what might be in the woods or N.E. Ga. at the time, and knew better than anyone. That just nailed it for me. 

[Guest DWA]

Going to show my Reb colors here, but I have to point out again: While the N. woods can be a challenge to navigate in, and I know that from hard experience (i.e., bogs, black flies, slippery slate ledges, scrub spruce "Hells")  there ain't nuttin like the tangle of riotous foliage you get in the kinds of areas where the NAWAC is operating. Unless somebody makes an opening, and keeps it open either by mechanical means or annual burning, it will disappear in one trip around the sun. The main difference is the vines. Those who are drawing from their experience up North need to recalibrate, I'd say. You could clear everything away, burn or chip it, and that would be like pouring fertilizer on it. The image of "all the trees" being cut at some point in the past is just laughable, sorry. These woods are like the ocean, as an old timer once said to me, and the image stuck in my mind. You have no idea what swims there until something is right in your face (or bites your leg off). Jungle is not too strong a description. Believe it, or come down here and experience it for yourself.

 

I should also add...if you are not familiar with the arc of the Southern Longleaf Pine forest in the American South, the annual land burning habits of Natives and how this ecosystem has been transformed in the last couple of centuries, I'd just say this subject is crucial.

Um, yeah.

 

I didn't have time to hike much on the Talimena Drive.  But a hiker is gonna step out of that car.  I did; moseyed down the trail, and did what I do, did the thing that turned me into a bushwhacker in the first place:  looked off the trail and speculated what's over there...?  Well, there was no "over there."  I just looked at what was in front of my face.  Most days I am not doing fifty feet, much less fifty yards, of that.  But yeah, I have, many times, because something that was nice and open turned into, well, hundreds of yards, miles, of that.

 

And that is my standard-issue response to most every foot of trail I have done in the Great Smoky Mountains:  I don't need to step one foot into what's off the trail.  And the only times I've done it there have been on "manways," where your feet can feel something that goes somewhere, even when from the hips up you can't.

 

Anyone who thinks that it is zippedydodah to do primate science in this stuff needs to talk to primate field researchers and stop talking about bowhunting stupid stuff like deer, for which hunting techniques have been well known and shared for centuries and the deer haven't smartened up yet.

Edited July 19, 2013 by DWA

[WSA]

And we know that bagging a deer is NEVER going to be easy, no matter the conditions, especially if you're handicapping the deer by using a primitive bow. My hat is off to anyone who can do that. Drew's stalking prowess, which is probably considerable, would be a valuable skill for any BF researcher. The transition to S. woods might take some time, but I would have to think he would have the basics down.